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Author Topic: John Salza leaves SSPX and returns to Novus Ordo  (Read 33898 times)

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Offline Ladislaus

  • Supporter
Re: John Salza leaves SSPX and returns to Novus Ordo
« Reply #15 on: October 17, 2020, 09:59:52 AM »
Quote from: Stubborn on October 17, 2020, 05:31:10 AM
But understand if you can that Catholic sensibility does not now, nor has it ever drawn any priest or lay person toward concluding that they are illegitimate, rather, I would say like the pioneering Catholics, that venturing into that arena is due to a lack of Catholic sensibility. It may be some other sensibility, but it's not Catholic sensibility.          

In standing up a concept of the Church where it's OK for Catholics to reject Catholic teaching authority, to reject the Mass used by the Church, to practically ignore everything that comes out of the Vatican, you've completely lost your sensus Catholicus and differ very little from Old Catholics and even Protestants.

This is one of the biggest fallouts of the Crisis, to watch R&R fall away from belief in the prerogatives of the Church and slouch away from the faith.

Apart from how someone like a Fr. Chazal has articulated the situation, the rest are losing your grip on Catholicism, especially you, Stubborn; you have articulated a position that simply cannot be recognized as Catholic.
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Offline Stubborn

  • Supporter
Re: John Salza leaves SSPX and returns to Novus Ordo
« Reply #16 on: October 17, 2020, 10:55:42 AM »
Quote from: Ladislaus on October 17, 2020, 09:59:52 AM
In standing up a concept of the Church where it's OK for Catholics to reject Catholic teaching authority, to reject the Mass used by the Church, to practically ignore everything that comes out of the Vatican, you've completely lost your sensus Catholicus and differ very little from Old Catholics and even Protestants.

This is one of the biggest fallouts of the Crisis, to watch R&R fall away from belief in the prerogatives of the Church and slouch away from the faith.

Apart from how someone like a Fr. Chazal has articulated the situation, the rest are losing your grip on Catholicism, especially you, Stubborn; you have articulated a position that simply cannot be recognized as Catholic.
1) "A concept of the Church"? 2) "Catholic sensibility"? 3) "Prerogatives of the Church"? All 3 in a nutshell = growing and persevering in and handing down the faith, always comes before and over all human authority. This, you claim, "simply cannot be recognized as Catholic". Amazing.

Deciding the legitimacy of popes, aside from being impossible and altogether unnecessary to achieve the above 3 points,  never even enters into the equation yet doing this, you claim, is Catholic sensibility.

Your cry is that of R&R being disobedient, which is the same cry used against the faithful by the unknowing and the Church's enemies since the revolution began.  Same o same o.
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Offline DecemRationis

  • Supporter
Re: John Salza leaves SSPX and returns to Novus Ordo
« Reply #17 on: October 17, 2020, 11:33:22 AM »
Quote from: Ladislaus on October 17, 2020, 09:59:52 AM
In standing up a concept of the Church where it's OK for Catholics to reject Catholic teaching authority, to reject the Mass used by the Church, to practically ignore everything that comes out of the Vatican, you've completely lost your sensus Catholicus and differ very little from Old Catholics and even Protestants.

This is one of the biggest fallouts of the Crisis, to watch R&R fall away from belief in the prerogatives of the Church and slouch away from the faith.

Apart from how someone like a Fr. Chazal has articulated the situation, the rest are losing your grip on Catholicism, especially you, Stubborn; you have articulated a position that simply cannot be recognized as Catholic.

The glaring problem of R & R is holding to a pre-Vatican II "belief in the prerogatives of the Church" - which necessarily implicates certain prerogatives of the living Magisterium of the Church - while acknowledging a reality that either blows those prerogatives to shreds or tears gaping holes in them. 

This is the contradiction that plagues R & R, and makes it, for all its otherwise honest accountings, an inadequate explanation for the crisis.  It retreats from and refuses to go forward to the next, logical step in the analysis: something was awry in the understanding of the "beliefs in the prerogatives of the Church" pre-Vatican II. 
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Offline Pax Vobis

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Re: John Salza leaves SSPX and returns to Novus Ordo
« Reply #18 on: October 17, 2020, 01:36:52 PM »
All of you arguing about R&R vs Sedevacantism are missing the point.  Just as no Catholic leaves the Church for Protestantism/atheism because of doctrine or theology (99% of the time it's because they want to escape Catholic morality), nobody leaves Traditionalism for the indult because of theology/doctrine (i.e. R&R vs Sedevacantism).  The reason Trads leave the True Faith for the fake 'indult faith' is because of the 3 dangers we all must face - the world, flesh and the devil.
.
So the usual temptations that Trads face are
1) Being considered "extreme" or rigorist (i.e. peer/social/family pressures...temptations of the world)
2) Dating/morality/marriage temptations (i.e. temptations of the flesh).
3) Temptations to despair, feeling alone in your Fauth, feeling abandoned by God/Church, etc  (temptations from the devil)
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Offline SeanJohnson

Re: John Salza leaves SSPX and returns to Novus Ordo
« Reply #19 on: October 17, 2020, 01:55:03 PM »
Quote from: Ladislaus on October 17, 2020, 09:59:52 AM
In standing up a concept of the Church where it's OK for Catholics to reject Catholic teaching authority, to reject the Mass used by the Church, to practically ignore everything that comes out of the Vatican, you've completely lost your sensus Catholicus and differ very little from Old Catholics and even Protestants.

This is one of the biggest fallouts of the Crisis, to watch R&R fall away from belief in the prerogatives of the Church and slouch away from the faith.

Apart from how someone like a Fr. Chazal has articulated the situation, the rest are losing your grip on Catholicism, especially you, Stubborn; you have articulated a position that simply cannot be recognized as Catholic.

Typical sede thinking:

Black/white, either/or.  

No nuancing (that’s a compromise!), no exceptions or causes excusing from obedience.

No necessity.

Yawn...
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