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Author Topic: ++Vigano Conference: City of the Devil  (Read 1751 times)

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Offline Stubborn

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Re: ++Vigano Conference: City of the Devil
« Reply #15 on: October 27, 2020, 02:00:10 PM »
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  • I absolutely disagree with this. Have you listened to his speech? He may not be operating with the SSPX-MC or CMRI, but that doesn't qualify him as not a "true trad". And I'm sorry to say, but if you think that any of us are beyond liberal brainwashing influence, then I don't know what to tell you.
    A few things he's mentioned:

    -Untold Praise for +ABL's foresight and fight
    -Condemn's VII for what it truly was- a robber council
    -Calls out the "deep church"
    I get it. This Churchman doesn't see eye-to-eye with your every view and synopsis of the Crisis. But trads need to show a little humility and admit they don't have all the answers and have it all figured out. We're pretty good at eating our own, I think that history has more than proven that.
    There IS a reason that trads have a reputation for a lack of charity. It ain't all made up by liberal Catholics, let me tell you.
    We need to have humility. We need to admit that we may not have all the answers, and be weary of those who propose to. If you're a sedevecantist, maybe I'm not speaking to you as much and I guess you shouldn't be reading this anyways. But for the rest of us, I'm not saying this is the Restoration of the Church. But it's a step in the right direction.

    Also, I get condemning "trad-cuмenism". But I've seen no evidence of anyone one at Matt's convention is relinquishing  their values or positions for the sake of "trad-cuмenism". Perhaps, just perhaps, they realize the necessity of Catholic unity. Much as is sometimes found on this website. We don't condemn ourselves of Tradcuмenism here, yet sedevecantists, sedeprivationists, CMRI-SSPX-SSPXMC-SSPV-FSSP goers all agree in some sort of unity.
    Alright, off my soapbox. Let'er rip!
    No, you don't get it because that's not what I'm saying at all. The things he says are all fine and good and needs to be said.

    I'd like to ask him who is he preaching too and why isn't he saying these things directly to the pope and the conciliar hierarchy? THAT'S what we need, at least try to light some type of fire under them to wake them up. Him preaching to the sheep is always right and good, but he is in the unique position to petition or speak with some authority to the pope and his equals - and actually be heard. Has he said why he is not doing that?   
    "But Peter and the apostles answering, said: We ought to obey God, rather than men." - Acts 5:29

    The Highest Principle in the Church: "We are first of all under obedience to God, and only then under obedience to man" - Fr. Hesse


    Offline claudel

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    Re: ++Vigano Conference: City of the Devil
    « Reply #16 on: October 27, 2020, 02:41:08 PM »
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  • … he is in the unique position to petition or speak with some authority to the pope and his equals - and actually be heard. Has he said why he is not doing that?

    I'm afraid you have got your tenses a bit muddled here, Stubborn. For the ten years prior to 2018, ++Viganò was well positioned to address the pope and his senior prelates, and he did so with regularity and with rather more bluntness, especially with regard to financial "irregularities" and sɛҳuąƖ corruption, than Benedict and those around him thought seemly. As a "reward" for his service, ++Viganò was moved out of the inner circle of Vatican City administration and made papal nuncio to the USA. When he continued to "misbehave" here, especially when his warnings about McCarrick and others were insultingly ignored, his pro forma resignation in 2016, required of all prelates at the age of seventy-five, was promptly accepted by Francis. Then in 2018—once, that is, the archbishop had located a place of seclusion from which, with the help of a few trusted associates, he could reveal what he knew without being "ѕυιcιdєd"—++Viganò went public with his inside knowledge of Vatican activities over the prior twenty-five years.

    In short, everyone in the pope's inner circle has long been familiar with what the archbishop has to say. He himself has made plain that his target audience consists of what we at CathInfo might call those still-deluded neo-Catholics who haven't yet awakened to the fact that the religion they espouse is no longer the religion of their parents and ancestors. The fact that ++Viganò hasn't made a great deal of headway is a sad tribute to the diabolical success of the conciliar revolution.


    Offline songbird

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    Re: ++Vigano Conference: City of the Devil
    « Reply #17 on: October 27, 2020, 10:47:30 PM »
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  • Will Vigano say the traditional Mass, the true Mass for all time?

    Offline Stubborn

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    Re: ++Vigano Conference: City of the Devil
    « Reply #18 on: October 28, 2020, 04:32:12 AM »
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  • I'm afraid you have got your tenses a bit muddled here, Stubborn. For the ten years prior to 2018, ++Viganò was well positioned to address the pope and his senior prelates, and he did so with regularity and with rather more bluntness, especially with regard to financial "irregularities" and sɛҳuąƖ corruption, than Benedict and those around him thought seemly. As a "reward" for his service, ++Viganò was moved out of the inner circle of Vatican City administration and made papal nuncio to the USA. When he continued to "misbehave" here, especially when his warnings about McCarrick and others were insultingly ignored, his pro forma resignation in 2016, required of all prelates at the age of seventy-five, was promptly accepted by Francis. Then in 2018—once, that is, the archbishop had located a place of seclusion from which, with the help of a few trusted associates, he could reveal what he knew without being "ѕυιcιdєd"—++Viganò went public with his inside knowledge of Vatican activities over the prior twenty-five years.

    In short, everyone in the pope's inner circle has long been familiar with what the archbishop has to say. He himself has made plain that his target audience consists of what we at CathInfo might call those still-deluded neo-Catholics who haven't yet awakened to the fact that the religion they espouse is no longer the religion of their parents and ancestors. The fact that ++Viganò hasn't made a great deal of headway is a sad tribute to the diabolical success of the conciliar revolution.
    I didn't know this, thanks for this claudel.
    "But Peter and the apostles answering, said: We ought to obey God, rather than men." - Acts 5:29

    The Highest Principle in the Church: "We are first of all under obedience to God, and only then under obedience to man" - Fr. Hesse

    Offline Maria Auxiliadora

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    Re: ++Vigano Conference: City of the Devil
    « Reply #19 on: October 28, 2020, 03:39:39 PM »
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  • Will Vigano say the traditional Mass, the true Mass for all time?


    Not only he does the traditional Roman rite but he has this to say about Summorum Pontificuм and the Liturgy in general (red emphasis my own):


    Quote
    https://remnantnewspaper.com/web/index.php/articles/item/5124-archbishop-vigano-addresses-the-catholic-identity-conference-2020-francis-the-new-world-order
    [The Church’s sense of inferiority and failure before the world created the “perfect storm” for the revolution to take root in the Council Fathers and by extension in the Christian people, in whom obedience to the Hierarchy had been cultivated perhaps more than fidelity to the depositum fidei. Let me it be clear: obedience to the Sacred Pastors is certainly praiseworthy if the commands are legitimate. But obedience ceases to be a virtue and, in fact, becomes servility if it is an end in itself and if it contradicts the purpose to which it is ordained, namely Faith and Morals. We should add, that this sense of inferiority was introduced into the ecclesial body with displays of great theater, such as the removal of the tiara by Paul VI, the return of the Ottoman flagship banners conquered at Lepanto, the flaunted ecuмenical embraces with the schismatic Athenagoras, the requests for forgiveness for the Crusades, the abolition of the Index, the Clergy’s focus on the poor in place to the alleged triumphalism of Pius XII. The coup de grâce of this attitude was codified in the Reformed Liturgy, which manifests its embarrassment of Catholic dogma by silencing it – and thus denying it indirectly. The ritual change engendered a doctrinal change, which led the faithful to believe that the Mass is a simple fraternal banquet and that the Most Holy Eucharist is merely a symbol of Christ’s presence among us.]




    Quote
    [In the civil sphere, the deep state has managed political and social dissent by using organizations and movements that are only apparently opposition, but which are actually instrumental to maintaining power. Similarly, in the ecclesial sphere, the deep church uses the moderate “conservatives” to give an appearance of offering freedom to the faithful. The Motu Proprio Summorum Pontificuм itself, for example, while granting the celebration in the extraordinary form, demands saltem impliciter [at least implicitly] that we accept the Council and recognize the lawfulness of the reformed liturgy. This ploy prevents those who benefit from the Motu Proprio from raising any objection, or they risk the dissolution of the Ecclesia Dei communities. And it instills in the Christian people the dangerous idea that a good thing, in order to have legitimacy in the Church and society, must necessarily be accompanied by a bad thing or at least something less good. However, only a misguided mind would seek to afford equal rights to both good and evil. It matters little if one is personally in favor of good, when he recognizes the legitimacy of those who are in favor of evil. In this sense, the “freedom to choose” abortion theorized by democratic politicians finds its counterbalance in the no less aberrant “religious freedom” theorized by the Council, which today is stubbornly defended by the anti-church. If it is not permissible for a Catholic to support a politician who defends the right to abortion, it is even less permissible to approve a Prelate who defends the “freedom” of an individual to endanger his immortal soul by “choosing” to remain in mortal sin. This is not mercy; this is gross dereliction of spiritual duty before God in order to curry the favor and approval of Man.

    The love of God be your motivation, the will of God your guiding principle, the glory of God your goal.
    (St. Clement Mary Hofbauer)


    Offline songbird

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    Re: ++Vigano Conference: City of the Devil
    « Reply #20 on: October 28, 2020, 04:22:00 PM »
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  • What mass does he say? Indult? Is Vigano new order? I don't picture him as Pius X.

    Offline Nadir

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    Re: ++Vigano Conference: City of the Devil
    « Reply #21 on: October 29, 2020, 04:49:00 AM »
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  • Will Vigano say the traditional Mass, the true Mass for all time?
    What mass does he say? Indult? Is Vigano new order? I don't picture him as Pius X.
    Quote
    Why, oh Why do some people wait til they are old and gray, retired, and then say oh, the Church is the City of  the Devil?

    Viagno just yaks and yaks and what is his solution?  Why does he say, oh, for 60 years... and where was he in those 60 years?  Does he go to confession to say oh, I am so sorry for serving the demons for 60 years?

    So, what is all his yacking about!  Does he have life to give to the people, for their souls, with any kind of sacrament called, Precious Blood?  No. He talks like a politician.  Then he has nothing to offer the souls of man, not even his own.  So, very strange!
    Songbird, I suggest that you actually read with an open mind what has been posted on ++Vigano, and and then watch the video posted by Maria Auxiliadora, (making sure you turn on the subtitles because his pronunciation of certain English words is not perfect) and most of your questions will be answered.
    Help of Christians, guard our land from assault or inward stain,
    Let it be what God has planned, His new Eden where You reign.

    Offline songbird

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    Re: ++Vigano Conference: City of the Devil
    « Reply #22 on: October 29, 2020, 11:26:26 AM »
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  • Vigano apologizes But what Mass does he say?  He still see Ratzinger as ok? 

    I do recall the politics of "apologies".  Even at his age, what Mass does he say?


    Offline songbird

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    Re: ++Vigano Conference: City of the Devil
    « Reply #23 on: October 29, 2020, 02:07:16 PM »
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  • I pray he had a valid confessor.

    Offline Nadir

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    Re: ++Vigano Conference: City of the Devil
    « Reply #24 on: October 29, 2020, 02:45:53 PM »
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  • Songbird, I suggest that you actually read with an open mind what has been posted on ++Vigano, and and then watch the video posted by Maria Auxiliadora, (making sure you turn on the subtitles because his pronunciation of certain English words is not perfect) and most of your questions will be answered.
    Did you miss this, Songbird? 
    Nobody else can do your homework for you.
    Help of Christians, guard our land from assault or inward stain,
    Let it be what God has planned, His new Eden where You reign.

    Offline PAT317

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    Re: ++Vigano Conference: City of the Devil
    « Reply #25 on: October 29, 2020, 03:27:56 PM »
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  • Did you miss this, Songbird?
    Nobody else can do your homework for you.
    Exactly.
    Especially since it seems like this came up some months ago, and she was answered, and apparently didn't read the answers and/or didn't do her homework.