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Author Topic: John Salza leaves SSPX and returns to Novus Ordo  (Read 33991 times)

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Offline Pax Vobis

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Re: John Salza leaves SSPX and returns to Novus Ordo
« Reply #275 on: October 22, 2020, 05:46:38 PM »
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Now certainly I agree that the fathers at Trent *would have* defended the validity of non Tridentine Rites (such as the Eastern Rite of Mass) but I doubt they were even considering the idea of someone saying *only some* rites are valid.  Rather they were condemning protestants who were invalidating all rites of mass.

Correct.  Trent was, as were all councils, concerned with doctrine.  Trent was concerned with the Protestant heresies and protecting the Faith. 
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Quo Primum was concerned with the liturgy; it is an "internal memo" of the Church, to deal only with its liturgy.  It had nothing to do with Protestantism, except for the fact that the protestant heresy highlighted the need for uniformity.  While the liturgy is an expression of doctrine, the liturgy is a separate entity.
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Quo Primum specifically allows Eastern rites that were over 200+ years old at the time of 1571 to continue, since these rites are part of the Traditions of the Church.  Any rites that were less than 200 yrs old at the time of 1571 were deemed "new" and had to conform to the Tridentine norms.  The whole purpose of Quo Primum was to streamline the Latin Rite so that the Church could pray "as one", using one rite.  The old, ancient Eastern rites were not affected by Quo Primum, because they are Apostolic in nature.  They are also substantially and essentially the same as the Latin rite, and their use is much, much smaller than the latin rite, so there was no need for correction, since the Eastern rites did not experience the same degree of "creativity" as did the Latin rite.

Offline Pax Vobis

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Re: John Salza leaves SSPX and returns to Novus Ordo
« Reply #276 on: October 22, 2020, 05:49:47 PM »

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A collection of rubrics... on the saying of a Mass. Saying that the Church can licitly issue missals and order them to be used, while also saying that the actual Mass itself is somehow illicit and not a Mass of the Church, is тαℓмυdist nonsense.

The underlined is your logical mistake.  There is no "order" than any catholic has to say/attend/accept/use/agree with/etc the new mass.  It is a completely optional liturgy.  There is no pain of sin and no loss of heaven for a catholic to ignore the new mass.  No church official has ever said otherwise.


Offline Pax Vobis

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Re: John Salza leaves SSPX and returns to Novus Ordo
« Reply #277 on: October 22, 2020, 05:51:04 PM »

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I don't know how you define "Tridentine" but there were certainly at the least Eastern liturgies like the Divine liturgy of St Chrysostom being said by uniates that predated Trent.

If you read Quo Primum, it specifically says that it applies to the Latin rite only, with liturgies more than 200 yrs old in 1571 not affected by the law.

Offline Pax Vobis

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Re: John Salza leaves SSPX and returns to Novus Ordo
« Reply #278 on: October 22, 2020, 05:53:30 PM »
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It did not and no there was not only one rite of Mass. Trent explicitly went out of its way to say it was preserving rites in use for more than 200 years at that time.

You are correct.  I misspoke.  But my point still stands.  The whole purpose of Trent was to fight Protestantism...it was not to define the liturgical parameters which a pope must follow 500 yrs later in 1960.  Quo Primum's purpose was to define liturgical parameters.

Offline Pax Vobis

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Re: John Salza leaves SSPX and returns to Novus Ordo
« Reply #279 on: October 22, 2020, 05:54:48 PM »

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It does not.

Speaking of the Latin rite, yes, Quo Primum forbids all liturgies which aren't Tridentine.  The only exceptions are for rites 200+ yrs old at the time of 1571.