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Author Topic: John Salza leaves SSPX and returns to Novus Ordo  (Read 33852 times)

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Offline Quo vadis Domine

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Re: John Salza leaves SSPX and returns to Novus Ordo
« Reply #25 on: October 18, 2020, 08:39:50 AM »
All of you arguing about R&R vs Sedevacantism are missing the point.  Just as no Catholic leaves the Church for Protestantism/atheism because of doctrine or theology (99% of the time it's because they want to escape Catholic morality), nobody leaves Traditionalism for the indult because of theology/doctrine (i.e. R&R vs Sedevacantism).  The reason Trads leave the True Faith for the fake 'indult faith' is because of the 3 dangers we all must face - the world, flesh and the devil.
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So the usual temptations that Trads face are
1) Being considered "extreme" or rigorist (i.e. peer/social/family pressures...temptations of the world)
2) Dating/morality/marriage temptations (i.e. temptations of the flesh).
3) Temptations to despair, feeling alone in your Fauth, feeling abandoned by God/Church, etc  (temptations from the devil)
Excellent point. 

Offline Quo vadis Domine

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Re: John Salza leaves SSPX and returns to Novus Ordo
« Reply #26 on: October 18, 2020, 09:01:00 AM »
I believe this is quite true for your average lay Traditional Catholic ... but not for a Salza and not for most priests.  I myself went through the same process in seminary that many priests and seminarians did.  You start off as a Traditional Catholic mostly by recognizing how contrary Conciliar Catholicism is to Tradition.  You tend not to go too deep into it.  Stubborn is still at this phase.  But then you start studying Traditional Catholic theology, in particular ecclesiology, and it hits you in the face how contrary to Tradition R&R really is.  Then you’re faced with a choice to resolve this somehow.  Those who did not experience such an intellectual process were, quite frankly, either somewhat dull-witted, or just didn’t care much about “theology”, writing it off as irrelevant compared to learning how to say Mass or give sermons or hear Confessions.  You’ll notice that sedevacantists tend to be the brightest seminarians and priests.
Although I agree with much of this and I also agree that most *scholarly* priests are *somewhat* resistant to this, remember that *NO ONE* is immune to this.


Offline Stubborn

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Re: John Salza leaves SSPX and returns to Novus Ordo
« Reply #27 on: October 18, 2020, 09:28:04 AM »
This is at least a terribly inaccurate summary of the history of the traditional Catholic movement.  Francis Shuckhardt and all the people with him were already sede in 1967....
Yes, I purposely did not mention Schuckardt due to the colossal tragedy he brought to the whole situation - which btw, him and his group were wholly condemned since their inception by nearly all the faithful in those days, including by +Sanborn himself, right from the pulpit before he lost it. 
     

Offline Stubborn

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Re: John Salza leaves SSPX and returns to Novus Ordo
« Reply #28 on: October 18, 2020, 09:51:25 AM »
I believe this is quite true for your average lay Traditional Catholic ... but not for a Salza and not for most priests.  I myself went through the same process in seminary that many priests and seminarians did.  You start off as a Traditional Catholic mostly by recognizing how contrary Conciliar Catholicism is to Tradition.  You tend not to go too deep into it.  Stubborn is still at this phase.  But then you start studying Traditional Catholic theology, in particular ecclesiology, and it hits you in the face how contrary to Tradition R&R really is.  Then you’re faced with a choice to resolve this somehow.  Those who did not experience such an intellectual process were, quite frankly, either somewhat dull-witted, or just didn’t care much about “theology”, writing it off as irrelevant compared to learning how to say Mass or give sermons or hear Confessions.  You’ll notice that sedevacantists tend to be the brightest seminarians and priests.
See, this is something you, for whatever reason refuse to see. Who here does not know that it was the learned, the trained scholars, the trained and knowledgeable clergy, hierarchy and theologians who "experienced such an intellectual process" and are the ones consistently responsible for starting all errors and heresies throughout the history of the Church - reference V2 itself.

To you, all those who ignore the popes' heresies and errors, strive to simply keep and grow in the faith and are not deciding the status of popes, you dub them to be in "a position that simply cannot be recognized as Catholic". What you fail to recognize is that you, being one like those above who "experienced such an intellectual process"  only further the disedifying divisiveness among the faithful with your brand of intellectual process. To be blunt, somewhere along the line you learned error and are promoting that error as being Catholic.  

What I posted in my first post in this thread is real, it actually happened, it is not some speculation or theory - it happened, and among those who strive to remain faithful to the true Church and faith in this crisis, it will continue for as long as this crisis continues because simply, *that* is the Catholic thing to do. 

 


 

Offline Meg

Re: John Salza leaves SSPX and returns to Novus Ordo
« Reply #29 on: October 18, 2020, 12:09:15 PM »
You’ll notice that sedevacantists tend to be the brightest seminarians and priests.

According to whom are they the brightest, and in what manner, in particular? Might not this attitude bring about a certain amount of pride?

I have to wonder if the sedevacantists and their fellow travellers believe that they are somehow VERY special, or favored by God, in order to somehow save the Catholic Faith. Kind of like the pentacostals or charismatics, who believe that they are in direct contact with God.