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Author Topic: Italy: Meeting of Superiors of the Society of St. Pius X  (Read 18253 times)

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Offline Ethelred

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Italy: Meeting of Superiors of the Society of St. Pius X
« Reply #30 on: October 08, 2011, 02:29:45 AM »
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  • Quote from: Telesphorus
    Negotiations are kept secret. There's no need to keep one's doctrinal positions secret, or the doctrinal positions of one's adversaries. There's only a need to keep negotiations secret, so people can't object until it's too late.

    +1


    Offline SeanJohnson

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    Italy: Meeting of Superiors of the Society of St. Pius X
    « Reply #31 on: October 08, 2011, 11:52:24 AM »
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  •    Bishop Williamson is not at Albano for the meetings.
    Rom 5: 20 - "But where sin increased, grace abounded all the more."


    Offline Ethelred

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    Italy: Meeting of Superiors of the Society of St. Pius X
    « Reply #32 on: October 08, 2011, 01:01:18 PM »
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  • Quote from: Seraphim
      Bishop Williamson is not at Albano for the meetings.


    Excellent news.
    So they can't use Bishop Williamson as fig-leaf for their betrayal of Archbishop Lefebvre.

    Thanks Seraphim.
     
    God bless Bishop Williamson!

    Offline hollingsworth

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    Italy: Meeting of Superiors of the Society of St. Pius X
    « Reply #33 on: October 08, 2011, 01:41:59 PM »
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  • Ethelred:
    Quote
    So they can't use Bishop Williamson as fig-leaf for their betrayal of Archbishop Lefebvre.


    Good point.  I think they've got a problem. The SSPX leaders met behind closed doors in Albano, in order, apparently, to study and take a closer look at the infamous "Preamble."  That meeting having ended, they're planning to scrutinize the docuмent even more closely into the indefinite future.  Of course, we stillknow really nothing of its contents; and Fr. Rostand and other leaders do not hesitate to tell the faithful that it's none of their business.  You have to  wonder at this point what kind of story Fellay & Co. may be trying to concoct for eventual release to the press.  You can't keep that 'poker face' on forever.  You can't match and raise indefinitely.  Somebody's got to call their hand eventually.  And I have a strange feeling, after all is said and done, that the SSPX is not even holding a pair.

    Offline SeanJohnson

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    Italy: Meeting of Superiors of the Society of St. Pius X
    « Reply #34 on: October 08, 2011, 02:27:50 PM »
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  •    And you should see some of the mental gymnastics being employed by indultarians over at Rorate Coeli in their feeble attempts to explain and/or justify Bishop WIlliamson's absence.

       Worth a few chuckles.
    Rom 5: 20 - "But where sin increased, grace abounded all the more."


    Offline John Grace

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    Italy: Meeting of Superiors of the Society of St. Pius X
    « Reply #35 on: October 13, 2011, 05:15:26 AM »
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  • Bishop Williamson 'Eleison Comments' from August 2010.

    Quote
    ELEISON COMMENTS CLXII (Aug.21, 2010) : DISCUSSIONS BLIND-SIDED ?

    While the Rome-Society of St Pius X discussions are, by accounts from both sides, running into a doctrinal brick wall, reports from France and Germany together with a rumour from Rome spell danger for Catholics. That danger is a political deal which would simply go round the side of the doctrinal blockage. Politics threaten to circuмvent doctrine.

    From France and Germany, I was told me a few weeks ago that a large proportion of Catholics attending SSPX Mass centres are only hoping and waiting for some agreement to come out of the discussions. If - repeat, if -- this is true, it is very serious. Such Catholics may get full marks for wishing not to be cut off from what appears to be Rome, but they get low marks for not grasping that as long as the discussions remain doctrinal, there is no way in which the neo-modernist teaching of Vatican II can be reconciled with the Catholic doctrine of the true Church. Such Catholics may venerate and love Archbishop Lefebvre as they see him, but they have not understood what he was all about. They had best wake up if they are not in one way or another to fall into the arms of the neo-modernist Romans.

    Agreement in front of doctrine means politics before religion, unity before truth, man before God. God before man means truth before unity, religion before politics and doctrine being more important than any non-doctrinal agreement. Only dreamers could not foresee the Rome-SSPX discussions running into a doctrinal brick wall. Only politicians can wish for any non-doctrinal agreement to come out of them.

    Alas, to all appearances Benedict XVI sincerely believes in the Newchurch of Vatican II which is to unite in its bosom all men absolutely, regardless of whether they believe or not in the one true doctrine of the Faith. Therefore he sincerely wishes to gather in the SSPX as well - and he does not normally have too much longer to live ! So the blockage of doctrinal discussions should not unduly worry him. He must be looking to cut a political deal with the SSPX, in order to unite it with the rest of the Newchurch. It follows that he must ask of the SSPX neither too much, or it would refuse the deal, nor too little, because then the rest of the Newchurch would rise up in protest.

    The rumour from Rome is precisely that he is thinking of a "Motu Proprio" which would accept the SSPX "back into the Church" once and for all, yet require from the SSPX no explicit acceptance of Vatican II or the New Mass, but only, for instance, the acceptance of John-Paul II's 1992 "Catechism of the Catholic Church", which is substantially modernist but in a quiet way. Thus the SSPX would not appear to its followers to be accepting the Council or the New Mass, yet it would be softly, softly, beginning to go along with the substance of neo-modernism.

    Thus all seekers of unity would be content. Only not believers in Catholic doctrine.

    DANGER !

    Kyrie eleison.

    Offline John Grace

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    Italy: Meeting of Superiors of the Society of St. Pius X
    « Reply #36 on: October 14, 2011, 03:59:53 PM »
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  • ELEISON  COMMENTS  CXCIV (April 2, 2011) :  NOW  WHERE ?

    Quote
    If, as seems to be the case, the doctrinal discussions over the last year and a half between Rome and the SSPX have persuaded neither Rome to convert nor the SSPX to betray, then the question arises, where do we go from here ?  Surely the crisis of Vatican II proved if anything the need for Catholics to do some thinking for themselves on such a question, and not just follow their leaders blindly - are not millions of Catholics still being softly led into apostasy ?  That is why to the bishops of the SSPX a fighting Gaul puts a threefold question, surely serious enough to deserve an answer (his questions are abbreviated and adapted) :--


    In your opinion, does the recent announcement of Assisi III, solemn commemoration of John-Paul II's ecuмenical encounter of various religions held in Assisi 25 years ago, add anything new to what we already know of the ecuмenical course being followed by Benedict XVI ?

    Answer : It is one more proof that the Church leadership in Rome is intent upon persevering along the disastrous path of giving official Catholic approval to all sorts of false religions. "I do not think we can say," Archbishop Lefebvre once said, "that Rome has not lost the Faith."


    In your opinion, does this announcement prove or disprove the opportuneness of doctrinal discussions being undertaken between the SSPX and Rome ?   Answer : It surely proves the opportuneness of their coming to an end. While they were going on, they did have collateral advantages, well enumerated by Bishop de Galarreta (see EC 156, July 10, 2010). However, their mere taking place at all also had the disadvantage of creating in souls either false hopes or true fears of a pseudo-reconciliation between doctrinal positions which are, in reality, absolutely irreconcilable. The announcement of Assisi III has helped to put an end to such hopes and fears, at least for the moment - but dreamers cling to their dreams !


    Just as Assisi I was a major incentive for Archbishop Lefebvre to consecrate four bishops in 1988, should the announcement of Assisi III be encouraging the SSPX to consecrate more bishops ?   Answer : The SSPX's Superior General answered this question two months ago in the USA. He said that if the circuмstances of 1988 which drove the Archbishop to consecrate were repeated, then there would be more bishops. The question then becomes: are the circuмstances of Assisi III repeating those of Assisi I ?  One can only reply, opinions vary. Many serious Catholics think the circuмstances have grown much worse, but that is not necessarily the opinion of Bishop Fellay, who as Superior General is responsible for such a major decision for the SSPX.

    Then back to our original question: where now for the SSPX ?  The answer is clear. It must continue along the path set for it by its Founder, namely firm resistance to the (at least objective) apostates in Rome, making known as widely as possible the Archbishop's diagnosis of the otherwise insoluble problems of Church and world. His solution is simply to maintain Catholic life in accordance with the pre-Conciliar Catholic doctrine and morals of all time, for the greater glory of God and for the salvation of as many souls as possible.                      
                                   Kyrie eleison.


    Offline John Grace

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    Italy: Meeting of Superiors of the Society of St. Pius X
    « Reply #37 on: November 01, 2011, 09:03:19 AM »
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  • Fr Morgan SSPX

    http://www.sspx.co.uk/index.php?option=com_content&view=article&id=390:district-superiors-letter-november-2011&catid=114:district-superiors-letter&Itemid=86
    Quote

    District Superior's Letter November 2011

    My dear brethren

    The meeting of the Society’s superiors took place at Albano on 7-8th October as announced in last month’s newsletter, and Bishop Fellay did indeed use this opportunity to discuss the ‘Doctrinal Preamble’ text as received from Cardinal Levada on 14th September.

    The first day of the meeting covered three issues: an overview of the contacts with Rome since 1987; a summary of the doctrinal discussions; and an oral exposition of the Doctrinal Preamble docuмent itself.

    With regard to the doctrinal talks it was disappointing to note that the Roman commission failed to acknowledge the break between traditional and conciliar teachings. Instead it insisted upon the ‘hermeneutic (interpretation) of continuity,’ stating that the new teachings included and improved the old!

    It was interesting to learn that the 14th September meeting had not touched upon the doctrinal talks at all, but rather was dedicated to expounding possible practical solutions for the Society.

    So it was perhaps not surprising to learn that the proposed doctrinal basis for any canonical agreement in fact contained all those elements which the Society has consistently rejected, including acceptance of the New Mass and of Vatican II as expressed in the New Catechism. Indeed, the docuмent itself conveys the impression that there is no crisis in the Church...

    Hence the stated consensus of those in attendance was that the Doctrinal Preamble was clearly unacceptable and that the time has certainly not come to pursue any practical agreement as long as the doctrinal issues remain outstanding. It also agreed that the Society should continue its work of insisting upon the doctrinal questions in any contacts with the Roman authorities.

    In many ways we can see the hand of Providence in this meeting, falling as it did on the Feast of the Holy Rosary, given the clarification of Rome’s persistence in the modern errors, and the consequent necessity of continuing with the fight against modernism through fidelity to Catholic Tradition.

    The second day of the meeting was dedicated to its original theme, that of communications and the media.

    * * *

    The Assisi III meeting is taking place on the very day I write these few lines, at which occasion we are holding a day of reparation here at St George’s House, with all-day exposition of the Blessed Sacrament.

    The scandal of this inter-religious gathering can be resumed into three points:

    i/ It commemorates and celebrates the scandal of Assisi I;

    ii/ It replaces the Faith with religious liberty as the means to obtain world peace;

    iii/ It promotes on a practical level relativism and religious indifference.


    Offline John Grace

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    Italy: Meeting of Superiors of the Society of St. Pius X
    « Reply #38 on: November 01, 2011, 09:42:45 AM »
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  • http://the-hermeneutic-of-continuity.blogspot.com/2011/09/mass-for-success-of-sspx-negotiations.html
    Sunday, 25 September 2011
    Quote
    Gerald Purves said...
    Attended St Pius V Chapel in Groombridge,on Sunday 16th October 2011.It was announced by Father Paul Morgan Sspx,that negotiations have failed.

    10/17/2011 4:25 PM


    Offline John Grace

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    Italy: Meeting of Superiors of the Society of St. Pius X
    « Reply #39 on: November 02, 2011, 07:44:14 AM »
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  • The District Superior's Letter November 2011 has removed from the British District website.

    Offline John Grace

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    Italy: Meeting of Superiors of the Society of St. Pius X
    « Reply #40 on: November 02, 2011, 12:26:31 PM »
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  • Menzingen is trying to suggest Fr Morgan is spreading rumours. The 'doctrinal preamble' was rejected in Albano by the District Superiors and the Bishops. The German District posted this.

    http://www.piusbruderschaft.de/archiv-news/727-aus_der_bruderschaft/6029-geruechte-im-internet
    Quote
    Gerüchte im Internet
    Zur Zeit kursieren Gerüchte im Internet, die Priesterbruderschaft St. Pius X. würde "eine Einigung mit Rom ablehnen".

    Der Grund ist ein Rundschreiben des englischen Distriktoberen, Pater Paul Morgan, das gestern für kurze Zeit im Internet zu lesen war, in dem er ähnliches behauptet haben soll.

    Weil diese Meldung mittlerweile von Zeitungen und Agenturen aufgegriffen wurde, hat das Generalhaus der Priesterbruderschaft St. Pius X. in Menzingen (Schweiz) reagiert und folgende kurze Notiz veröffentlicht:

     

    Seit dem Treffen der Oberen der Seminare und Distrikte der Priesterbruderschaft St. Pius X. in Albano (Italien) am 7. Oktober 2011, erscheinen verschiedene Kommentare in der Presse bezüglich der Antwort, welche Bischof Bernard Fellay auf die römischen Vorschläge vom 14. September 2011 geben wird.

    Es wird daran erinnert, dass allein das Generalhaus der Priesterbruderschaft St. Pius X. berechtigt ist, ein offizielles Kommuniqué oder einen autorisierten Kommentar bezüglich dieser Thematik zu veröffentlichen.

    Bis weitere Informationen erscheinen, gilt die Pressemitteilung vom 7. Oktober 2011.

    Menzingen, 2. Nov. 2011


    Quote
    Currently, there are rumors on the Internet, the Fraternity of St. Pius X. would "reject an agreement with Rome."

    The reason is a circular letter of the English District Superior, Father Paul Morgan, which was read yesterday for a short time on the Internet, in which he allegedly claimed similar.

    Because this message has now been picked up by newspapers and agencies, the General House of the Society of St. Pius X. in Menzingen (Switzerland) responded and released the following brief note:

     

    Since the meeting of the upper districts of the seminars and the Fraternity of St. Pius X. Albano (Italy) on 7 Published in October 2011, various comments in the press about the response that Bishop Bernard Fellay of the Roman proposals of 14 Be September 2011.

    It is recalled that only the General House of the Society of St. Pius X. is entitled to publish an official communiqué or authorized to comment on these issues.

    Appear to further information, the press release is dated 7 October 2011.

    Menzingen, 2nd Nov. 2011

    Source: dici.org


    Offline John Grace

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    Italy: Meeting of Superiors of the Society of St. Pius X
    « Reply #41 on: November 02, 2011, 02:09:49 PM »
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  • http://www.catholicherald.co.uk/news/2011/11/02/sspx-leaders-rejected-vatican-statement-says-superior/
    Quote
    Leaders of the Society of St Pius X (SSPX) have agreed that the doctrinal preamble presented to them by the Vatican is “completely unacceptable”, according to the society’s district superior in Britain.

    In a newsletter posted online and subsequently removed, Fr Paul Morgan said SSPX superiors had rejected the doctrinal principles set out by the Vatican as the basis for further discussion.

    The superiors met last month in Albano, Rome, but said they would only issue a response to the Vatican after further study.

    In an official statement today the SSPX said that “only the General House of the Society of St Pius X is entitled to make public an official communiqué or authorised commentary on this matter”.

    In his letter Fr Morgan said it was “disappointing” that the doctrinal statement, handed to SSPX leaders by Cardinal William Levada, prefect of the Congregation for the Doctrine of the Faith, “failed to acknowledge the break between traditional and conciliar teachings”.

    “Instead,” he wrote, “it insisted upon the ‘hermeneutic [interpretation] of continuity’, stating that the new teachings included and improved upon the old!

    “So it was perhaps not surprising to learn that the proposed doctrinal basis for any canonical agreement in fact contained all those elements which the Society has consistently rejected, including acceptance of the New Mass and of Vatican II as expressed in the New Catechism. Indeed, the docuмent itself conveys the impression that there is no crisis in the Church…

    “Hence the stated consensus of those in attendance was that the doctrinal preamble was clearly unacceptable and that the time has certainly not come to pursue any practical agreement as long as the doctrinal issues remain outstanding.”

    The Vatican statement listed several principles that the SSPX had to agree with in order to move towards full conciliation with Rome.

    It came after two years of doctrinal talks between leaders of the SSPX and officials at the Vatican.

    Offline Diego

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    Italy: Meeting of Superiors of the Society of St. Pius X
    « Reply #42 on: November 02, 2011, 02:30:07 PM »
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  • The truth, not secrecy, will set you free.

    Offline ManofGosh

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    Italy: Meeting of Superiors of the Society of St. Pius X
    « Reply #43 on: November 02, 2011, 04:45:15 PM »
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  • Fr. Morgan is a district superior, who was present at the meeting in Albano. The link goes to an actual SSPX site. Doesn't sound like rumors to me.


    P.S. thanks for the info post, John Grace.
    Our Lady of The Rosary Library  (olrl. org)

    Offline SeanJohnson

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    Italy: Meeting of Superiors of the Society of St. Pius X
    « Reply #44 on: November 02, 2011, 05:29:30 PM »
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  • Just when I am about to rejoice that the SSPX is holding the line after all, here we are plunged back into the realm of doubt by this strange suppression of Fr. Morgan's revelations.

    What is Menzingen up to?

    Enough of this stuff!
    Rom 5: 20 - "But where sin increased, grace abounded all the more."