Catholic Info
Traditional Catholic Faith => SSPX Resistance News => Topic started by: Matthew on June 05, 2012, 11:09:08 AM
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...are just the product of professional brainwashing.
I'm going to give some accordistas (including a couple members here) the benefit of the doubt, that they're simply less able than others to resist a professional brainwashing campaign. It takes a lot of effort to resist brainwashing; it's much easier to resist when you already recognize it for what it is (brainwashing).
For example, how many times have Menzingen's allies said, "Pray, wait and see. The agreement will be made public when it's ready." etc.
They've also repeated countless times, "Don't discuss it on the Internet. If you want the truth, come to us. You won't find any truth if you DO go to the Internet for your SSPX-Rome news. Any talk against the SSPX leadership is schismatic and is the result of a poor spiritual life. They certainly don't have logic and reason on their side; they are a bunch of emoting hysterical women. Oh, and that reminds me, those hard-liners resort to name calling, too! And that is very uncharitable."
These are some of the sentiments echoed by a few members here.
It's as if these members believe they should follow their SSPX preists on these matters. Remember, we're talking about priests. Some people are very sensitive when it comes to such things. They don't really know what to do when some priests say one thing, and other priests say something else. I suppose in that case, they go with the priest they know.
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For example, how many times have Menzingen's allies said, "Pray, wait and see. The agreement will be made public when it's ready." etc.
My first impression of this is, they left out something really important.
That is, the agreement will be "ready" first, then the deal would be made second, and third, the agreement will be made public -- AFTER IT IS ALREADY MADE.
In other words, when you see "when it's ready," you should understand that "ready" means irrevocable, accomplished, and DONE.
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Yes, deals and elections are done and won today before opinion is formed and votes are counted. People are told what is going to happen before they participate! The consultation process is for appearance sake. Once a thing is done, it cannot be undone.
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They've also repeated countless times, "Don't discuss it on the Internet. If you want the truth, come to us. You won't find any truth if you DO go to the Internet for your SSPX-Rome news. Any talk against the SSPX leadership is schismatic and is the result of a poor spiritual life. They certainly don't have logic and reason on their side; they are a bunch of emoting hysterical women. Oh, and that reminds me, those hard-liners resort to name calling, too! And that is very uncharitable."
It's dishonesty that is characteristic of a cult. Some of these characters have become very accustomed to playing the role of bully. They've gotten very used to being patronizing and deceitful, and to threaten anyone who doesn't play along. The last thing they are concerned with is the truth.
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Really, it's the patronizing bad faith that tells you who puts Opus Fellay cult loyalty above the Faith.
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There are essentially two kids of "accordistas". The "wait and see" accordistas, and what I like to call "the Regularizers".
Fellay supporters of the "wait and see" variety are people who would leave if Fellay were to sell out, but would support a deal all the way if they felt it was a "good deal". The problem is, a deal which requires the Society to forfeit their long-lasting opposition to Vatican II and modernism, which was one of the primary reasons for their existance to begin with, cannot possibly be a "good deal". This type of Fellay supporters is generally tolerable, but they are still mistaken on several key points.
Then you have the "regularizers". These people really don't believe in the term "sell-out", they just want the Society to "regularize" with Rome. These people are generally your FSSP-type Trads.
The core of the matter, however, is that a "reconciliation" with Rome would ultimately be destructive to the Society of St. Pius X.
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Fellay supporters of the "wait and see" variety are people who would leave if Fellay were to sell out
I think most of them would just say to "wait and see" if he "really" sold out.
That is, they don't want to rock the boat. Subconsciously many of them are keen on feeling a greater sense of acceptance among Catholics and in the world. The possibility of the SSPX liberalizing, so long as it "doesn't go too far" - is something most look with favor on.
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I think most of them would just say to "wait and see" if he "really" sold out.
Yes, probably so.
I actually meant to put they CLAIM they will leave if Fellay sells out. But even if Fellay plainly sold out, how many of them would admit it or even realize it? Not very many, I would imagine.
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...are just the product of professional brainwashing.
It sounds like Fr Rostand did a really good job of it in St Mary's.
Someone mentioned Bishop Fellay's change towards V2 using his own quotes and the response was "That's what Fr Rostand warned us about--people on the internet reading articles that are not the full truth!" :facepalm: That "article" was Bishop Fellay's own interview but ... ok. Not much more to say. You can't get hostile over it because we all think we're doing what's right, so let's talk about the weather lol.
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Menzingen has no one to blame but itself for the firestorm of speculation and discussion on the Internet. The entire situation could have been avoided had they been more forthcoming. Instead, they've chosen to operate a Pravda-style publicity campaign to keep all of us guessing as to their true intentions. :read-paper:
Catholics have a strong natural interest in this story -- after all, our souls are at stake!
The poor judgment demonstrated by +Fellay and Co. on the PR front makes me even more fearful of the kind of agreement they've "negotiated" with Rome.
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Really, it's the patronizing bad faith that tells you who puts Opus Fellay cult loyalty above the Faith.
Opus +Fellay.
Nice!
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Menzingen has no one to blame but itself for the firestorm of speculation and discussion on the Internet.
I think Father Pfeiffer mentioned something about this in his sermon. He said something like, they had to keep it a secret for as long as they have or they knew they would have a rebellion on their hands.
So it seems the secrecy is deliberate. What times we live in. Makes me weary of trusting anyone anymore.
I am not sure if I'm more mad or hurt by all these shenanigans.
:cry: :really-mad2:
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Menzingen has no one to blame but itself for the firestorm of speculation and discussion on the Internet.
I think Father Pfeiffer mentioned something about this in his sermon. He said something like, they had to keep it a secret for as long as they have or they knew they would have a rebellion on their hands.
So it seems the secrecy is deliberate. What times we live in. Makes me weary of trusting anyone anymore.
I am not sure if I'm more mad or hurt by all these shenanigans.
:cry: :really-mad2:
This is precisely why we must try and remember to ultimately only place our trust in the Sacred and Immaculate Hearts! But believe me I understand what you're saying KyrieEleison, from our human point of view I would guess many of us are feeling the same as you. I know speaking for meself I feel mad and hurt all at the same time. I pray daily for you and all of us in these confusing, frustrating, and uncertain times. May we find shelter and consolation in Their Hearts!
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Really, it's the patronizing bad faith that tells you who puts Opus Fellay cult loyalty above the Faith.
Opus +Fellay.
Nice!
Opus Fellay
:roll-laugh1:
Tele, that just cracked me up!
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Menzingen has no one to blame but itself for the firestorm of speculation and discussion on the Internet.
I think Father Pfeiffer mentioned something about this in his sermon. He said something like, they had to keep it a secret for as long as they have or they knew they would have a rebellion on their hands.
So it seems the secrecy is deliberate. What times we live in. Makes me weary of trusting anyone anymore.
I am not sure if I'm more mad or hurt by all these shenanigans.
:cry: :really-mad2:
This is precisely why we must try and remember to ultimately only place our trust in the Sacred and Immaculate Hearts! But believe me I understand what you're saying KyrieEleison, from our human point of view I would guess many of us are feeling the same as you. I know speaking for myself, I feel mad and hurt all at the same time. I pray daily for you and all of us in these confusing, frustrating, and uncertain times. May we find shelter and consolation in Their Hearts!
Yes, it would seem Fr. would say the secrecy is deliberate, for he says that they
avoided heresy until the last two weeks...
From my transcription on the other thread:
...It was a confusion, a deception to soften the hearts and to
weaken the will of Catholics defending the Faith.
And then doctrinal talks. Now we're going to make a deal.
After the doctrinal talks, it was declared:
"Rome has not changed its position.
Rome's still accused of Modernism.
Rome is still rejecting the Faith.
The Society is still holding the Faith.
Nothing has changed,"
so said Bishop Fellay.
And now, it's changed. Now we're going to make a deal.
Now we're going to be accepted and regularized.
Now we're going to receive a personal prelature.
And all the docuмents are secret.
And all the communications are secret.
And all of the going back and forth is secret.
You don't keep truth a secret.
You don't keep truth a secret, but you do keep lies a secret. You do
keep evil a secret. And you keep deception a secret. That's why all the
secrecy of the last several years, because if Bishop Fellay, Father Fulger,
and Father Nely,
the superiors of the Society of St. Pius X stood up boldly, told us the truth,
everyone would have rebelled. And so they said, have confidence.
You're just foolish, stupid, idiotic, moronic sheep, and your job is
to never think, only pay, pray and obey.
You don't need to know your faith. You need to have confidence in your
holy superior. You don't need to know what he's doing with your faith.
There are secret communications. What are these communications about?
They are about the faith.
And the faith was not meant to be placed under a bushel, so said
Jesus Christ, but upon the candlestand. The faith is meant to be publicly
professed and publicly confessed, and to unto the time of death.
Now, they avoided heresy, they avoided heretical statements until
the last 2 weeks. Now the deal is almost done. The betrayal is almost complete...
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..It was a confusion, a deception to soften the hearts and to weaken the will
of Catholics defending the Faith.
And then doctrinal talks. Now we're going to make a deal.
After the doctrinal talks, it was declared:
"Rome has not changed its position.
Rome's still accused of Modernism.
Rome is still rejecting the Faith.
The Society is still holding the Faith.
Nothing has changed,"
so said Bishop Fellay.
And now, it's changed. Now we're going to make a deal.
Now we're going to be accepted and regularized.
Now we're going to receive a personal prelature.
And all the docuмents are secret.
And all the communications are secret.
And all of the going back and forth is secret.
You don't keep truth a secret.
You don't keep truth a secret, but you do keep lies a secret. You do
keep evil a secret. And you keep deception a secret. That's why all the
secrecy of the last several years, because if Bishop Fellay, Father Fulger,
and Father Nely,
the superiors of the Society of St. Pius X stood up boldly, told us the truth,
everyone would have rebelled. And so they said, have confidence.
You're just foolish, stupid, idiotic, moronic sheep, and your job is
to never think, only pay, pray and obey.
You don't need to know your faith. You need to have confidence in your
holy superior. You don't need to know what he's doing with your faith.
There are secret communications. What are these communications about?
They are about the faith.
And the faith was not meant to be placed under a bushel, so said
Jesus Christ, but upon the candlestand. The faith is meant to be publicly
professed and publicly confessed, and to unto the time of death.
Now, they avoided heresy, they avoided heretical statements until
the last 2 weeks. Now the deal is almost done. The betrayal is almost complete...
Yes, they serve the Jєωs, the freemasons, the agnostics who pretend to be Catholic because they develop some Hegelian "hermeneutic" that empties the Faith of all meaning.
And Bishop Fellay's response is to be the obscurantist. To stop telling the truth about who they are and what they believe.
To hire Zionists to the higest positions, to approve of collaboration with Freemasons. To play the role of a latter day Iscariot.
Nothing less. To be a bully. To be a cult leader. To threaten priests with expulsion for telling the truth.
So that he can lead the faithful who followed Archibishop Lefebvre to the final dissolution.
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I am sure an Opus Dei solution is something the management cannot resist. From a business point of view it could achieve substantial material benefits by appealing to a new generation of wealthy benefactors that like the idea of retaining an interest in traditional cultures as distinct from the mainstream for the masses. The old European families left behind by history that paid for the Society in the beginning have died off; their children trained in modern ways are more circuмspect.
The leadership has been removing the old guard from centre-stage. With its assumed divine right to rule it also relies on contemporary corporate management styles in their treatment of customers. And it will create a customer base that best suits it; more liberal and less reactionary. However, the Society is not alone in having to consider some ideological realignment. Conservatism generally has redefined itself and become more flexible; this is the Vatican 2 appproach. An aversion to remaining on the sidelines must be the leadership's thinking but it is in for a rude awakening if it thinks by joining the Roman club that it will be given a seat of some importance.
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An aversion to remaining on the sidelines must be the leadership's thinking but it is in for a rude awakening if it thinks by joining the Roman club that it will be given a seat of some importance.
True. They are schoolboys in a Roman world of post-graduates.
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Menzingen has no one to blame but itself for the firestorm of speculation and discussion on the Internet. The entire situation could have been avoided had they been more forthcoming. Instead, they've chosen to operate a Pravda-style publicity campaign to keep all of us guessing as to their true intentions. :read-paper:
Catholics have a strong natural interest in this story -- after all, our souls are at stake!
The poor judgment demonstrated by +Fellay and Co. on the PR front makes me even more fearful of the kind of agreement they've "negotiated" with Rome.
It just shows that Fellay is not an idiot. Mendacious prig, yes, but not an idiot. He knew very well when undertaking reconciliation with the Conciliar anti-church that full disclosure of his capitulation would've meant instant mass exodus of a significant, perhaps even majority, portion of the faithful attached to the Society. Disinformation has bought him:
1.) Sufficient time to establish himself as a martyr, pressed between the "Church, still persisting in error" and the militant "would-be sedevacantists" that reject reconciliation short of Rome's complete repudiation of false, Vatican II religion.
2.) Money. Despite the confusion, I'd imagine that the vast majority of faithful attached to the SSPX are still contributing financially to it.
3.) Entrenchment of the Goldilocks syndrome in those faithful attached to the SSPX that support a deal. It's a phenomenon I've found throughout the many stripes of pseudo-traditionalism. For "traditional" conciliarists, modernists are too liberal and the SSPX too conservative to the point of purported schism. To some in the SSPX, now, the false dichotomy that conciliarism is too liberal and sedevacantism too militant, again to the point of purported schism.
No, it was a political masterstroke on his part in terms of attempting to produce the greatest temporal benefits to himself and his comrades. If it were 1960, he would've gotten away with it completely. However, the digital age (that is, the release of letter from the Three and his response), has been his undoing. Be not deceived, God is not mocked.