...are just the product of professional brainwashing.

I'm going to give some accordistas (including a couple members here) the benefit of the doubt, that they're simply less able than others to resist a professional brainwashing campaign. It takes a lot of effort to resist brainwashing; it's much easier to resist when you already recognize it for what it is (brainwashing).

For example, how many times have Menzingen's allies said, "Pray, wait and see. The agreement will be made public when it's ready." etc.

They've also repeated countless times, "Don't discuss it on the Internet. If you want the truth, come to us. You won't find any truth if you DO go to the Internet for your SSPX-Rome news. Any talk against the SSPX leadership is schismatic and is the result of a poor spiritual life. They certainly don't have logic and reason on their side; they are a bunch of emoting hysterical women. Oh, and that reminds me, those hard-liners resort to name calling, too! And that is very uncharitable."

These are some of the sentiments echoed by a few members here.

It's as if these members believe they should follow their SSPX preists on these matters. Remember, we're talking about priests. Some people are very sensitive when it comes to such things. They don't really know what to do when some priests say one thing, and other priests say something else. I suppose in that case, they go with the priest they know.

Yes, deals and elections are done and won today before opinion is formed and votes are counted. People are told what is going to happen before they participate! The consultation process is for appearance sake. Once a thing is done, it cannot be undone.  

Really, it's the patronizing bad faith that tells you who puts Opus Fellay cult loyalty above the Faith.

Fellay supporters of the "wait and see" variety are people who would leave if Fellay were to sell out

I think most of them would just say to "wait and see" if he "really" sold out.

That is, they don't want to rock the boat.  Subconsciously many of them are keen on feeling a greater sense of acceptance among Catholics and in the world.  The possibility of the SSPX liberalizing, so long as it "doesn't go too far" - is something most look with favor on.

...are just the product of professional brainwashing.

It sounds like Fr Rostand did a really good job of it in St Mary's.

Someone mentioned Bishop Fellay's change towards V2 using his own quotes and the response was "That's what Fr Rostand warned us about--people on the internet reading articles that are not the full truth!"   That "article" was Bishop Fellay's own interview but ... ok. Not much more to say. You can't get hostile over it because we all think we're doing what's right, so let's talk about the weather lol.

Really, it's the patronizing bad faith that tells you who puts Opus Fellay cult loyalty above the Faith.

Opus +Fellay.

Nice!

Quote from: finegan

Menzingen has no one to blame but itself for the firestorm of speculation and discussion on the Internet.

I think Father Pfeiffer mentioned something about this in his sermon.  He said something like, they had to keep it a secret for as long as they have or they knew they would have a rebellion on their hands.

So it seems the secrecy is deliberate.  What times we live in. Makes me weary of trusting anyone anymore.
I am not sure if I'm more mad or hurt by all these shenanigans.  

 :cry: :really-mad2:

This is precisely why we must try and remember to ultimately only place our trust in the Sacred and Immaculate Hearts!  But believe me I understand what you're saying KyrieEleison, from our human point of view I would guess many of us are feeling the same as you.  I know speaking for meself I feel mad and hurt all at the same time.  I pray daily for you and all of us in these confusing, frustrating, and uncertain times. May we find shelter and consolation in Their Hearts!

Quote from: KyrieEleison

Quote from: finegan

Menzingen has no one to blame but itself for the firestorm of speculation and discussion on the Internet.

I think Father Pfeiffer mentioned something about this in his sermon.  He said something like, they had to keep it a secret for as long as they have or they knew they would have a rebellion on their hands.

So it seems the secrecy is deliberate.  What times we live in. Makes me weary of trusting anyone anymore.
I am not sure if I'm more mad or hurt by all these shenanigans.  

 :cry: :really-mad2:

This is precisely why we must try and remember to ultimately only place our trust in the Sacred and Immaculate Hearts!  But believe me I understand what you're saying KyrieEleison, from our human point of view I would guess many of us are feeling the same as you.  I know speaking for myself, I feel mad and hurt all at the same time.  I pray daily for you and all of us in these confusing, frustrating, and uncertain times. May we find shelter and consolation in Their Hearts!

Yes, it would seem Fr. would say the secrecy is deliberate, for he says that they
avoided heresy until the last two weeks...

From my transcription on the other thread:

...It was a confusion, a deception to soften the hearts and to
weaken the will of Catholics defending the Faith.

And then doctrinal talks. Now we're going to make a deal.

After the doctrinal talks, it was declared:

"Rome has not changed its position.
Rome's still accused of Modernism.
Rome is still rejecting the Faith.
The Society is still holding the Faith.
Nothing has changed,"
so said Bishop Fellay.

And now, it's changed. Now we're going to make a deal.
Now we're going to be accepted and regularized.

Now we're going to receive a personal prelature.
And all the docuмents are secret.
And all the communications are secret.
And all of the going back and forth is secret.
You don't keep truth a secret.

You don't keep truth a secret, but you do keep lies a secret. You do
keep evil a secret. And you keep deception a secret. That's why all the
secrecy of the last several years, because if Bishop Fellay, Father Fulger,
and Father Nely,
the superiors of the Society of St. Pius X stood up boldly, told us the truth,
everyone would have rebelled. And so they said, have confidence.
You're just foolish, stupid, idiotic, moronic sheep, and your job is
to never think, only pay, pray and obey.

You don't need to know your faith. You need to have confidence in your
holy superior. You don't need to know what he's doing with your faith.
There are secret communications. What are these communications about?
They are about the faith.

And the faith was not meant to be placed under a bushel, so said
Jesus Christ, but upon the candlestand. The faith is meant to be publicly
professed and publicly confessed, and to unto the time of death.

Now, they avoided heresy, they avoided heretical statements until
the last 2 weeks. Now the deal is almost done. The betrayal is almost complete...