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Author Topic: Huonder Video: Part II  (Read 2299 times)

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Offline SeanJohnson

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Huonder Video: Part II
« on: May 03, 2023, 03:13:47 PM »
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  • There is much in this video which will gain the approval of trads, however, less conspicuous in this video is the subtle defense of the Council itself:

    -The new Mass did not follow the directives of Vatican II (consequently it can be criticized). 

    -The hierarchy and the conciliar and post-conciliar "reforms" lack piety (but they were not heretical or even erroneous?).

    -Priests wanted, for reasons of conscience, to remain faithful to the liturgy (a dramatic restriction of the scope of the Church crisis).

    What do you think?

    Rom 5: 20 - "But where sin increased, grace abounded all the more."

    Offline Kazimierz

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    Re: Huonder Video: Part II
    « Reply #1 on: May 03, 2023, 06:04:43 PM »
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  • There is much in this video which will gain the approval of trads, however, less conspicuous in this video is the subtle defense of the Council itself:

    -The new Mass did not follow the directives of Vatican II (consequently it can be criticized). 

    -The hierarchy and the conciliar and post-conciliar "reforms" lack piety (but they were not heretical or even erroneous?).

    -Priests wanted, for reasons of conscience, to remain faithful to the liturgy (a dramatic restriction of the scope of the Church crisis).

    What do you think?


    a) The new Mass is the logical and intended outgrowth of the philosophy that drove the new theology that is the conciliar church.

    b) lack of piety? How about losing the Faith altogether? Rome a perdu la foi! Roma conciliarius delenda est!

    c) How about priests chose false obedience to a bad authority rather than remaining true to the Faith carried by Tradition?

    Those who do not see the heart and guts of the problem are not really Traditionalists, merely one of many flavours of apostasy.

    "You aint Trad! You aint nothing!" ;)
    Da pacem Domine in diebus nostris
    Qui non est alius
    Qui pugnet pro nobis
    Nisi  tu Deus noster


    Offline Ladislaus

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    Re: Huonder Video: Part II
    « Reply #2 on: May 04, 2023, 06:53:20 AM »
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  • Well, he's pretty much just articulating the R&R position.

    If Huonder is some kind of gatekeeper, then what is he gatekeeping against?  Well, it would be against the fact that the Church has been taken over by infiltrators and usurpers.

    Very interesting question is why Jorge would permit him to make these statements that are absolutely contrary to his own position that was detailed in Traditionis Custodes?  Does Huonder act and speak with Jorge's blessing?  Why would Jorge approve of his saying such things as on this video unless there were some nefarious plot here and Huonder is merely play-acting his role?

    Offline SeanJohnson

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    Re: Huonder Video: Part II
    « Reply #3 on: May 04, 2023, 07:05:23 AM »
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  • Very interesting question is why Jorge would permit him to make these statements that are absolutely contrary to his own position that was detailed in Traditionis Custodes?  Does Huonder act and speak with Jorge's blessing?  Why would Jorge approve of his saying such things as on this video unless there were some nefarious plot here and Huonder is merely play-acting his role?

    Of course.

    The more the SSPX faithful and clergy buy into Huonder, the more it both evinces and promotes/advances Fr. Cottier’s blueprint (which has proceeded exactly as the modernists have contrived these last 20 years):

    ”Reconciliation carries within itself it’s own internal dynamism…we must be patient.  What is important is that there no longer be rejection in their hearts…gradually we must expect further steps, like concelebration [or consecration of holy oils].”

    Everything Huonder says and does to further this dilution and reintegration is pre approved in Rome.
    Rom 5: 20 - "But where sin increased, grace abounded all the more."

    Offline Kazimierz

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    Re: Huonder Video: Part II
    « Reply #4 on: May 04, 2023, 02:54:50 PM »
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  • Of course.

    The more the SSPX faithful and clergy buy into Huonder, the more it both evinces and promotes/advances Fr. Cottier’s blueprint (which has proceeded exactly as the modernists have contrived these last 20 years):

    ”Reconciliation carries within itself it’s own internal dynamism…we must be patient.  What is important is that there no longer be rejection in their hearts…gradually we must expect further steps, like concelebration [or consecration of holy oils].”

    Everything Huonder says and does to further this dilution and reintegration is pre approved in Rome.
    You're doing great Huonder!

    Da pacem Domine in diebus nostris
    Qui non est alius
    Qui pugnet pro nobis
    Nisi  tu Deus noster


    Offline Soubirous

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    Re: Huonder Video: Part II
    « Reply #5 on: May 04, 2023, 09:15:18 PM »
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  • Everything Huonder says and does to further this dilution and reintegration is pre approved in Rome.

    After TC was issued, the usual trad-adjacent pundits were convinced that the endgame was to corral the pesky diocesan smells-and-bells people out into the SSPX and then excommunicate the whole lot. Paranoid shrieking, or is such a reversal still possible with this Rome of surprises? 

    The latest wrinkle: the Swiss bishops are calling for an apostolic investigation into Huonder's labeling of a "pontificate of rupture" (thread here, article in German here). He's retired, what are they going to do. Unless this is part of the scripted lead-up into something else.
    Let nothing disturb you, let nothing frighten you, all things pass away: God never changes. Patience obtains all things. He who has God finds he lacks nothing; God alone suffices. - St. Teresa of Jesus

    Offline trento

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    Re: Huonder Video: Part II
    « Reply #6 on: May 05, 2023, 12:30:57 AM »
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  • After TC was issued, the usual trad-adjacent pundits were convinced that the endgame was to corral the pesky diocesan smells-and-bells people out into the SSPX and then excommunicate the whole lot. Paranoid shrieking, or is such a reversal still possible with this Rome of surprises?

    The latest wrinkle: the Swiss bishops are calling for an apostolic investigation into Huonder's labeling of a "pontificate of rupture" (thread here, article in German here). He's retired, what are they going to do. Unless this is part of the scripted lead-up into something else.

    True, there's nothing much they can do. Retired Bishop Rene Gracida and Archbishop Jan Pawel Lenga don't even recognize Francis as Pope, and nothing happened to them.

    Offline Plenus Venter

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    Re: Huonder Video: Part II
    « Reply #7 on: May 05, 2023, 07:50:55 AM »
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  • The latest wrinkle: the Swiss bishops are calling for an apostolic investigation into Huonder's labeling of a "pontificate of rupture" (thread here, article in German here). He's retired, what are they going to do. Unless this is part of the scripted lead-up into something else.
    Undoubtedly! His former friends in the New Church are playing the game, trying to give him a reputation as a traditionalist so that he may more readily deceive. I'm not meaning to judge his heart, but that is the appearance, and deception is certainly the result for the neoSSPXers.


    Offline SeanJohnson

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    Re: Huonder Video: Part II
    « Reply #8 on: May 05, 2023, 08:04:04 AM »
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  • Undoubtedly! His former friends in the New Church are playing the game, trying to give him a reputation as a traditionalist so that he may more readily deceive. I'm not meaning to judge his heart, but that is the appearance, and deception is certainly the result for the neoSSPXers.

    Yup.

    “Those who do not learn from history are doomed to repeat it.”

    This subterfuge allows the SSPX to point to Huonder and cry, “Look how much the modernists hate him for his traditionalism!”

    Ten years earlier, the same tactic was used with regard to BXVI and his offer to regularize the Society:

    “All the modernists are up in arms and against the pope over the prospects of our regularization.”

    But for those who refused to see the game being played, +Ganswein’s inconvenient revelation that BXVI always and only wanted to snatch followers away from Lefebvre is cold water.

    When the SSPX starts publishing +Vigano videos trashing the council itself, I might start to pay attention, but that won’t happen.

    Huonder is no Vigano, and observing the SSPX’s varied response toward each is another means of revealing the game being played.
    Rom 5: 20 - "But where sin increased, grace abounded all the more."

    Offline SeanJohnson

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    Re: Huonder Video: Part II
    « Reply #9 on: May 05, 2023, 12:25:19 PM »
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  • Your Excellencies/Rev. Fathers-

    No doubt, you are all aware of the +Huonder video series released by the SSPX, designed to anesthetize the clergy and faithful into accepting the “traditionalism” of +Huonder (an infiltrator on an admitted mission directly from Francis to reintegrate/dissolve the SSPX into the conciliar church).

    I will not bore you with an analysis of his comments (except to note that, like +Schneider, they all tend to excuse the council itself, restrict the battle for the faith to the sole issue of the Mass, and lay the groundwork for a hybrid rite by arguing -however truly- that the Novus Ordo was not a rite faithful to Sacrosanctum Concilium), but rather, I wish to direct your attention to an old tactic being used to make the anesthesia easier for the faithful to consume, because “those who do not learn from history are doomed to repeat it.”

    All will recall in 2012 that one of Menzingen’s responses to Resistance warnings that +Fellay was entering a trap, was to claim that all the conciliar modernists opposed BXVI’s intention to reconcile the Society.  “It proves Benedict is traditional, therefore there is no trap, and the modernists are terrified that the pope will bring us back into the ‘official’ Church.”  Then followed all the premeditated “proofs” of Benedict’s traditionalism (the motu proprio, etc).

    Fortunately, +Ganswein’s inconvenient biography of BXVI revealed that the late pope’s intentions were always and only to draw as many followers away from Lefebvre as possible.

    Today, the same lie is proffered on behalf of +Huonder: A video series made to promote his alleged traditionalism, to reassure the faithful (and clergy) that it is right and safe to welcome this man into tradition (and by implication, that it is safe and acceptable to collaborate with conciliar clergy: a Roman prerequisite for any practical accord!).

    To enhance the illusion, a disingenuous “uproar” is manufactured among the Swiss bishops in opposition to Huonder and his recent (pre-approved) comments against Traditionis Custodes.

    This subterfuge allows the SSPX to point to Huonder and cry, “Look how much the modernists hate him for his traditionalism!” (Just as ten years earlier, the same tactic was used with regard to BXVI and his offer to regularize the Society: “All the modernists are up in arms and against the pope over the prospects of our regularization.  This proves he is traditional!”).


    But the astute observer will note a very different response, from both Rome and Menzingen, with regard to +Vigano, about who’s traditionalism there is no doubt!  Why no videos promoting +Vigano?  Why the long, conspicuous silence from the Society on him? 

    To ask such questions is to answer them.

    But the devil always shows his cloven hoof, and in the case of +Huonder, it is revealed by his desire to avoid blaming the council.  All the promotion and newly manufactured controversy surrounding him in Switzerland is designed to conceal that cloven hoof, and it is the same old Roman-SSPX artifice as in 2012. 

    Given the lack of protest coming from within the Society, it is easy to predict this tactic will be much more effective this time around (the Society having long since "purified" its ranks and pews of most who would have cared).

    “Because they had not the love of truth, I will send them an operation of error, that they should believe lies…”

    Semper Idem,
    Sean Johnson



    Rom 5: 20 - "But where sin increased, grace abounded all the more."

    Offline Ladislaus

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    Re: Huonder Video: Part II
    « Reply #10 on: May 05, 2023, 05:36:01 PM »
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  • No doubt, you are all aware of the +Huonder video series released by the SSPX, designed to anesthetize the clergy and faithful into accepting the “traditionalism” of +Huonder (an infiltrator on an admitted mission directly from Francis to reintegrate/dissolve the SSPX into the conciliar church).

    Now maybe some day, instead of attributing grave error to the Holy Catholic Church, you'll realize that Ratzinger was playing the exact same role, and was no Catholic but, rather, a deceiver and an infiltrator, a usurper of the Holy See.

    Suite-and-tie-at-V2-buddies-with-the-Modernists-purveyor-of-numerous-unretracted-heresies-worse-than-Luther Ratzinger was transformed by a deliberate PR campaign into "God's Rottweiller", a Hammer of Heretics, by having him put on a show in slapping the likes of Hans Kung and Charles Curran on the wrist, by forcing them to be transferred to a different department in their "Catholic" universities and having the course numbers changed on their heretical classes, so that once his pre-determined and engineered (like Biden's) "election" took place, he spoke a bit of Latin and issued a sleight-of-hand-smoke-and-mirrors "Motu" in which the Tridentine Mass became permitted-unless-forbidden instead of forbidden-unless-permitted by the Conciliar "bishops", his sole mission being to neutralize and re-asborb the majority of Traditional Catholics (in the SSPX) back into the Conciliar Borg collective, and having failed in his mission due to some unexpected comments made by one Trad bishop about a certain matter that provoked the ire of his own chief sposors, handlers, and controllers, was told to step down from the office and make way for the destroyer Bergoglio who had been pre-selected and waiting in the wings, who despite making no bones publicly about having nothing but contempt for the Tridentine Mass and Traditionalists, nevertheless continues to work toward the re-absorption under the guise of his great "mercy" and humbleness.

    How's that for a single run-on-sentence :laugh1:


    Offline SeanJohnson

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    Re: Huonder Video: Part II
    « Reply #11 on: May 05, 2023, 05:52:10 PM »
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  • Now maybe some day, instead of attributing grave error to the Holy Catholic Church, you'll realize that Ratzinger was playing the exact same role, and was no Catholic but, rather, a deceiver and an infiltrator, a usurper of the Holy See.

    Suite-and-tie-at-V2-buddies-with-the-Modernists-purveyor-of-numerous-unretracted-heresies-worse-than-Luther Ratzinger was transformed by a deliberate PR campaign into "God's Rottweiller", a Hammer of Heretics, by having him put on a show in slapping the likes of Hans Kung and Charles Curran on the wrist, by forcing them to be transferred to a different department in their "Catholic" universities and having the course numbers changed on their heretical classes, so that once his pre-determined and engineered (like Biden's) "election" took place, he spoke a bit of Latin and issued a sleight-of-hand-smoke-and-mirrors "Motu" in which the Tridentine Mass became permitted-unless-forbidden instead of forbidden-unless-permitted by the Conciliar "bishops", his sole mission being to neutralize and re-asborb the majority of Traditional Catholics (in the SSPX) back into the Conciliar Borg collective, and having failed in his mission due to some unexpected comments made by one Trad bishop about a certain matter that provoked the ire of his own chief sposors, handlers, and controllers, was told to step down from the office and make way for the destroyer Bergoglio who had been pre-selected and waiting in the wings, who despite making no bones publicly about having nothing but contempt for the Tridentine Mass and Traditionalists, nevertheless continues to work toward the re-absorption under the guise of his great "mercy" and humbleness.

    How's that for a single run-on-sentence :laugh1:

    $100 if you can cite me (ever) attributing grave error to the Church.
    Rom 5: 20 - "But where sin increased, grace abounded all the more."

    Offline Plenus Venter

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    Re: Huonder Video: Part II
    « Reply #12 on: May 05, 2023, 08:45:31 PM »
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  • Fortunately, +Ganswein’s inconvenient biography of BXVI revealed that the late pope’s intentions were always and only to draw as many followers away from Lefebvre as possible.

    Today, the same lie is proffered on behalf of +Huonder
    As reported on the SSPX website here:

    Msgr. Gänswein’s Comments on Benedict XVI in a German Newspaper - FSSPX.Actualités / FSSPX.News

    The rest of the answer is no less interesting. It gives restates Benedict XVI's intention with the motu proprio Summorum Pontificuм: “Because his intention had been to help those who had simply found a home in the old Mass to find an interior peace, in order to distance them from Lefebvre.”

    Msgr. Gänswein has no hesitation in expressing this intention. He reports it as he heard it expressed by the author of the motu proprio.

    A translation from another website:
    I believe that Pope Benedict read this Motu Proprio (Traditionis Custodes) with pain in his heart, because he wanted to help those who had found a place in the old Mass, to lead them away from Lefebvre, and for them to find inner peace, also liturgical peace

    Offline Plenus Venter

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    Re: Huonder Video: Part II
    « Reply #13 on: May 05, 2023, 11:34:40 PM »
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  • Your Excellencies/Rev. Fathers-

    No doubt, you are all aware of the +Huonder video series released by the SSPX, designed to anesthetize the clergy and faithful into accepting the “traditionalism” of +Huonder (an infiltrator on an admitted mission directly from Francis to reintegrate/dissolve the SSPX into the conciliar church).

    I will not bore you with an analysis of his comments (except to note that, like +Schneider, they all tend to excuse the council itself, restrict the battle for the faith to the sole issue of the Mass, and lay the groundwork for a hybrid rite by arguing -however truly- that the Novus Ordo was not a rite faithful to Sacrosanctum Concilium), but rather, I wish to direct your attention to an old tactic being used to make the anesthesia easier for the faithful to consume, because “those who do not learn from history are doomed to repeat it.”

    All will recall in 2012 that one of Menzingen’s responses to Resistance warnings that +Fellay was entering a trap, was to claim that all the conciliar modernists opposed BXVI’s intention to reconcile the Society.  “It proves Benedict is traditional, therefore there is no trap, and the modernists are terrified that the pope will bring us back into the ‘official’ Church.”  Then followed all the premeditated “proofs” of Benedict’s traditionalism (the motu proprio, etc).

    Fortunately, +Ganswein’s inconvenient biography of BXVI revealed that the late pope’s intentions were always and only to draw as many followers away from Lefebvre as possible.

    Today, the same lie is proffered on behalf of +Huonder: A video series made to promote his alleged traditionalism, to reassure the faithful (and clergy) that it is right and safe to welcome this man into tradition (and by implication, that it is safe and acceptable to collaborate with conciliar clergy: a Roman prerequisite for any practical accord!).

    To enhance the illusion, a disingenuous “uproar” is manufactured among the Swiss bishops in opposition to Huonder and his recent (pre-approved) comments against Traditionis Custodes.

    This subterfuge allows the SSPX to point to Huonder and cry, “Look how much the modernists hate him for his traditionalism!” (Just as ten years earlier, the same tactic was used with regard to BXVI and his offer to regularize the Society: “All the modernists are up in arms and against the pope over the prospects of our regularization.  This proves he is traditional!”).


    But the astute observer will note a very different response, from both Rome and Menzingen, with regard to +Vigano, about who’s traditionalism there is no doubt!  Why no videos promoting +Vigano?  Why the long, conspicuous silence from the Society on him? 

    To ask such questions is to answer them.

    But the devil always shows his cloven hoof, and in the case of +Huonder, it is revealed by his desire to avoid blaming the council.  All the promotion and newly manufactured controversy surrounding him in Switzerland is designed to conceal that cloven hoof, and it is the same old Roman-SSPX artifice as in 2012. 

    Given the lack of protest coming from within the Society, it is easy to predict this tactic will be much more effective this time around (the Society having long since "purified" its ranks and pews of most who would have cared).

    “Because they had not the love of truth, I will send them an operation of error, that they should believe lies…”

    Semper Idem,
    Sean Johnson

    Good letter, Sean. Will you be sending this out? How many on the mailing list???