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Author Topic: It's a Huonderful Life! Open Letter to Fr. Jorna, District Superior of the SSPX  (Read 9865 times)

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Offline Angelus

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We ourselves, therefore, by Our Apostolic authority, approve the rite for the conferring of the sacred Orders of the Diaconate, the Presbyterate, and the Episcopate, a rite revised by the Consilium ad exsequendam Constitutionem de sacra Liturgia "after consultation with bishops from various parts of the world and with the aid of experts." (10), so that henceforth it may be used in the conferring of these Orders in place of the rite still found in the Roman Pontifical. - Paul VI, Pontificalis Romani, 1968



Here is an incorrect English translation of that paragraph in Pontificalis Romani from Google Translate:

Quote
Therefore, this rite for the collation of the Sacred Orders of the Diaconate, the Presbyterate and the Episcopate, ... ,we ourselves approve by our apostolic authority, so that henceforth, instead of the rite still existing in the Roman Pontifical, it should be used in the conferring of these Orders.

That Google translation gives the false impression that Paul VI is approving the abrogation of the previous rite and requiring that the new rite be used in the future. That is not what his words say. 

Here is an alternative literal translation of the same (which is very close to the one that PV quoted above):

Quote
Therefore, this collection of rites of Sacred Orders of the Diaconate, Presbyterate, and the Episcopate, ... , We by our apostolic authority approve, so that henceforth, to the rite in the Roman Pontifical still extant, may be extended in conferring these Orders.

Here is the original Latin:

Hunc igitur ritum pro collatione Ordinum Sacrorum Diaconatus, Presbyteratus et Episcopatus, ... , Nosmet ipsi Apostolica Nostra auctoritate approbamus, ut posthac, pro ritu in Pontificali Romano adhuc exstante, adhibeatur in his Ordinibus conferendis.

Essentially, Paul VI created a parallel set of Orders that "may be used." These new, parallel Orders are the marks of the Counterfeit Catholic Church. But the real, valid, Orders still exist and can be and should be used. There is no pontifical abrogation of the Old Orders.



Paul VI said that? Do you have a reference for me please Dusty?
Was it an infallible declaration?

Unless he explicitly referenced his intention to engage infallibility, then it is not.


Essentially, Paul VI created a parallel set of Orders that "may be used." These new, parallel Orders are the marks of the Counterfeit Catholic Church. But the real, valid, Orders still exist and can be and should be used. There is no pontifical abrogation of the Old Orders.
Yes, good point, Angelus. Hardly a law enforced with infallible authority. Not that it even could be, in my opinion, as the role of the Pope in this regard is to preserve, guard, expound, clarify and transmit what he has received, not to revolutionise and concoct! As Archbishop Lefebvre put it so simply: I am simply the postman, delivering to you that which I have received. I did not write the letter! Unfortunately, the popes of the last 60 years or so have been busy re-writing!

Does that make them not pope? That is where we differ. I say no, that means we resist them. We do not have the right to make that decision. The Church needs to hold them to account (a Council, St Robert Bellarmine would say). There lies the mystery, as God has so allowed His Church to be overshadowed by this crisis that for the time being God wills that we must patiently suffer this evil, but as St Robert says:

But they will say, therefore, only the Church is without remedy if it has a bad Pope, and the Pope can disturb all things unpunished, and destroy and no one will be able to resist. I respond: No wonder if the Church remains without an efficacious human remedy, seeing that its safety does not rest principally upon human industry, but divine protection, since God is its King. Therefore, even if the Church could not depose a Pope, still it may and must beg the Lord that he would apply the remedy, and it is certain that God has care of its safety, that he would either convert the Pope or abolish him from the midst before he destroys the Church. Nevertheless, it does not follow from here that it is not lawful to resist a Pope destroying the Church; for it is lawful to admonish him while preserving all reverence, and to modestly correct him... (De Ecclesia, Bk II On The Authority of Councils, Ch XIX Protestant Responses are Refuted)

Offline Angelus

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Well, that is in fact the meaning of Sacramentum Ordinis:

Sacramentum Ordinis - Papal Encyclicals

in the Episcopal Ordination or Consecration, the matter is the imposition of hands which is done by the Bishop consecrator. The form consists of the words of the “Preface,” of which the following are essential and therefore required for validity:

Just because the said words are essential, does not mean that the whole preface is not part of the form. It is, according to this docuмent. And of course, those 'essential words' are different in the other rites. Sacramentum Ordinis lays down the principles:

3. All agree that the Sacraments of the New Law, as sensible signs which produce invisible grace, must both signify the grace which they produce and produce the grace which they signify. Now the effects which must be produced and hence also signified by Sacred Ordination to the Diaconate, the Priesthood, and the Episcopacy, namely power and grace, in all the rites of various times and places in the universal Church, are found to be sufficiently signified by the imposition of hands and the words which determine it.

Don't misunderstand, I'm not arguing in favour of the new rite's validity. It's disputed, and I believe the only way that dispute can be resolved definitively is by the Magisterium which is on strike at the moment! However, I do consider it rash to definitively declare it certainly invalid when there are theological opinions to the contrary.


PV, we don't need to declare it "certainly invalid." The standard in the moral theology manuals is much lower. All one needs is enough evidence for possible invalidity to introduce a "positive doubt." Callan and McHugh state that a "tutiorist" stance must be taken when "there is question of the validity or invalidity of a Sacrament, for the virtue of religion requires that the Sacraments be administered with fidelity, and be not exposed to the peril of nullity."

What you and Dusty have brought up in Sacramentum Ordinis is evidence enough for "positive doubt." But there is enough evidence, I believe, for moral certainty in the matter.
  
Pull up Sacramentum Ordinis in Latin in one window and in the official English translation in another window. Notice how the words "validitatem" and "valorum" are used precisely (in the Latin) to mean different things. But in the English translation both of those different Latin words are translated as the same word, "validity."

Also, look at the use of the words referring to "essence" and "substance." These are technical theological terms. In Aquinas, these words refer to very different cognitive and ontological topoi. Any "substance" consists of "matter" and "form" as the genetic components of that "substance." A "substance" cannot "exist" unless there is FIRST a coalescence of matter and form. So a Sacrament (as a particular instance of the Eucharist, for example) cannot "exist" without the presence of BOTH matter and form. The "substance" refers to a particular reality, the thing itself.

An "essence" is very different. The "essence" of a thing is a mental abstraction of properties from already existing things possessing that "essence." The essence is determined by empirical examination of already existing realities (that is, things already built up by the coalescence of matter and form). Another name for "essence" in Thomism is quiddity, or the "whatness" of the thing.  An "essence" is conceptual in nature, a construct of the mind, it is not "the thing itself." 

So, only the "substance" of the Sacrament pertains to its "validity." This is Thomism. And it is the basis of the quote from Trent in paragraph 1 of SO, that the "substance of the Sacraments" cannot be changed. Note, however, that in SO paragraph 5, each quoted phrase mentioned is introduced as being "essentialia ideoque ad valorem requisita [essential and therefore required for value]." Nothing in the Latin text, in that section, refers to "substance" or "validity." What???? This should set off alarm bells.


So what is going on in paragraph 5? "Essences," using the precise Thomistic theological terminology, are not related to "validity," but instead, they can add "value" to help us understand the Sacrament better, in this case, the Sacrament of Orders. Why do they "add value?" Because they define the "whatness," or the quiddity, of the particular Order referenced. In other words, something "essential" is helpful to know, but it is not a constituent of "validity." Only the matter and form are constituents related to "validity" of a Sacrament, which is a "substance," an ontological reality. In the case of the Sacrament of Orders, the ontological reality is the indelible character imprinted on the soul of the recipient of the Sacrament.

So the "essential" words that are quoted in SO paragraph 5 are not required for "validity." They are simply the most important (highest value) words in the Preface. The ENTIRE PREFACE is required for "validity" because the ENTIRE PREFACE (and no less) is "the form." To apply the same idea to another Sacrament, would be like saying the following: "I baptize thee, in the name of the Father, and of the Son, and of the Holy Spirit is the form of baptism, of which the word 'baptize' is essential and therefore required for value." In other words, don't use a word like "wash" or "cleanse" or whatever instead of "baptize" because the specific word "baptize" reflects something "essential" in that Sacrament. That particular word helps us understand Baptism in a definitive way.

Bottomline: Pius XII stated that "the form" of each Order is the ENTIRE Preface (for each level of Order). It is reductionism leading to invalidity to restrict the required words of "the form" to only the quoted words that are "essential and therefore required for value."



PV, we don't need to declare it "certainly invalid." The standard in the moral theology manuals is much lower. All one needs is enough evidence for possible invalidity to introduce a "positive doubt." Callan and McHugh state that a "tutiorist" stance must be taken when "there is question of the validity or invalidity of a Sacrament, for the virtue of religion requires that the Sacraments be administered with fidelity, and be not exposed to the peril of nullity."
Yes, of course, we are in agreement there. There lies much of the gravity in what is happening now with Bishop Huonder.