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Poll

Is Vax Status Relevant to Trad Courting?

Yes: Known Sterilization Nullifies a Marriage
6 (10.5%)
Yes: Couples have a right to know if their spouse will likely incur serious health problems
14 (24.6%)
Yes: If a couple is divided in morals, potential children will be confused.
20 (35.1%)
Yes: It will divide the family if only some are vaxed (i.e., some not allowed to go certain places)
1 (1.8%)
Yes: Other
9 (15.8%)
No: Why would vax status be relevant to courting?
7 (12.3%)

Total Members Voted: 50

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Offline Pax Vobis

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Re: Is Vax Status Relevant to Trad Courting?
« Reply #15 on: January 20, 2022, 08:38:50 AM »
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    But I agree with your post Lad. It does show moral weakness, laziness, and worst of all, a signal that they might be a sheep. NOT a good thing for the coming age.

    However important it was to be awake and aware for the past 50 years, it's about to become 10X as important.
    Couldn't have said it better myself.  We are now living in the age of sheep vs resistance, as regards to the global state/elites.  3 years ago, it was apparent that the new-sspx was, mostly, filled with V2 sheep, who didn't fight against (or know the evils of) new-rome.  Now we know that the new-sspx is, mostly, filled with communist sheep, who don't fight against (or know the evils of) the satanic globalist elite.  Marrying a sheep has a long, long list of problems.  And as Matthew said, as the world gets more chaotic, your problems will grow.
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    Online Mithrandylan

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    Re: Is Vax Status Relevant to Trad Courting?
    « Reply #16 on: January 20, 2022, 08:39:15 AM »
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    • Quote from: SeanJohnson on January 20, 2022, 07:52:24 AM
    HUGE correction; thank you Mith!!!

    I found this, albeit based on the new Code:

    “To contract a valid marriage, one must possess the capacity and the will to enter into a permanent and procreative-type of union. (The procreative part requires only that one be capable of having true intercourse, not that that intercourse must be fertile. More on this below.)”

    https://www.ewtn.com/catholicism/library/sterilized-couples-seeking-to-marry-5045

    Learn something every day😀
    . 
    It is the same in the old code. 

    An inability to perform coitus IS an invalidating impediment. An inability to conceive or carry a pregnancy is not. 
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    "Be kind; do not seek the malicious satisfaction of having discovered an additional enemy to the Church... And, above all, be scrupulously truthful. To all, friends and foes alike, give that serious attention which does not misrepresent any opinion, does not distort any statement, does not mutilate any quotation. We need not fear to serve the cause of Christ less efficiently by putting on His spirit". (Vermeersch, 1913).

    Offline Ladislaus

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    Re: Is Vax Status Relevant to Trad Courting?
    « Reply #17 on: January 20, 2022, 08:57:11 AM »
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    • Quote from: Mithrandylan on January 20, 2022, 07:45:20 AM
    Just to clarify, sterilization does not undermine marital validity.

    It might if it's known beforehand and then concealed.
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    Offline 2Vermont

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    Re: Is Vax Status Relevant to Trad Courting?
    « Reply #18 on: January 20, 2022, 09:01:26 AM »
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    • I'm guessing you meant Bishop Sanborn, correct?
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    Offline SeanJohnson

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    Re: Is Vax Status Relevant to Trad Courting?
    « Reply #19 on: January 20, 2022, 09:22:20 AM »
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    • Quote from: 2Vermont on January 20, 2022, 09:01:26 AM
    I'm guessing you meant Bishop Sanborn, correct?

    Corrected again.  Sheesh!  Maybe Matthew can edit the OP to make this correction?

    Also seems like the wording of the first poll question should be changed to something like:

    ”Deliberate concealment of sterilization MIGHT impact marriage validity?”
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    Offline SeanJohnson

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    Re: Is Vax Status Relevant to Trad Courting?
    « Reply #20 on: January 20, 2022, 09:30:49 AM »
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    • Very precise answer to the question (but from the perspective of the new Code):

    https://canonlawmadeeasy.com/2014/04/24/fertility-and-marriage-validity/

    Sorry I couldn’t get copy/paste to work on this website.
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    Offline SeanJohnson

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    Re: Is Vax Status Relevant to Trad Courting?
    « Reply #21 on: January 20, 2022, 09:42:36 AM »
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    • 2 people have opined that the Vax status of potential spouses is not relevant to courting.

    I would be interested to learn the reasons for that opinion.

    I won’t argue with you.  Just want to understand your perspective, if you’d be willing to share it.
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    Rom 5: 20 - "But where sin increased, grace abounded all the more."

    Offline Matthew

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    Re: Is Vax Status Relevant to Trad Courting?
    « Reply #22 on: January 20, 2022, 09:47:22 AM »
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    • This has been touched on, but not sufficiently underlined:

    What IS the purpose of courtship? To get to know your spouse. You are making a LIFE LONG commitment, you are going to be yoked together for better or worse. You better know who you're going to be yoked to! Will they stand up for the truth? Will they fight evil? Will they lay down and just "go along to get along"? Those are all VERY, VERY important things to learn about your potential spouse BEFORE marriage.

    The most important thing -- what kind of Catholic are they. But even that is related to the vax! Are they willing to stand up against the world? Go against the grain? Fight the dominant opinion, the peer pressure out there in the world? If not, that says they will probably apostatize at some point. Might not be pleasant, but it's a fact.

    The world does NOT make it easy these days. Today, worse than ever. Unless you're near-heroic, you're NOT GONNA MAKE IT.
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    Offline Ladislaus

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    Re: Is Vax Status Relevant to Trad Courting?
    « Reply #23 on: January 20, 2022, 10:10:12 AM »
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    • Quote from: Matthew on January 20, 2022, 09:47:22 AM
    This has been touched on, but not sufficiently underlined:

    What IS the purpose of courtship? To get to know your spouse. You are making a LIFE LONG commitment, you are going to be yoked together for better or worse. You better know who you're going to be yoked to! Will they stand up for the truth? Will they fight evil? Will they lay down and just "go along to get along"? Those are all VERY, VERY important things to learn about your potential spouse BEFORE marriage.

    The most important thing -- what kind of Catholic are they. But even that is related to the vax! Are they willing to stand up against the world? Go against the grain? Fight the dominant opinion, the peer pressure out there in the world? If not, that says they will probably apostatize at some point. Might not be pleasant, but it's a fact.

    The world does NOT make it easy these days. Today, worse than ever. Unless you're near-heroic, you're NOT GONNA MAKE IT.

    To that end it would be important to understand WHY they got jabbed, not just that they did.  Did they take advice from some SSPX priest or was it due to social pressure?  Did they dismiss people who were anti-jab as "conspiracy theorists" ... because they don't understand that the world is rules by forces hostile to both the Church and to humanity?

    Of course, there's also the question about possible future birth defects for childen of jabbed parents.
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    Offline Tallinn Trad

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    Re: Is Vax Status Relevant to Trad Courting?
    « Reply #24 on: January 20, 2022, 10:18:35 AM »
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    • You cannot look at this in isolation it makes no sense at all to do so.  It is one-dimensional thinking.

    Let's assume a scenario where MRNA vaccines cause significant long term health problems.  Increased rates of cancer, sterilization, high rate of miscarriage, damage to sperm, higher likelihood of heart attack in males.

    1.  This won't be immediately known or fully understood.  Long term medical problems will only be fully understood in the long term.  They will become INCREASINGLY suspected, then known and estimated and over a period of a decade they will be better understood as long term effect.

    2.  ALL MEN AND WOMEN in the western democracies that took MRNA vaccines will be affected, not just Traditionalists.  Unjabbed women and men will have a much higher market value, because frankly who wants to marry someone with health issues or who is sterilized? Or will die and leave you alone at 50? Nearly all western democracies Europe and America and Canada took MRNA vaccines.  China, Russia, Brazil and India did not.

    3.  If the number of Traditional Catholic women and men who are vaccinated is I suspect much lower than the national average then demand will exceed supply and it might be MORE difficult for unvaccinated to marry a Traditionalist from their own country.

    4.  All of this would take place in an environment where 65% to 90% of the population was vaccinated, the economy would be depressed, people would lack optimism and hope because they were poisoned.  Governments would topple.
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    Offline SeanJohnson

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    Re: Is Vax Status Relevant to Trad Courting?
    « Reply #25 on: January 20, 2022, 11:50:25 AM »
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    • I can foresee the plausibility of a conversation like this in the future:

    Young Man: "Mr. Johnson, I'd like to ask your permission and blessing to ask your daughter to marry me."

    Me: "May I ask, young man, what your vaccination status is?"

    Young Man: "Huh?"

    Me: "I'll explain shortly, but just answer, please."

    Young Man: "Well, yes, I am fully vaccinated against COVID."

    Me: "Well, in that case, I will not be able to permit my daughter to marry you."

    Young Man: "But what does that have to do with anything?"

    Me: [Begin recounting all the considerations in this thread, which do not bode well for a pairing.]
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    Offline Tallinn Trad

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    Re: Is Vax Status Relevant to Trad Courting?
    « Reply #26 on: January 20, 2022, 12:49:01 PM »
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    • Assuming we still live in a democratic system the vaccinated will be in a majority in most countries.  So they will simply bring in a law that your medical records are sealed and asking your vaccine status is against your right to privacy.  They might even expunge the medical records if it causes friction.  The majority has some power.

    Thus the above conversation might simply end up in him saying "no", because many will claim to be unvaccinated.

    Change the line what your vaccination status is, to how often do you watch porn on-line and see how many young men answer the father honestly.

    With that said, what percentage of young men and women in tradlands are vaccinated?  A very low number I suspect.  Way less than 10%.  Only 1/3 of children aged 15-21 in the general population in the UK are vaccinated.  Trads will be MUCH MUCH lower.

    I have not see a mask for ages in the SSPX masses or the other Latin Masses I go to.  
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    Offline SeanJohnson

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    Re: Is Vax Status Relevant to Trad Courting?
    « Reply #27 on: January 20, 2022, 12:59:18 PM »
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    • Quote from: Tallinn Trad on January 20, 2022, 12:49:01 PM
    Assuming we still live in a democratic system the vaccinated will be in a majority in most countries.  So they will simply bring in a law that your medical records are sealed and asking your vaccine status is against your right to privacy.  They might even expunge the medical records if it causes friction.  The majority has some power.

    Thus the above conversation might simply end up in him saying "no", because many will claim to be unvaccinated.

    Change the line what your vaccination status is, to how often do you watch porn on-line and see how many young men answer the father honestly.

    With that said, what percentage of young men and women in tradlands are vaccinated?  A very low number I suspect.  Way less than 10%.  Only 1/3 of children aged 15-21 in the general population in the UK are vaccinated.  Trads will be MUCH MUCH lower.

    I have not see a mask for ages in the SSPX masses or the other Latin Masses I go to. 

    Your last couple posts are rather prevaricating:

    You are not answering the question, but instead seeking to dismiss it altogether (e.g., by making statistical arguments which suggest courtships between vaxed and unvaxed trads are unlikely in the first place).

    Its as though you don't want the issue to be relevant, but you never address the concerns adduced above in cases where the vaxed and unvaxed are or will be courting, preferring instead to pre-empt the possibility of two such trads coming together at all (or suggesting that the number of such courtships will be so few as to not be worthy of consideration, even though these hypothetical few will also have souls to save).

    OK, then leaving aside the fact that every SSPX teacher in New Zealand is vaxed, and that we've all probably known those SSPXers who say they'd take the jab rather than watch their families (allegedly) go hungry, for the sake of argument, let's stick with your 10% vaxed number:

    In these courtships, is vax status a pertinent issue?  Why or why not?
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    Offline Pax Vobis

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    Re: Is Vax Status Relevant to Trad Courting?
    « Reply #28 on: January 20, 2022, 02:23:17 PM »
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    Assuming we still live in a democratic system the vaccinated will be in a majority in most countries.  So they will simply bring in a law that your medical records are sealed and asking your vaccine status is against your right to privacy.  They might even expunge the medical records if it causes friction.  The majority has some power.

    Thus the above conversation might simply end up in him saying "no", because many will claim to be unvaccinated.
    1.  You're assuming the jabbed will stay alive long enough to benefit from privacy laws.
    2.  Most jabbed people are proud and open about their status, so why would they need privacy?
    3.  Every US-health-privacy law only pertains to businesses/govt.  You can't outlaw some asking the question "Are you jabbed?"  That's free speech (at least in the US).
    4.  It would be very easy to "spot a liar" when it comes to the jabbed conversation.  You just keep probing the conversation and start making comments about health freedom and how the govt lies to us and natural remedies, etc.  Most jabbed won't be able to handle the "anti mainstream, anti-sheeple" thinking and will explode with "jab righteousness!" and self-defense.  :laugh1:

    Quote
    With that said, what percentage of young men and women in tradlands are vaccinated?  A very low number I suspect.  Way less than 10%.
    Considering that we have the new-sspx, +Sanborn and +Dolan all arguing it's ok, I think 10% is WAY too low.

    Quote
    Only 1/3 of children aged 15-21 in the general population in the UK are vaccinated.  Trads will be MUCH MUCH lower.
    ?? 
    1.  Teenagers aged 15-21 are one of the last categories to be able to take it.  Too early to tally statistics.
    2.  Teenagers aged 15-21?  What about ADULTS aged 22-35?  They are the ones facing pressure from their jobs; they are ones in the "dating pool".

    Quote
    I have not see a mask for ages in the SSPX masses or the other Latin Masses I go to.
    Sure, you don't see people wearing masks, but their priests are giving sermons about how it's ok to take the jab.  :facepalm:
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    Offline Tallinn Trad

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    Re: Is Vax Status Relevant to Trad Courting?
    « Reply #29 on: January 20, 2022, 02:40:54 PM »
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    • 1.  You're assuming the jabbed will stay alive long enough to benefit from privacy laws.

    If they don't then you will have 100 million dead in North America in 10 years and another 100m sick or looking after sick people.

    2.  Most jabbed people are proud and open about their status, so why would they need privacy?

    Because they won't be proud if it being vaccinated greatly increases the risk of making them sick or unemployable later in life.

    3.  Every US-health-privacy law only pertains to businesses/govt.  You can't outlaw some asking the question "Are you jabbed?"  That's free speech (at least in the US).

    Sure, you can ask, but you cannot find out the truth if there are strict privacy laws.

    4.  It would be very easy to "spot a liar" when it comes to the jabbed conversation.  You just keep probing the conversation and start making comments about health freedom and how the govt lies to us and natural remedies, etc.  Most jabbed won't be able to handle the "anti mainstream, anti-sheeple" thinking and will explode with "jab righteousness!" and self-defence. 


    Now they might, at the stage where the vaccine was the mark of Cain they would not.

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