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Author Topic: IS THIS TRUE?  (Read 6562 times)

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Offline Infirmus

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IS THIS TRUE?
« on: August 09, 2024, 08:07:48 AM »
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  •  Found this-

    If Bishop Thuc had been a true traditional Catholic bishop, he would have been faithful to the great responsibility God had placed on his shoulders as a successor of the Apostles, i.e., to recognize that all his “efforts must aim at preserving the truth faith.” (Cath. Ency., Bishops, Obligations) When Vatican Council II was threatening to shipwreck the spiritual welfare of his flock, his obligation to take a firm stand with orthodoxy was greater than ever, for “if it is dangerous for the helmsman to leave the ship when the sea is calm, how much more so when it is stormy.” (Pope Nicholas I, cf. VII, qu. i, can. Sciscitaris). His solemn responsibility, as a chosen vessel of God, was “not to personally desert his flock, neither on account of any temporal convenience nor on account of any imminent personal danger, as the good shepherd ought to lay down his life for his sheep.” (St. Thomas, Summa, 2nd of 2nd, 185, 5) Such is the role of a bishop in relation to his flock when spiritual danger lurks.
    So when it became obvious that Vatican Council II was attempting to destroy Catholicism, and do not to preserve it, where was Bishop Thuc? Where is to be found the record of him “preserving the true faith” at Vatican Council II? The answer is that there is no record of him doing this. He was silent while Catholicism was being assaulted. Was the reason that Bishop Thuc didn’t speak out at the Council in defense of true Catholicism due to the fact that he was simply a timid old man, too cowardly to speak out, as some have suggested? The record shows that he was not afraid to speak out, and speak out as he indeed did so but never against the errors of Vatican Council II though; on the contrary, shockingly, he railed against the Council because it wasn’t liberal enough!  Below are two quotes from Bishop Thuc given at Vatican Council II:


    Much of the quoted material given below in this section on Bishop Thuc is grammatically ungainly, but in an effort to preserve accuracy, it is presented without modification, unless otherwise noted.

    “With great consolation I see present in these assemblies the delegates of the non-Catholic Christian Churches, to be witnesses of our fraternity, sincerity and liberty. But where are the delegates or observers of the non-Christians? Do they then not need this wondrous sight of the unity of the Catholic Church? Or do they not need an explanation of our Christian faith? What! do the people whom they represent not form a third part—or rather more truly the greater part— of these scattered sheep that Christ eagerly desired to enter into one sheepfold? The scandal coming to the whole world from the absence of any invitations sent to the chiefs of the non-Christian religions I expounded in the central commission—but in vain. I earnestly begged the council to make good the omission, so that this most loathsome discrimination between some religions and religions may not longer be found. This absence of an invitation to the heads of the Christian religions confirms in a certain manner that prejudice creeping through the Asiatic and African world: ‘The Catholic Church is a church for men of white color and not for colored men.’” (Acta Synodalia Vaticani II, vol. 2, part 1, pp. 358-359) 

    “…it seems to me an extraordinary thing that in the schema concerning the people of God, express mention is nowhere made of women, so that the Church appears totally masculine, whereas the reality is quite different. Do not women constitute the greater part of the laity—even of ecclesiastical prescriptions? Of course I well know the Church had to behave like this in order not to offend the prejudices of those ages. Thus, St. Paul imposed the veil on women in Church, lest they displease the angels. So why must men proudly enter the church bareheaded which is contrary to the custom of clerics today both in the West and the East? In the same way, silence was imposed on women whereas in this Basilica the walls recently resounded to the voices of the Fathers. So to, nuns must obtain the permission of churches to wash the sacred linens. And likewise this unjust discrimination appears here and now in this conciliar hall… Why is it that in our atomic age, when almost everywhere in the world women have obtained juridical equality with men, it is only in the Church of Christ that they still suffer these injurious discriminations… I eagerly seek… these discriminations against the most valiant sex be eradicated. Last of all I shall be grateful to him who can present me with a plain apodictic text of the Gospel which excludes the sisters of the Blessed Virgin Mary from the sacred functions.” (Acta Synodalia Vaticani II, vol. 2, part 3, pp. 513)


    Online Viva Cristo Rey

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    Re: IS THIS TRUE?
    « Reply #1 on: August 09, 2024, 08:10:04 AM »
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  • May he rest in peace. You need to think about your own faith.  Read your Bible , pray your rosary etc. 
    May God bless you and keep you


    Offline Emile

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    Re: IS THIS TRUE?
    « Reply #2 on: August 09, 2024, 08:15:55 AM »
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  • Found this-

    If Bishop Thuc had been a true traditional Catholic bishop, he would have been faithful to the great responsibility God had placed on his shoulders as a successor of the Apostles, i.e., to recognize that all his “efforts must aim at preserving the truth faith.” (Cath. Ency., Bishops, Obligations) When Vatican Council II was threatening to shipwreck the spiritual welfare of his flock, his obligation to take a firm stand with orthodoxy was greater than ever, for “if it is dangerous for the helmsman to leave the ship when the sea is calm, how much more so when it is stormy.” (Pope Nicholas I, cf. VII, qu. i, can. Sciscitaris). His solemn responsibility, as a chosen vessel of God, was “not to personally desert his flock, neither on account of any temporal convenience nor on account of any imminent personal danger, as the good shepherd ought to lay down his life for his sheep.” (St. Thomas, Summa, 2nd of 2nd, 185, 5) Such is the role of a bishop in relation to his flock when spiritual danger lurks.
    So when it became obvious that Vatican Council II was attempting to destroy Catholicism, and do not to preserve it, where was Bishop Thuc? Where is to be found the record of him “preserving the true faith” at Vatican Council II? The answer is that there is no record of him doing this. He was silent while Catholicism was being assaulted. Was the reason that Bishop Thuc didn’t speak out at the Council in defense of true Catholicism due to the fact that he was simply a timid old man, too cowardly to speak out, as some have suggested? The record shows that he was not afraid to speak out, and speak out as he indeed did so but never against the errors of Vatican Council II though; on the contrary, shockingly, he railed against the Council because it wasn’t liberal enough!  Below are two quotes from Bishop Thuc given at Vatican Council II:


    Much of the quoted material given below in this section on Bishop Thuc is grammatically ungainly, but in an effort to preserve accuracy, it is presented without modification, unless otherwise noted.

    “With great consolation I see present in these assemblies the delegates of the non-Catholic Christian Churches, to be witnesses of our fraternity, sincerity and liberty. But where are the delegates or observers of the non-Christians? Do they then not need this wondrous sight of the unity of the Catholic Church? Or do they not need an explanation of our Christian faith? What! do the people whom they represent not form a third part—or rather more truly the greater part— of these scattered sheep that Christ eagerly desired to enter into one sheepfold? The scandal coming to the whole world from the absence of any invitations sent to the chiefs of the non-Christian religions I expounded in the central commission—but in vain. I earnestly begged the council to make good the omission, so that this most loathsome discrimination between some religions and religions may not longer be found. This absence of an invitation to the heads of the Christian religions confirms in a certain manner that prejudice creeping through the Asiatic and African world: ‘The Catholic Church is a church for men of white color and not for colored men.’” (Acta Synodalia Vaticani II, vol. 2, part 1, pp. 358-359)

    “…it seems to me an extraordinary thing that in the schema concerning the people of God, express mention is nowhere made of women, so that the Church appears totally masculine, whereas the reality is quite different. Do not women constitute the greater part of the laity—even of ecclesiastical prescriptions? Of course I well know the Church had to behave like this in order not to offend the prejudices of those ages. Thus, St. Paul imposed the veil on women in Church, lest they displease the angels. So why must men proudly enter the church bareheaded which is contrary to the custom of clerics today both in the West and the East? In the same way, silence was imposed on women whereas in this Basilica the walls recently resounded to the voices of the Fathers. So to, nuns must obtain the permission of churches to wash the sacred linens. And likewise this unjust discrimination appears here and now in this conciliar hall… Why is it that in our atomic age, when almost everywhere in the world women have obtained juridical equality with men, it is only in the Church of Christ that they still suffer these injurious discriminations… I eagerly seek… these discriminations against the most valiant sex be eradicated. Last of all I shall be grateful to him who can present me with a plain apodictic text of the Gospel which excludes the sisters of the Blessed Virgin Mary from the sacred functions.” (Acta Synodalia Vaticani II, vol. 2, part 3, pp. 513)

    Please be considerate enough to give a link for your citations: The ministry and validity of Mons. Thuc – Monasterio Benedictino San José
    If only it were all so simple! If only there were evil people somewhere insidiously committing evil deeds, and it were necessary only to separate them from the rest of us and destroy them. But the line dividing good and evil cuts through the heart of every human being. And who is willing to destroy a piece of his own heart?

    ― Aleksandr Solzhenitsyn, The Gulag Archipelago

    Offline StAndrew

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    Re: IS THIS TRUE?
    « Reply #3 on: August 09, 2024, 08:43:52 AM »
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  • Were there any bishops who didn't sign all the docuмents of Vatican II?

    Thuc is saying, basically, if you're going to open the floodgates, then open the floodgates. If you're going to invite some heretical religions, why not invite all of them? Aren't they all lost sheep?

    Abp. Lefebvre signed all the docs too. Did he ever retract his signature? (I do not know.) Is there a limit of time that one has to question Vatican II?

    Offline MiserereMei

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    Re: IS THIS TRUE?
    « Reply #4 on: August 09, 2024, 08:46:33 AM »
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  • I don't know whether it's true or not, but Si iniquitàtes observàveris, Dòmine, Dòmine, quis sustinèbit? If true, we don't know the circuмstances. Better focus on what he did towards the end of his life. Consider St. Dismas, the best example of a last minute Saint despite of what he did during his lifetime.


    Offline Gray2023

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    Re: IS THIS TRUE?
    « Reply #5 on: August 09, 2024, 08:54:50 AM »
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  • Infirmus, what is your purpose for these posts?  Are you truly trying to understand the actions of +Thuc or are you just trying to ruffle feathers? 

    And why are you yelling your questions?  That is what all caps implies.
    1 Corinthians: Chapter 13 "4 Charity is patient, is kind: charity envieth not, dealeth not perversely; is not puffed up; 5 Is not ambitious, seeketh not her own, is not provoked to anger, thinketh no evil;"

    Offline Mark 79

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    Re: IS THIS TRUE?
    « Reply #6 on: August 09, 2024, 09:41:13 AM »
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  • Infirmus, what is your purpose for these posts?  Are you truly trying to understand the actions of +Thuc or are you just trying to ruffle feathers? 

    And why are you yelling your questions?  That is what all caps implies.
    Truly!

    And the corollary questions…

    Who the hell is Infirmus to sit as Judge on Abp. Thuc???

    What the hell has Infirmus done that qualifies him to pass sentence on the worth of Abp. Thuc???

    Infirmus's proud arrogance and usurpation is astounding.

    Offline Giovanni Berto

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    Re: IS THIS TRUE?
    « Reply #7 on: August 09, 2024, 10:13:11 AM »
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  • Infirmus actually has a a very adequate username.

    He is probably not a stupid twelve-year-old boy, since he seems to be somewhat cunning.

    I would say that he is a deliberate troll and that his username is meant to make fun of us.

    In my opinion, he's done enough to deserve a ban.


    Offline Infirmus

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    Re: IS THIS TRUE?
    « Reply #8 on: August 09, 2024, 10:18:45 AM »
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  • OOPS SORRY Gray2023 I mean oops sorry.
    If this is true that he said this at V2 it is quite the game changer. I will look into it. 

    Offline Gray2023

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    Re: IS THIS TRUE?
    « Reply #9 on: August 09, 2024, 10:24:27 AM »
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  • OOPS SORRY Gray2023 I mean oops sorry.
    If this is true that he said this at V2 it is quite the game changer. I will look into it.
    How is it a game changer?  A game changer for what?  I still don't know what you are trying to figure out.
    1 Corinthians: Chapter 13 "4 Charity is patient, is kind: charity envieth not, dealeth not perversely; is not puffed up; 5 Is not ambitious, seeketh not her own, is not provoked to anger, thinketh no evil;"

    Offline 2Vermont

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    Re: IS THIS TRUE?
    « Reply #10 on: August 09, 2024, 10:25:06 AM »
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  • Well, at least he wasn't brash.  :laugh1::popcorn:


    Offline Infirmus

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    Re: IS THIS TRUE?
    « Reply #11 on: August 09, 2024, 10:31:14 AM »
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  • Infirmus actually has a a very adequate username.

    He is probably not a stupid twelve-year-old boy, since he seems to be somewhat cunning.

    I would say that he is a deliberate troll and that his username is meant to make fun of us.

    In my opinion, he's done enough to deserve a ban.
    After looking at what some sede priests and bishops say about Archbishop Lefebvre I would be inclined to suggest the contrary about who and what should be banned.

    Offline 2Vermont

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    Re: IS THIS TRUE?
    « Reply #12 on: August 09, 2024, 10:35:27 AM »
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  • After looking at what some sede priests and bishops say about Archbishop Lefebvre I would be inclined to suggest the contrary about who and what should be banned.
    So, who and what do you think should be banned here?

    Offline Infirmus

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    Re: IS THIS TRUE?
    « Reply #13 on: August 09, 2024, 10:47:14 AM »
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  • How is it a game changer?  A game changer for what?  I still don't know what you are trying to figure out.
    If it is true then he was very liberal which would explain Troya and allegations of other consecrations. Actions can be explained by digging at the roots.

    Offline Gray2023

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    Re: IS THIS TRUE?
    « Reply #14 on: August 09, 2024, 10:49:56 AM »
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  • So, who and what do you think should be banned here?
    I am thinking it is the same old argument.  If sedes didn't exist then everything would be peachy king.

    Why do people get so hyper-focused on the past?  We can't change it. 

    1 Corinthians: Chapter 13 "4 Charity is patient, is kind: charity envieth not, dealeth not perversely; is not puffed up; 5 Is not ambitious, seeketh not her own, is not provoked to anger, thinketh no evil;"