Author Topic: Is the SSPX part of the Church, or a cult? (Read 16142 times)

John Grace · « **Reply #60 on:** October 28, 2014, 11:37:03 AM »

CathMomof7

Quote

I know people there who will never leave.

A realistic analysis.

Matthew · « **Reply #61 on:** October 31, 2014, 02:14:36 PM »

Quote from: peterp

Quote from: Matthew
Think about this carefully:

Is the SSPX (in all its chapels) supposed to be a disinterested outpost of the One True Church, or a private club set up for its own benefit?

This is likely to evince an emotional reaction, regardless of your position. But let's think about it logically. ...

Well, what if we think about this logically:

If this resistance has nothing to do with personalities then it would make no difference to a resister, whatsoever, who said or did what, i.e. the when, where, why and how of it all.

Image for one moment, in an alternate universe, where the words and actions of Bp. Williamson and Bp. de Galarreta were reversed. Eleison Comments was Bp. de Galarreta's column. It was him who got himself expelled from the SSPX, called on her priests to the desert, even promoted this alleged seer and, of course, attended Iona meetings and the like. Whereas Bp. Williamson led the doctrinal discussions and, amongst other things, sang the praises of the six conditions (http://www.dici.org/en/news/the-useful-lesson-from-the-recent-trial) etc.

How many, certainly of the English speaking resisters, can honestly say, in their heart, that they would have done exactly the same and followed Bp. de Galarreta and, consequently, now be in opposition to Bp. Williamson?

The answer is none, and everyone knows it. There would be no Recusant in England, no Resistance chapels in the U.S. etc.

The Resistance has the hallmarks of a personality cult.

You're full of it up to your eyeballs, my good man.

Countless faithful Catholics followed +Lefebvre back in the day, even though he had a thick French accent. He didn't even speak English, if I'm not mistaken!

In your alternate reality, I assure you I'd be following the faithful Bishop, whoever he was. I'm sure others would too.

You're just biased and convinced that the Resistance is bad, which is why you're not part of it. You're stubborn and you don't have a lot of reasons to back it up.

People admire and follow courage and the Truth. In the reality I live in, that is Bishop Williamson's territory. That's the only reason I "follow" him.

mw2016 · « **Reply #62 on:** December 15, 2016, 06:30:38 PM »

Is the SSPX a cult?

Yes.

Fifteen years ago I might have answered differently.

But, today, I say yes.

Motorede · « **Reply #63 on:** December 16, 2016, 05:49:09 AM »

Quote from: mw2016

Is the SSPX a cult?

Yes.

Quote
Fifteen years ago I might have answered differently.

But, today, I say yes.

I wouldn't have answered differently twenty years ago. SSPX began with the good purpose of training men for the priesthood and shortly after fell to the vanity: "We are the saviors of the Church." This vanity was more prevalent in the USA than in Europe, imo, and I don't think the Archbishop was aware of it.

Matthew · « **Reply #64 on:** December 16, 2016, 05:57:01 AM »

Quote from: mw2016

Is the SSPX a cult?

Yes.

Fifteen years ago I might have answered differently.

But, today, I say yes.

You need to realize, though, that it isn't YOU that has "changed" between 15 years ago and today. It's the SSPX that has changed.

15 years ago, they might have had a few subtle, under the surface Messianic delusions here and there, but that was far outweighed by all the good they were doing for the Church and for Tradition (but I repeat myself).

There's nothing hypocritical about fervently supporting the SSPX in 2000 but opposing it fiercely in 2016. If I woke up tomorrow in the year 2000 (don't ask me how that would happen) I'd just as quickly go back to supporting it. There was no reason NOT to fervently support the SSPX, and I mean with all one's energy, time, and resources, back in 2000.

That's precisely what I did, and I have nothing to apologize for in that regard. I am honored to have supported a good, holy, work of God -- the work of Archbishop Lefebvre to preserve Tradition -- both in 2000 when I joined an SSPX seminary, and in 2016 as I support the Resistance. The fight is the same in both cases.

Incredulous · « **Reply #65 on:** December 16, 2016, 06:30:05 AM »

Quote from: Motorede

Quote from: mw2016
Is the SSPX a cult?

Yes.

Quote
Fifteen years ago I might have answered differently.

But, today, I say yes.

I wouldn't have answered differently twenty years ago. SSPX began with the good purpose of training men for the priesthood and shortly after fell to the vanity: "We are the saviors of the Church." This vanity was more prevalent in the USA than in Europe, imo, and I don't think the Archbishop was aware of it.

Promises of ecclesiastical grandeur and 80 millions Euros can change a man's perspective.

mw2016 · « **Reply #66 on:** December 16, 2016, 09:23:32 AM »

Quote from: Matthew

Quote from: mw2016
Is the SSPX a cult?

Yes.

Fifteen years ago I might have answered differently.

But, today, I say yes.

You need to realize, though, that it isn't YOU that has "changed" between 15 years ago and today. It's the SSPX that has changed.

I agree with everything you wrote.

mw2016 · « **Reply #67 on:** December 16, 2016, 09:24:40 AM »

Quote from: Incredulous

Promises of ecclesiastical grandeur and 80 millions Euros can change a man's perspective.

Ain't that the truth.

songbird · « **Reply #68 on:** December 17, 2016, 12:01:07 PM »

Yes, it is a cult. Sad to say. I too, would not have thought that 15 years ago.
We must remember Chapter 12 of Daniel, the Mass will end.

MyrnaM · « **Reply #69 on:** December 17, 2016, 01:17:39 PM »

The Mass will end but there will always be a pale light.

Alexandria · « **Reply #70 on:** December 17, 2016, 01:47:39 PM »

Quote from: mw2016

Is the SSPX a cult?

Yes.

Fifteen years ago I might have answered differently.

But, today, I say yes.

Ditto

Gabriella · « **Reply #71 on:** December 17, 2016, 09:37:57 PM »

I guess I don't know enough about it but please define "cult" and tell me how SSPX is a cult since many of you seem so sure.

Thank you.

mw2016 · « **Reply #72 on:** December 17, 2016, 10:36:44 PM »

I do not have the energy to look up a list of "characteristics of a cult" on some website, but I am willing to wager that the SSPX fulfills about 90% of whatever those characteristics are.

Gabriella · « **Reply #73 on:** December 19, 2016, 01:16:41 AM »

Quote from: mw2016

I do not have the energy to look up a list of "characteristics of a cult" on some website, but I am willing to wager that the SSPX fulfills about 90% of whatever those characteristics are.

Well that would be an important thing to do since it is not clear here what is meant by using the word "cult". There are definitions of "cult" that a lot of things would fit under. Maybe if the term is that hard to define it might be better to use a different word.