Author Topic: Is the SSPX an order or pious union (Read 3879 times)

pbax · « **on:** January 06, 2014, 08:12:29 PM »

Was asked this Question, Is the SSPX an order or pious union? I said it is an Order but now am not too sure. Can anyone one confirm either way?

Nadir · « **Reply #1 on:** January 06, 2014, 08:28:15 PM »

Hi, Pbax, I'm no expert but my understanding is that they are not an order because they are "without vows".

For more on orders, congregations and religious life see http://www.newadvent.org/cathen/12748b.htm

http://sspx.org/en/about

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The Society of St. Pius X is an international priestly society of common life without vows, whose purpose is to train, support, and encourage holy priests so that they may effectively spread the Catholic faith throughout the world.

The SSPX was founded in 1970 by Archbishop Marcel Lefebvre in the diocese of Fribourg, Switzerland, adhering to all canonical norms, receiving the blessing and encouragement of the local bishop.

Matto · « **Reply #2 on:** January 06, 2014, 08:42:20 PM »

The SSPX was erected as a pious union, not an order. I am not sure of what the differences are between pious unions and orders.

Sigismund · « **Reply #3 on:** January 06, 2014, 09:09:08 PM »

I have heard that the proper designation is "Society of Common Life without Vows". Like the Oratorians.

Pete Vere · « **Reply #4 on:** January 06, 2014, 09:56:23 PM »

Neither, nor. Because their canonical status is irregular with regards to the Holy See, the FSSPX is basically a canonical entity unto itself, subject to its own rules and regulations. If I recall correctly, this is why the Holy See (I believe it was the Roman Rota) refused to hear Fr. Aulagnier's attempt to appeal of his expulsion from the FSSPX by Mgr Fellay. A more recent example is Mgr Williamson's expulsion from the FSSPX, which I believe followed a process completely internal to the FSSPX.

pbax · « **Reply #5 on:** January 06, 2014, 10:13:20 PM »

Quote from: Sigismund

I have heard that the proper designation is "Society of Common Life without Vows". Like the Oratorians.

The religious of the SSPX take vows

Against the Heresies · « **Reply #6 on:** January 07, 2014, 12:50:53 AM »

Quote from: pbax

Quote from: Sigismund
I have heard that the proper designation is "Society of Common Life without Vows". Like the Oratorians.

The religious of the SSPX take vows

But just private ones (in a canonical sense) which anybody can make.

Against the Heresies · « **Reply #7 on:** January 07, 2014, 12:56:44 AM »

Quote from: pbax

Was asked this Question, Is the SSPX an order or pious union? I said it is an Order but now am not too sure. Can anyone one confirm either way?

Regina Coeli Report - Jan 2006:

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It is true that Archbishop Lefebvre founded the
Society of Saint Pius X as a pious union of priests
who live in common, but without taking the vows of
religion. However, inspired by the holiness of the
brothers he knew well as a Holy Ghost Father
missionary, he also envisioned and implemented the
inclusion of brothers into the SSPX to be its male
religious arm. These brothers would be in his own
words, the “angels of our communities”, assisting his
priests in practicing their apostolate (by not being
encuмbered with many practical necessities), and
through their religious life providing an example and
source of stability and holiness for the priests to draw
from.

Matthew · « **Reply #8 on:** January 07, 2014, 12:59:04 AM »

Yes, the SSPX is pious union of priests living a common life without vows.

pbax · « **Reply #9 on:** January 07, 2014, 03:20:52 AM »

Quote from: Matthew

Yes, the SSPX is pious union of priests living a common life without vows.

Thanks, so if it is only a Pious Union then BF doesn’t have the authority to expel all these priests and BW…….is that correct?

Pete Vere · « **Reply #10 on:** January 07, 2014, 07:09:18 AM »

Quote from: pbax

Quote from: Matthew
Yes, the SSPX is pious union of priests living a common life without vows.

Thanks, so if it is only a Pious Union then BF doesn’t have the authority to expel all these priests and BW…….is that correct?

Again, see my initial response on this thread. Because of the irregular and unrecognized canonical situation vis-a-vis the Holy See, the FSSPX is a canonical entity unto itself. If the FSSPX recognizes in Mgr Fellay the authority to expel these priests and Mgr Williamson - which apparently it does - then Mgr Fellay possesses this authority.

JPaul · « **Reply #11 on:** January 07, 2014, 05:09:29 PM »

Quote from: Pete Vere

Quote from: pbax
Quote from: Matthew
Yes, the SSPX is pious union of priests living a common life without vows.

Thanks, so if it is only a Pious Union then BF doesn’t have the authority to expel all these priests and BW…….is that correct?

Again, see my initial response on this thread. Because of the irregular and unrecognized canonical situation vis-a-vis the Holy See, the FSSPX is a canonical entity unto itself. If the FSSPX recognizes in Mgr Fellay the authority to expel these priests and Mgr Williamson - which apparently it does - then Mgr Fellay possesses this authority.

This idea seems a bit on the scale of a phenomenon, Bishop Fellay has authority because the Society perceives that he has that authority. Apparently someone recognizes their situation as canonical, otherwise how do they perceive that he has authority. Which beggars the question, Is the SSPX giving itself its own authority?

Frances · « **Reply #12 on:** January 07, 2014, 11:02:21 PM »

:dancing-banana:The SSPX is a pious union, not a religious order. A better question regarding the authority of Bp. Fellay is to ask, What is the scope and limit of his authority as SG? Keep in mind that ALL authority is from God, whether for good or evil. Those whom He allows to sit in place of authority will be judged accordingly. Authority does NOT originate by consent of the governed. Nothing personal, but Americanists are in error.

JPaul · « **Reply #13 on:** January 08, 2014, 07:44:34 AM »

Quote from: Frances

:dancing-banana:The SSPX is a pious union, not a religious order. A better question regarding the authority of Bp. Fellay is to ask, What is the scope and limit of his authority as SG? Keep in mind that ALL authority is from God, whether for good or evil. Those whom He allows to sit in place of authority will be judged accordingly. Authority does NOT originate by consent of the governed. Nothing personal, but Americanists are in error.

I would propose that it is neither, it has left those realities behind and become an international business enterprise whose product is religious goods, and as such Bishop Fellay wields the corporate authority of any other CEO who is hiring and firing according to the needs of the business model which has been adopted.

His authority is in reality secular and not ecclesiastical.

Pete Vere · « **Reply #14 on:** January 08, 2014, 07:52:00 AM »

Quote from: J.Paul

This idea seems a bit on the scale of a phenomenon, Bishop Fellay has authority because the Society perceives that he has that authority.

Look at the facts from the last year-and-a-half. Mgr. Fellay and Mgr Williamson had a very public dispute over the direction that the FSSPX ought to take. Mgr Fellay declared Mgr Williamson removed from the FSSPX. Mgr Williamson called for Mgr Fellay's removal as Superior General.

A year-and-a-half later, Mgr Williamson is part of the Resistance and not the official FSSPX. In contrast, Mgr. Fellay is still Superior General of the official FSSPX.

One can make all sorts of canonical arguments about whether or not Mgr. Fellay is legitimately head of the FSSPX, or whether his actions as Superior General are valid. But at the end of the day, they are being enforced by the majority within the FSSPX.

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Apparently someone recognizes their situation as canonical, otherwise how do they perceive that he has authority.

Exactly.

Moreover, there is no higher human authority for Mgr Fellay's opponents to appeal to, that would be accepted by the majority within the FSSPX. One could appeal to God, who most certainly will be the judge come the afterlife, but so far in this lifetime God is allowing Mgr Fellay and his supporters to continue in charge of the FSSPX.

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Which beggars the question, Is the SSPX giving itself its own authority?

I am sure if one were to ask Mgr Fellay and his supporters to justify their authority concerning these actions, they would appeal to "supplied jurisdiction" and "state-of-necessity."