A few relevent quotes, in order to set the tone and atmosphere of a worthy debate:

“…war, in the realm of ideas, causes one to think or die. It can vitalize the senses and sharpen the wits, or it can cause one to wither into a shell of a man. Clarity of thought can be the result of the conflict of ideas as long as a gentleman’s understanding is in place and Christian charity reigns supreme.”
Father Doran, SSPX      
“The full value of this life can only be got by fighting, the violent take it by storm. And if we have accepted everything we have missed something—war. This life of ours is a very enjoyable fight, but a very miserable truce.”   G.K. Chesterton

Introduction and Topic:
My family is currently on the “Battleship SSPX”.  There are still many priests and laity who I have much respect for; many are still fighting and fulfilling their duties “on board”.  However, there are a few priests who have looked at the “ship’s damages” and have chosen to leave on a lifeboat called “Conscientious Objection”.  I have looked at the damages myself, and have listed my findings below.  I currently believe Bishop Fellay has undermined the very authority and mission of Jesus Christ and of Archbishop Lefebvre (being one and the same).   However, I will change my opinion if there are higher arguments to be found.

I am hoping to engage in an OPEN and FRANK discussion about nothing less than our Roman Catholic Faith and its future.  Can those of you who are willing and able, please try to confirm or deny my findings?  My ultimate goal is to find the TRUTH, and to make a final decision for my family accordingly.  Suffering is of no consequence; I must either carry my cross on the “Battleship SSPX”, or on the small lifeboat “Conscientious Objection”.   (Or, just maybe, a third option is to be found, like “repairing and refitting” the existing ship?  God’s will be done.)

God bless,  
Curtis Bartel

Let the debate begin!     :boxer:


My personal opinion of the “Battleship SSPX” damages:
Sins against Justice:  
(1)  Bishop Williamson has yet to receive a formal letter of apology for the “mishandling” of the Swedish interview incident.  (Did Bishop Williamson lie?  Did he willfully instigate trouble, or “stir the pot”?  Did Bishop Williamson sin against Faith, Hope, Charity, or Justice?  
(2)  Father Hewko has yet to receive a formal apology for being rebuked by Father Rostand, concerning the sermon he gave in Winona.  (Did Father Hewko sin against Faith, Hope, or Charity during his sermon?  Was he willfully disobedient to his superior?  Did he do his best to obey both God and man, but God first?)  
Sins against Faith:  
(1) The six conditions (still in effect) for a practical agreement.  
(2) The response from Bishop Fellay to the other 3 Bishops (concerning a practical agreement).
Sins against Hope:  
(1) The six conditions (still in effect) for a practical agreement.  
(2) The response from Bishop Fellay to the other 3 Bishops (concerning a practical agreement).
Sins against Charity:
Bishop Fellay and Father Pfluger’s willful and public slander of Bishop Williamson during the last 4 years.  

Important notes on obedience:
It is the teaching of the Church that obedience is part of justice, one of the four cardinal virtues, which are in turn subordinate to the theological virtues of faith, hope, and charity.  Faith is greater than obedience.  Therefore, if obedience acts to harm the faith, than a Catholic has a duty NOT to obey his superior.  

"Now sometimes the things commanded by a superior are against God, therefore superiors are not to be obeyed in all things." -- St. Thomas Aquinas, Doctor of the Church, Summa Theologica II-IIQ. 104

You may conserve appreciable time and energy by coming to the inescapable conclusions that: A. ANY organization rises or falls on leadership. B. Leaders actually do that - lead!  They rescue their own when stricken on the field of honor and don't race to the wounded to shoot them before the enemy can. C. It really isn't a terribly good idea, when your organization's sole purpose is to defend and promote supernatural realities, to have key "aides" running around in a highly public fashion with the sworn opponent of those same realities.

Anyone who can definitively disprove A, B, or C ( above ) can then safely argue that the "future" ( a matter I think is closed, already ) of the Society will be as bright and sunny as the disingenuous visage of the, now, Eternal(-ly Flummoxed) City from which it begs "relief".

Game, set and match to the conciliarists.

Nothing short of a complete re-start with new Society leadership will stave off disaster after the past year.

Nothing.

Even a man I loathe, Abe Lincoln, knew that much.  McClellan was a dandy in no particular rush to win anything, always complaining he was being misinformed and not sent enough men and materiele to properly engage Lee.  Grant, a hard drinking flop in civilian life, just asked his staff to show him where the enemy was weakest. Then he attacked, and attacked and attacked.....

Dear Ekim,

I am disappointed as well with Bishop Fellay's response to the 3 Bishops.  However, I am not shocked.  History is very good at repeating itself.


Dear Anthony Benedict,

My human understanding agrees with your conclusions.  However, with God, ALL things are possible!


Thank you both for your replies.
Keep up the good fight!

The reformed SSPX is tiny and not available for most of us. Neither are independent chapels in my neck of the woods.

What do you see as the small lifeboat “Conscientious Objection”? Can you say what you mean by that?  

And the third option ... like “repairing and refitting” the existing ship?

Can you expand on those, please?

Dear Nadir,

Thank you for your thoughts.  The lifeboat called "Conscientious Objection" is referring to the few Priests who left the SSPX due to the recent changes in policy at the 2012 SSPX General Chapter. (Fathers Pfeifer, Hewko, Chazal, Voight, Ortiz, and others)
These priests are kind of like a "small raft" of spiritual support and direction for those losing confidence in the SSPX leadership and mission.  

Concerning "repairing and refitting" the existing SSPX: I have seen a "changing of the guard" over the past 10 years in the SSPX leadership positions.  The former leaders were like great coaches who "barked" commands, ideas, and spiritual insights to push our souls up toward heaven.  Yes, our "legs" burned, and we grumbled a little about their coaching, but we respected them.  The new leaders have watered down their message to attract more souls.  Quantity over quality.  Leaders should always maintain the high ground and coach souls on how to get up to them.    

The SSPX is currently a cruise liner that needs to be refitted back into a battleship!

Sola Virtus Invicta said:

...please try to confirm or deny my findings?

I understand your context -Confirm.  

This is a BIG topic -of the SSPX "sinking”- and the leaders starting to subtly take in the waves of Vatican II; as did the other 9-traditional groups that fell in the SAME way.  All of this certainly draws our utmost attention.  Along with so many of the other “ambiguous damages”, maneuvers, expulsions, and so on…coming from the present leadership of the SSPX, with more being discovered weekly.

Other than the perceived “sins” the other side likes to distract with, not wanting to look at the real issue, the fight is about the Faith.  As many times Archbishop Lefebvre, who himself was perceived of sins against the virtues, has always maintained that FAITH is above obedience.  And in this recent SSPX crisis, it is no different.  Our good Priests and Bishop Williamson are standing up straight with the “torch” of Archbishop Lefebvre -saying NO to the errors- from the Faith itself, in addition to their Anti-modernist oath they made before the Blessed Sacrament.  No compromise!

Error is error and Truth is truth!

There is a line in the sand…