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Author Topic: Is Mr. Moran back? by Sean Johnson  (Read 5834 times)

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Offline Matthew

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Is Mr. Moran back? by Sean Johnson
« on: June 08, 2017, 12:05:19 PM »
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  • Dear Friends-

    I believe that anonymous internet posts are generally not worth the digital "paper" they are written on, and tend to pay them little heed.

    However, as one regarding the reemergence of Mr. "Archbishop" Ambrose Moran has recently been making the rounds on a couple different fora, I pass it along anyway, that should it turn out to be true, having been forewarned, you will also have been forearmed:

    Originally contained within a larger Cathinfo post:

    Quote
    "I have been told that the highest ranking seminarian currently there will be finishing his studies later this month, but will be receiving orders from Ambrose Moran later this year. The seminarian in question reported this."
    Obviously, this announcement would have been much more credible had the identity of the poster been know, as well as who it was that told him of this.

    If it should turn out to be true, then you will understand why Frs. Pfeiffer/Hewko have insisted on the validity of Mr Moran's episcopal orders, while illogically distancing themselves from him all the same (i.e., Ambrose would be Fr. Pfeiffer's ace in the hole, and not only for "ordinations," but perhaps also for "consecrations"). 

    Regarding this claim on CI, another anonymous poster on another forum comments:

    Quote
    What puzzles me is that Ambrose Moran did offer his services to Traditional Catholic groups like St.Jude's, Houston and Fr Ward's, Colorado as early as the late seventies, and yet nobody spotted him as a fraud. So Fr Pfeiffer, as stubborn as ever, is to use his services later this year?

    Quote
    Oh dear! What will Ecclesia Militans [Tony LaRosa] do?. He had quit associating with Fr Pfeiffer over the Moran isssue, but had recently returned there, since Moran seemed to have disappeared from the scene.
    Now that this claim is circulating, Frs. Pfeiffer/Hewko will most likely have to make a statement on the matter.

    If they confirm Bill Moran has been kept on ice all this time, and will "ordain" their seminarians, the irony will be rich: While complaining that a well-disposed communicant cannot receive the transmission of sanctifying grace from a valid Novus Ordo (an heretical position), they themselves will not even receive valid sacraments (all coming from fake priests)!

    Semper Idem,
    Sean Johnson
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    Offline Clavis David

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    Re: Is Mr. Moran back? by Sean Johnson
    « Reply #1 on: June 08, 2017, 01:33:35 PM »
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  • Dear Friends-

    I believe that anonymous internet posts are generally not worth the digital "paper" they are written on, and tend to pay them little heed.

    However, as one regarding the reemergence of Mr. "Archbishop" Ambrose Moran has recently been making the rounds on a couple different fora, I pass it along anyway, that should it turn out to be true, having been forewarned, you will also have been forearmed:

    Originally contained within a larger Cathinfo post:
    Obviously, this announcement would have been much more credible had the identity of the poster been know, as well as who it was that told him of this.

    If it should turn out to be true, then you will understand why Frs. Pfeiffer/Hewko have insisted on the validity of Mr Moran's episcopal orders, while illogically distancing themselves from him all the same (i.e., Ambrose would be Fr. Pfeiffer's ace in the hole, and not only for "ordinations," but perhaps also for "consecrations").

    Regarding this claim on CI, another anonymous poster on another forum comments:
    Now that this claim is circulating, Frs. Pfeiffer/Hewko will most likely have to make a statement on the matter.

    If they confirm Bill Moran has been kept on ice all this time, and will "ordain" their seminarians, the irony will be rich: While complaining that a well-disposed communicant cannot receive the transmission of sanctifying grace from a valid Novus Ordo (an heretical position), they themselves will not even receive valid sacraments (all coming from fake priests)!

    Semper Idem,
    Sean Johnson
    This seems a little conflated on Mr. Johnson's part. It's kind of like that fake news story going around in the last week or so that there was an explosion in the Vatican...turned out that the car lot 'near' the Vatican had a fire. 
    Mr. Johnson's thoughts on this matter are not posted on his personal blog, nor on the new tradidi site. It seems like he is floating this balloon on CI but not elsewhere. 
    Maybe its just me but I feel like unless there is a credible source,  letters like these just waste my time. 


    Offline Matthew

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    Re: Is Mr. Moran back? by Sean Johnson
    « Reply #2 on: June 08, 2017, 01:52:34 PM »
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  • This seems a little conflated on Mr. Johnson's part. It's kind of like that fake news story going around in the last week or so that there was an explosion in the Vatican...turned out that the car lot 'near' the Vatican had a fire.
    Mr. Johnson's thoughts on this matter are not posted on his personal blog, nor on the new tradidi site. It seems like he is floating this balloon on CI but not elsewhere.
    Maybe its just me but I feel like unless there is a credible source,  letters like these just waste my time.

    He sent this out to "his e-mail list" which I'm on. I personally decided to post it, on a "for what it's worth" basis.

    By the way, it's Sean's letter itself that questions the veracity of the rumors about Mr. Moran planning to ordain a Fr. Pfeiffer seminarian.

    But other than that, I'm a bit confused. Are you questioning the veracity of Sean's letter itself? Are you questioning my veracity?

    Matthew
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    Offline Clavis David

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    Re: Is Mr. Moran back? by Sean Johnson
    « Reply #3 on: June 08, 2017, 02:13:06 PM »
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  • I didn't mean to cause you confusion, Matthew. 

    Perhaps in this day and age, where superfluous and unnecessary information abounds, it takes away from the reliability of a story when the sources are not credible/listed. While we all appreciate Mr. Johnson's sharing of this information (in no way doubting that you have his permission to publish his email), its hard to truly appreciate the veracity of the message he is sharing. 

    Perhaps its baggage from my college days, but to provide information without a source makes it questionable at best and completely ignorable at worst. Grounds for an 'F'.

    I am sure you can see this is a reasonable viewpoint and was not intended to confuse. 

    Offline Matthew

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    Re: Is Mr. Moran back? by Sean Johnson
    « Reply #4 on: June 08, 2017, 02:52:04 PM »
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  • I didn't mean to cause you confusion, Matthew.

    Perhaps in this day and age, where superfluous and unnecessary information abounds, it takes away from the reliability of a story when the sources are not credible/listed. While we all appreciate Mr. Johnson's sharing of this information (in no way doubting that you have his permission to publish his email), its hard to truly appreciate the veracity of the message he is sharing.

    Perhaps its baggage from my college days, but to provide information without a source makes it questionable at best and completely ignorable at worst. Grounds for an 'F'.

    I am sure you can see this is a reasonable viewpoint and was not intended to confuse.
    There is a fatal flaw in your reasoning.

    This isn't a college essay or report. It's a message board; a coffee-and-donuts hall where Catholics meet and discuss about anything that interests them.

    Throwing out "unverified" reports to see if anyone else knows anything more is PERFECTLY APPROPRIATE for the man-on-the-street in his private life. It is not appropriate for a news channel, a news magazine, or a college-level report.

    A news station must verify sources on everything before even MENTIONING IT to the public. But CathInfo is not a news site. It is a discussion forum. We're just a bunch of laymen.

    Likewise, in professional magazine/newspaper articles, news reports, and high school/college reports, everything must have references and citations. But that is not the case in common speech between beer buddies.

    When I talk to my family or friends, I don't include footnotes to everything.
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    Offline Matthew

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    Re: Is Mr. Moran back? by Sean Johnson
    « Reply #5 on: June 08, 2017, 02:58:29 PM »
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  • And even if this (these) report(s) about Ambrose Moran still being "in the wings" are completely false, it is still a perfectly legitimate question and topic for discussion.

    Namely: we have this little corner of the Resistance, which rejects 98% of the worldwide Resistance. Namely, Fr. Pfeiffer's operation in Boston, KY (plus a handful of other priests who share just ONE THING with Fr. Pfeiffer: their hatred of Bishop Williamson).

    This little fringe group makes its living and defines itself by attacking frequently all sorts of Resistance priests and bishops. They probably attack +Williamson and Fr. Zendejas more than the neo-SSPX and Novus Ordo put together!

    But this group also claims to be running a traditional, Resistance seminary. But they oppose all 4 of the Resistance bishops (+Williamson, +Faure, +Thomas Aquinas, and +Zendejas). So the logical question is, WHO is going to ordain their so-called "seminarians" anyhow? That is a very good question.

    This is an important question as well. Traditional Catholics all over the United States and beyond who formerly supported the SSPX don't have a lot of choices, unless they live near one of the good (mainstream) Resistance Mass locations. But what about everyone else?

    If Fr. Pfeiffer's seminary is going to crank out priests without proper training AND/OR with invalid orders, isn't that important enough to talk about?
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    Offline Clavis David

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    Re: Is Mr. Moran back? by Sean Johnson
    « Reply #6 on: June 08, 2017, 07:29:05 PM »
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  • Matthew,

    I would like to make one somewhat apologetic observation, if I may.

    I became a member on this forum because it is listed as the 'de facto headquarters of the resistance'. I think we can all agree the title implies a certain importance. Clearly that was my mistake and misconception, understood once I read your reply that your forum is in reality: "a coffee-and-donuts hall where Catholics meet and discuss about anything that interests them. Throwing out "unverified" reports to see if anyone else knows anything more is PERFECTLY APPROPRIATE for the man-on-the-street in his private life. It is not appropriate for a news channel, a news magazine, or a college-level report."  To be the de facto headquarters would involve an officialism as the representative of the resistance mainstream (I think that was the word you used?).

    Again, my mistake. It is now clear to me. Thank you for clarifying the status of the forum. I now realize my initial statements were out of context. Since there were no other replies thus far to this thread, I may perhaps assume I was the only one to have made this mistake. As the years go by, I realize more and more, things are not what they used to be.

    With regards to Fr. Pfeiffer's seminary and the future ordination of those seminarians, I couldn't agree more - it is a very important topic. And truly deserves every attention.

    Offline Matthew

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    Re: Is Mr. Moran back? by Sean Johnson
    « Reply #7 on: June 08, 2017, 10:31:19 PM »
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  • Matthew,

    I would like to make one somewhat apologetic observation, if I may.

    To be the de facto headquarters would involve an officialism as the representative of the resistance mainstream (I think that was the word you used?).

    The problem is, there are many kinds of posts on CathInfo. There are official and semi-official posts from various Resistance priests (and even bishops) posted from time to time. In this regard, CathInfo almost doubles as a news site. It's certainly the place to go (if you could only choose one place) to make sure you're always in-the-loop for news in the Resistance and the Traditional Catholic world in general.

    However, that doesn't make it a news site. People also post musings, opinions, observations, rants, questions, complaints, recipes, jokes, and a dozen other kinds of posts.

    Long story short, CathInfo will always be, first and foremost, a message board. And you do know the meaning of "de facto", right? I don't claim that CathInfo is the official anything of the Resistance. It's just that, from day one, CathInfo was ground zero for the Resistance. I used to share that honor with Ignis Ardens, until that forum mysteriously shut down. Today there are a couple of small (micro) forums, but both are Pfeifferite (they let Fr. Pfeiffer do their thinking for them). There are a few blogs here and there as well, but none of them can replace CathInfo because the latter has countless authors -- sources for news -- rather than 1 or 2.

    The original leaked letters (the Three to the One and the One to the Three) were posted here (by a certain SSPX priest) first before anywhere else. And from that day, CathInfo has always been the place to be if you want to know what's going on in the Resistance. That's why I call it the de-facto headquarters -- because that's what it is.

    If you have a strong desire to know the latest news in the Resistance, and you only have 4 minutes before bed (only time to check one website or forum), the obvious choice will be CathInfo.

    I hope this clarifies what I meant by that phrase.
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    Offline St Ignatius

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    Re: Is Mr. Moran back? by Sean Johnson
    « Reply #8 on: June 09, 2017, 10:20:11 AM »
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  • The original leaked letters (the Three to the One and the One to the Three) were posted here (by a certain SSPX priest) first before anywhere else. And from that day, CathInfo has always been the place to be if you want to know what's going on in the Resistance. That's why I call it the de-facto headquarters -- because that's what it is.
    Thank God for this forum!  Following the great sacrilege commited by Bp Williamson against the the great shoa business in early 2009, my subscriptions to Catholic news prints began to be cancelled. By 2012, I no longer had any credible sources for the current crisis that we are now experiencing. I had never read, moreless participated, in a forum. It was due to forums, like this one, that helped me discern the situation that arose from the "New Direction." Thanks Matthew for all of your hard work in maintaining this site.

    Offline AlligatorDicax

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    Re: Is Mr. Moran back? by Sean Johnson
    « Reply #9 on: June 09, 2017, 12:00:57 PM »
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  • [Sean Johnson] sent this out to "his e-mail list" which I'm on. I personally decided to post it, on a "for what it's worth" basis.

    To exactly what words does "this" refer?  The only thing above it in your "Reply #2" is a quote from newbie "Clavis David" (June 08, 2017 at 13:33:35).

    By the way, it's Sean's letter itself that questions the veracity of the rumors about Mr. Moran planning to ordain a Fr. Pfeiffer seminarian. [....]   Are you questioning the veracity of Sean's letter itself?  Are you questioning my veracity?

    "Veracity"?  No.  What I do question is where the words of the CathInfo member grandly identified out in the left margin--someone named after the Evangelist Matthew--begin & end--and where the words of the cited Sean Johnson begin & end.

    In this instance, "Semper Idem, Sean Johnson" being the last text before the footer and the rule for the sig, a reader can assume his words end with that.  Unless that had been followed by a "P.S.", which would've created additional confusion, about whether that abbreviation ends Johnson's words, and begins yet another person's words.

    So readers of the original posting in this topic would be confused only about where Johnson's words begin.  In particular, who mentioned an unidentified "larger Cathinfo post" in the 3rd paragraph of that posting?

    Originally contained within a larger Cathinfo post:

    Didn't Johnson depart Cathinfo quite conspicuously a few years ago?   So I'd expect Matthew to be the only one aware of the "larger Cathinfo post", and to  have written those introduction-style words.  Which "larger Cathinfo post"?   Sigh.   The absence of a link to it could be yet another instance of Matthew's, ummm, common omission of links to the sources of words written by other people.

    There is a fatal flaw in [Clavis David's] reasoning.

    And also in yours.

    It's [....]  a coffee-and-donuts hall where Catholics meet and discuss about anything that interests them.

    But where people meet face-to-face, they can pass around a paper copy of the "unverified" reports, or even a tablet or smart-phone whose screen displays it, so the people you meet there can see exactly where those reports begin & end.  But readers of a message-board don't have access to such info when one person's words are posted without being delimited within a posting that plainly displays someone else's name as the originator of that posting.

    In this instance, the greater flexibility of CathInfo's straightforward "quote" & "/quote" feature not only wasn't needed, but also had some disadvantages.  But decades ago, one option for signifying the points of transition between authors in e-mail, and especially e-mail digests, was using lines like this:

    Quote
      - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - -

    The analogy to "detach here" parts of perforated business forms was considered obvious.  Such lines were easy to insert in messages, they required no special formatting, and even similar lines with less-than-perfect spacing were regarded as boundaries that conclusively separated different authors.  I'm mystified that such an obvious solution has been effectively unlearned even among Internet users so experienced as to be operating their own servers.

    -----
    Note: Words displayed in the form "[blue text]" are straightforward clarifications by C.I. member AlligatorDicax.

    Offline MaterDominici

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    Re: Is Mr. Moran back? by Sean Johnson
    « Reply #10 on: June 09, 2017, 09:36:30 PM »
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  • I became a member on this forum because it is listed as the 'de facto headquarters of the resistance'. I think we can all agree the title implies a certain importance. 
    You missed a word. What is actually says is:

    CathInfo is the de-facto discussion headquarters for the SSPX Resistance

    (emphasis added)
    "I think that Catholicism, that's as sane as people can get."  - Jordan Peterson


    Offline Nooseph Polten

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    Re: Is Mr. Moran back? by Sean Johnson
    « Reply #11 on: June 12, 2017, 04:24:05 PM »
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  • Who is Sean Johnson, anyway?
    +Truth and Justice for all+
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    Offline Nadir

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    Help of Christians, guard our land from assault or inward stain,
    Let it be what God has planned, His new Eden where You reign.

    Offline AJNC

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    Re: Is Mr. Moran back? by Sean Johnson
    « Reply #13 on: June 13, 2017, 02:42:42 AM »
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  • I have been following this thread:

    https://www.cathinfo.com/crisis-in-the-church/traditional-rite-of-ordination-vs-new-rite/msg553342/?topicseen#msg553342

    Maybe Ambrose is OK. He could well be a real Orthodox bishop. I recall reading years ago that an elderly Jesuit priest pointed the late Bishop Francis Schuckardt to the Orthodox to obtain Holy Orders in this great crisis in the Church.

    Offline Croixalist

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    Re: Is Mr. Moran back? by Sean Johnson
    « Reply #14 on: June 13, 2017, 08:31:40 AM »
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  • I can't believe we've gotten this far without a food update!

    Maybe Ambrose is OK.

    No.



    Oh, you mean the sodomite papal-robed Francis Schuckardt. I wonder where in Hell he wound up... third ring?
    Fortuna finem habet.