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Offline Matthew

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Re: IS HE OR ISN'T FELLAY A FREEMASON
« Reply #90 on: May 17, 2019, 11:57:38 AM »
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  • You must know Father Pfeiffer better than me. Are you suggesting he was normal and holy until 2014 and then fell? I think the presence of Pablo from before then is evidence that there were problems with Pfeiffer from the beginning. But I can't say you are wrong.

    1. Yes I'm saying he was normal before 2014. There was no public knowledge of anything to the contrary. Holy? Sure, I guess -- he was heroically standing up against the changes in the SSPX, at a time when no one else was. As for Pablo, we all know the deal with him today, and it's hard to remember when he was an unknown. But for most of the country, he was a huge unknown back in 2013. He was colorful, eccentric, and maybe a bit rash/imprudent -- that's all anyone knew about him back then. As soon as word got out about his "hobby" of fist-fighting the devil, he was immediately banned from CathInfo. Pablo didn't even follow Fr. Pfeiffer to every chapel he said Mass at. He certainly never set foot here.

    2. Saying I supported Fr. Pfeiffer until 2014 is being a bit generous. I had Fr. Pfeiffer here twice, Fr. Hewko here twice (for the first visit, they were here together) for a total of 3 times -- Between Feb 2013 and Sept. 2013. That was the extent of my "support" for them. Monetarily, I only donated the use of a large 1000 SF warehouse building and the use of a lot of chapel equipment. I publicized and organized the event and the potluck which followed. I also did the airport runs to/from. That was my contribution. If you ask me, that is more important than tossing $50 or $100 in the collection. Anyone can do that. Who has a location for Mass? Who can talk to countless individuals one-on-one to drum up support for a brand-new chapel? Serving the Mass, arranging music/hymns during the Mass, being the coordinator (which is a huge job in itself) -- all of that takes a lot of work.

    To be more accurate, I didn't have anything to publicly criticize Fr. Pfeiffer about until Nov. 2014 when he started attacking +Williamson and then-Fr. Zendejas. Nov 1, 2014 was also the date of Fr. Pfeiffer's infamous sermon during which he glorified a woman for sleeping with a Rosary under her pillow. Not praying the Rosary, mind you, just sleeping with it under her pillow like a talisman, which is superstition because it assumes an object has power *outside of* one's actual devotion.
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    Offline ByzCat3000

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    Re: IS HE OR ISN'T FELLAY A FREEMASON
    « Reply #91 on: May 17, 2019, 01:40:08 PM »
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  • Quote
    1. The Bible doesn't mention aliens, even though it mentions everything else in the visible world.

    In what way does the Bible mention everything else in the visible world?  I have serious doubts about this unless you're classifying in very general terms.


    Quote
    2. We haven't found any aliens yet. Not even microbes.
    [size]
    Sure.  And they very likely don't exist.  I was just asking why they couldn't, from a theological standpoint.  Not why someone doesn't believe in them (I don't either.) 

    [/size]
    Quote
    3. (true) Science has discovered that the earth is actually the center of the universe. Everything rotates around the earth. Google "axis of evil". Geocentrism is true. Carl Sagan was wrong that we are in a backwoods "nothing special" far-out corner of a galaxy.
    [size]
    I haven't researched this enough to really be able to comment on it.  But say that's true.  So what?  I can see how that might make alien existence improbable.  But I don't see how it makes it theologically impossible.

    [/size]
    Quote
    4. #3 actually makes sense, because Earth is the planet on which God took HUMAN FLESH and died on the cross. The second Person of the Holy Trinity has a human nature now in Heaven. He can't take on any other additional alien nature(s). He can't have a glorified human body AND a glorified green alien body with 15 tentacles at the same time. That would be metaphysically impossible; an actual contradiction like a square circle.
    [size]
    I agree with this.  This is the first relevant theological point that I can make sense of (the other points, even if true, are really probabilistic claims rather than definitive theological ones as far as I can see it.)  However, this doesn't rule out the existence of alien life, only its redeemability.  Angels couldn't be redeemed either, but they certainly exist, despite clearly having souls and eternal destinies.
    [/size]
    Quote
    5. And no, the other two Persons in the Holy Trinity aren't standing around in some kind of waiting room "still available" to do what the Second Person of the Holy Trinity did on Earth to save mankind in 33 AD. Jesus created the world, He is the LOGOS, the Word. It's difficult to comprehend the Trinity to any degree, but let's just say that it wasn't a coincidence that the LOGOS, the Second Person became man and died for our sins. Jesus didn't lose a divine "coin toss", nor did He draw the "short straw".

    The Trinity is kind of like a fire: you have light, heat, and consuming action. Those 3 things go together. Where you have "fire", you have all 3. The light isn't the heat, and the heat isn't the consuming action. But there is only 1 fire. You can't say, "Well, last time the HEAT of the fire warmed my food; this time let's have the LIGHT of the fire warm my food." It doesn't work that way.

    I agree here as well, but again, this only suggests that it is certainly a theological impossibility that aliens could be redeemed, if they did in fact exist.  So where I'm at right now, barring any further argument to the contrary, is that aliens very likely don't exist, I don't see any reason to believe they exist, but if it turned out that they did, in fact, exist, it wouldn't challenge my Catholic faith, because I see no contradiction. I'll grant that something like geocentrism, and the belief that the earth is the center of the universe, does seem to decrease the probability that aliens exist, but even if that's affirmed, aliens still *could* exist, and it would still make sense that the planet humans live on was the center since that was the place to which God sent a redeemer.

    But I agree that an "alien Christ" wouldn't be possible.  And trying to posit that possibility would lead to all sorts of heresies.


    Offline ByzCat3000

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    Re: IS HE OR ISN'T FELLAY A FREEMASON
    « Reply #92 on: May 17, 2019, 01:41:40 PM »
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  • Indeed, what if +Fellay/+Lefebvre are/were aliens?

    NOW we have come full circle on this thread.
    Well since we all know Freemasons are aliens, the question on this thread seems to be whether Fellay is a freemason/alien  ;D

    Offline nctradcath

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    Re: IS HE OR ISN'T FELLAY A FREEMASON
    « Reply #93 on: May 17, 2019, 01:49:06 PM »
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  • Where did you get the above? I have never read that.

    Offline nctradcath

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    Re: IS HE OR ISN'T FELLAY A FREEMASON
    « Reply #94 on: May 17, 2019, 01:49:50 PM »
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  • I mean where Our Lady of Fatima said aliens were devils.


    Offline Matthew

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    Re: IS HE OR ISN'T FELLAY A FREEMASON
    « Reply #95 on: May 17, 2019, 08:10:13 PM »
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  • In what way does the Bible mention everything else in the visible world?  I have serious doubts about this unless you're classifying in very general terms.

    Yes, in a general way.

    But under which heading would rational aliens fit under? Made in the image and likeness of God and all?

    You can't classify them with "everything that creepeth and moveth upon the earth" because they wouldn't be on earth.

    So even in general terms, the Bible conspicuously leaves out any mention of any other rational creatures like Man.

    In fact, the Bible might even deny it. Adam didn't find any other one like himself (rational). And don't tell me he didn't know about the other planets and who dwelt thereon. Adam wasn't a caveman, AND he had infused knowledge. He would have asked God for a spaceship, or asked for leave to go build one (he was capable, I might add).

    On the other hand, if Adam focused on finding a creature EXACTLY like himself, not just reason/free will but also biology, then another rational alien wouldn't do.

    But on the third hand (speaking of aliens!) who says that aliens would be tentacled monsters with 5 eyes? Hollywood Sci-fi, that's who!
    Wouldn't God use the same design somewhere else?
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    Offline Stanley N

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    Re: IS HE OR ISN'T FELLAY A FREEMASON
    « Reply #96 on: May 17, 2019, 09:04:07 PM »
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  • [size={defaultattr}]I was just asking why they couldn't, from a theological standpoint.
    [/size]
    I don't see a good reason why space aliens couldn't exist.

    Revelation does not tell us everything. In the natural realm, for example, it doesn't mention every species of animal on earth. Yet those species that are not mentioned in the Scripture still exist.

    Anything we might speculate about the redemption of rational space aliens is just that - speculation. Perhaps they don't fall? Perhaps they get redeemed in some other way? Perhaps earthlings have a missionary role to spread the news of the Redemption to space aliens?

    Centuries ago, people used to consider whether anyone could be living at the "antipodes" (opposite side of the earth, that is, not europe-asia-africa). Some thought it impossible because if there were humans there, those humans couldn't receive the Gospel. And yet humans were living there, and the Gospel was brought to them.

    What we can be sure of, if space aliens do exist, is that God's providence has accounted for them in some way.

    Offline ByzCat3000

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    Re: IS HE OR ISN'T FELLAY A FREEMASON
    « Reply #97 on: May 17, 2019, 09:06:54 PM »
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  • Yes, in a general way.

    But under which heading would rational aliens fit under? Made in the image and likeness of God and all?

    You can't classify them with "everything that creepeth and moveth upon the earth" because they wouldn't be on earth.

    So even in general terms, the Bible conspicuously leaves out any mention of any other rational creatures like Man.

    In fact, the Bible might even deny it. Adam didn't find any other one like himself (rational). And don't tell me he didn't know about the other planets and who dwelt thereon. Adam wasn't a caveman, AND he had infused knowledge. He would have asked God for a spaceship, or asked for leave to go build one (he was capable, I might add).

    On the other hand, if Adam focused on finding a creature EXACTLY like himself, not just reason/free will but also biology, then another rational alien wouldn't do.

    But on the third hand (speaking of aliens!) who says that aliens would be tentacled monsters with 5 eyes? Hollywood Sci-fi, that's who!
    Wouldn't God use the same design somewhere else?
    How do we know that aliens (even if they were rational) would be a suitable partner for Adam, being a completely different species?  And how do we know Adam would've known who dwelt on other planets?  I'm not saying Adam was a caveman, but God could simply have given him this knowledge.  

    "Wouldn't God use the same design somewhere else?"

    Why would he need to?  

    I mean, again, I'm not arguing that aliens exist.  I'm not arguing that belief in them is more rational than not believing in them.  I don't happen to believe in them.  But my lack of belief in them is an agnostic lack of belief, because I'm not aware of any theological principle that would say they can't exist.

    Is there something in Sacred Tradition that teaches, as a point of theology, that everything that exists must have been mentioned in the creation narrative in a general way?  If something like that exists in Sacred Tradition, I could see that as being a strong argument.  As far as I know, there's nothing in the Bible that teaches the necessity of this.  

    But again, it might be the case.  I just don't claim certainty.  I don't think I have a basis for it.


    Offline ByzCat3000

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    Re: IS HE OR ISN'T FELLAY A FREEMASON
    « Reply #98 on: May 17, 2019, 09:11:03 PM »
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  • I don't see a good reason why space aliens couldn't exist.
    Revelation does not tell us everything. In the natural realm, for example, it doesn't mention every species of animal on earth. Yet those species that are not mentioned in the Scripture still exist.
    Anything we might speculate about the redemption of rational space aliens is just that - speculation. Perhaps they don't fall? Perhaps they get redeemed in some other way? Perhaps earthlings have a missionary role to spread the news of the Redemption to space aliens?
    Centuries ago, people used to consider whether anyone could be living at the "antipodes" (opposite side of the earth, that is, not europe-asia-africa). Some thought it impossible because if there were humans there, those humans couldn't receive the Gospel. And yet humans were living there, and the Gospel was brought to them.

    What we can be sure of, if space aliens do exist, is that God's providence has accounted for them in some way.
    I had the possible thought of "perhaps they could be redeeemed in some other way" but I refrained from stating so on the grounds that I wondered if *perhaps* speculation in that direction could lead to some type of heresy, and I wanted my argument to be as "safe" as possible.  Aliens who either aren't rational in the same way we are, or who haven't fallen (like the angels), or who have fallen but can't be redeemed (like the demons) seem absolutely safe from a theological standpoint (even if their existence is improbable.) 

    That said I'd question "perhaps Earthlings have a missionary role to spread the news of the Redemption to space aliens" as a possibility.  I don't see how (though perhaps I'm wrong), such a mandate wouldn't constitute new divine Revelation, which is condemned in Pascendi.  *perhaps* this could be explained as a development of "making disciples of all nations" but that seems sketch to me, and I might be more liberal than anyone on this particular forum not named Poche ;D, and I still  think that's a stretch.

    Offline Markus

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    Re: IS HE OR ISN'T FELLAY A FREEMASON
    « Reply #99 on: May 19, 2019, 10:32:03 PM »
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  • I was hoping this thread would be about whether Bishop Fellay is a Freemason, as opposed to the Pfunny Pfarm or aliens...

    Offline Smedley Butler

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    Re: IS HE OR ISN'T FELLAY A FREEMASON
    « Reply #100 on: May 20, 2019, 08:38:11 AM »
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  • Virgo-Maria.org

    Gaude, Maria Virgo, cunctas hæreses sola interemisti.
    (Tractus Missæ Salve Sancta Parens)
    Wednesday, November 11, 2009
    This message can be downloaded in pdf on our website http://www.virgo-maria.org/.
    The program book «Benoît XVI et les traditionalistes» (« Benedict XVI and the traditionalists »)(March 12, 2007) of Father Celier (FSSPX), published by and with a foreword of a freemason[1]of the GrandLodgeof France


    Proof of the Masonic premeditation of the joining Rome policy imposed on the SSPX by Bishop Fellay

    An unprecedented Masonic scandal on top of the sacerdotal work of Archbishop Lefebvre

    In view of these appalling FACTS[1] from this moment onwards the question raises itself :

     
    Could it be that nowadays the SSPX is being led by a freemason?

     
    If so, since when did he enter the Lodge?

     

    Bishop Fellay has to choose:
    • ·       either betray Bishop Lefebvre and continue his Masonic∴ policy described in the program book published by and with a foreword of a free∴mason∴, publicly showing his submission to the Lodge by doing so,
    • ·       or he expells Father Celier[2] from the FSSPX and removes Father de Cacqueray because of incompetence, having covered this Masonic∴ book with his authority and sold[3] it himself.


     
    Explanation of the Masonic intentions and methods of Bishop Fellay’s policy:

    In the absence of any denial by Bishop Fellay, more than a month after the outbreak of the scandal without any reaction from his side, we cannot but conclude that it is clearly visible that Father Celier has had orders from Bishop Fellay and Father de Cacqueray to traverse France for two years in order to present in all the priories, before all the clergymen and faithfull, this program book of the joining of the SSPX with the Masonic, apostate, globalist Rome – a book published by and with a foreword of a freemason.

    Late October 2008 Mr. J.L.Maxence, the psychoanalist who edited and wrote the foreword of the program book «Benoît XVI et les Traditionnalistes» published his own book («La Loge et le divan») («The  Lodge and the Couch «), in which he himself[4] reveals the sham, up to then unknown and revealed later, in the nr. 269 (1 to 15 Feb.) of Emmanuel Ratier’s «Faits & Documents»  magazine.

     
    Father Celier’s program book, published by and with a foreword from a freemason, was released on March 12, 2007, and was immediately distributed and promoted in the media of the SSPX and in the priories, with the full and active support of the authority of Father de Cacqueray, who sold it himself in Nantes.


    Page 57 of «J’ai été franc-maçon» («I have been a freemason») by André Clodic[5]

    The first chapter of part three of  «Benoît XVI et les traditionalistes», devoted to the process of «reconciliation» with modernist Rome, is called «triangulation», a term that makes one invariably think of the «triangulation of speech» which, in Masonic practices, means that the initiated gets permission to speak from the Venerable of the Lodge trough the intermediary of the Surveillant. This symbolizes the indirect procedure.

    This means that the program book has been drafted in the second half of 2006, from August to December, at the time of the launching of the sacrilegious «bouquet», exactly the period when Father de Cacqueray began his Paris conferences[6], and was already reading to the public parts of the still unpublished Masonic∴ program book  in his lecture (the childish and ridiculous episode of the tanker changing course, part of the Masonic∴ book released 6 months later) of September 27, 2006[7], in the hall of the Mutualité, while answering pro-joining questions from Father Lorans.
    During this well known lecture, Father de Cacqueray explained to the faithful the idea according to which the SSPX should accept to lower the tone of its criticism, being fully integrated in the bosom of the Conciliar Church.

    All through his 2007 spring campaign in the priories, Father Celier has not stopped declaring that he acted with the agreement of Bishop Fellay, and that his book expressed the thoughts of Bishop Fellay.

    At that time, VM had pains to believe it, as it appeared so inconceivable.
    However, if we take Father Celier serious now, and accept that he did speak the truth, then this program book, its publication and its foreword by the freemason editor Jean-Luc Maxence had been agreed upon with Bishop Fellay as early as mid 2006, to contribute to the success of politics of joining the SSPX with Rome by way of PSYOPS manipulation of the faithful.

    Bishop Fellay has therefore chosen to have Father Celier present the lectures on joining that he did not dare himself to present openly at that time, preferring to remain in a chiaroscuro in order to better cheat the clergy and the faithful, while the freemason writer distilled the poison of surrendering in the minds of the priests and laymen of the SSPX.

    Jean-Luc Maxence was at least a known admirer of the gnosis. Choosing him  as editor, most certainly ratified by Bishop Fellay, reveals a deeper "connivance": Bishop Fellay could not be unaware of the Masonic contacts of the former contributor of the "Monde & Vie" magazine .

    Did Bishop Fellay choose this editor because of his membership of the G∴L∴F∴ ?
    On the other hand, was this choice the fruit of orchestrated action between the G∴L∴F∴ and the superior of the SSPX?

     
    Likewise, Bishop Fellay, in permanent communication with the Masonic Conciliar authorities of Rome, must have been warned about the coming release[8]of the Motu Proprio; he must have had information on the planned timetable, and therefore, the "miracle" made from the "bouquet spirituel" was   – as VM has denounced[9]right away -  destined to cheat the piety of the faithful. The Masonic program book represented the "next step", the one that would encourage the momentum towards the so called "discussions", and then the final integration.

     
    Bishop Fellay, Father Celier and the Masonic editor of the G∴L∴F∴, have therefore planned to publish a program book that would be propagated by Father Celier in half of the priories of the SSPX in France, in two campaigns that would frame the release of the Motu Proprio as a sandwich.
    Evidently, Father Celier benefited from financial support from the side of Father de Cacqueray for the expenses that he made for his subversive operation.

    Consequently, it is necessary to note that Father Celier has benefited from unlimited support of Father de Cacqueray and of Bishop Fellay, in spite of the multiplying protest articles and actions.

    "In the first place, pull away form Freemasonry the mask that it covers itself with and make it be seen like it is." Leo XIII

    In the final annex to this VM message, we do invite our readers – be they clergymen or laymen – to read, reread and meditate on the INFALLIBLE encyclical text Humanum Genus of April 20, 1884, from the Magisterium of Pope Leo XIII, by which this Pontiff infallibly exposes, denounces and condemns the "Sect of the Freemasons", as well as their "misleading" methods and their "infamous and criminal enterprises."
    While considering the INFALLIBLE terms chosen by Pope Leo XIII to passionately condemn Freemasonry by his encyclical Humanum Genus, the Catholic readers, clergy or laymen, will be able to measure the ABSOLUTELY MOST SERIOUS character of the public approval from a confirmed, acknowledged, enthusiast Gnostic freemason program book of Father Celier for the joining of the SSPX with the Masonic, globalist, apostate, “ecumenical” Conciliar church.

    Leo XIII points his finger at the secret methods of the Masonic sect:

    "Undoubtedly, one can see that they belong to the family of clandestine corporations, and that they behave like them. They have, in fact, kinds of mysteries that their constitution forbids with the greatest care to divulge, not only to people outside, but even to a considerable number of their followers."

    And what does Bishop Fellay show since the year 2000 in the SSPX? The same Masonic∴ methods of secrecy!

     
    This cult of the secret keeps on spreading in the government of the SSPX by Bishop Fellay. The so called doctrinarian "discussions” with the Rome of the antichrists, by which the Swiss bishop risks the future of the FSSPX, will unfold themselves in secrecy, behind CLOSED DOORS.
    And now, in a new boost of secrecy, even the names of the members of the Commission will remain secret!
    Discussions BEHIND CLOSED DOORS, by persons that do not unveil their identity to the public, does that not remind you of something? This is exactly the way that the Masonic Lodge functions.
    We cannot but notice that Bishop Fellay imposes on the FSSPX the way of functioning of the Masonic Lodge: this is a FACT.

     
    Quite the opposite of Bishop Fellay and the Lodge, Bishop Lefebvre applied the Catholic way of behaving: he kept his relations with Rome seen and known by the faithful and did not hesitate to solicit the opinion of laymen.

    How to explain that, since 2000, the year of the pilgrimage to Rome, the Direction of the SSPX has arrived at adopting the methods of functioning of the Masonic Lodge?
    And this in an ever increasing way since the visit of Bishop Fellay to the apostate priest Ratzinger-Benedict XVI on August 29, 2005?

     
     
     
    Ask your priests and your bishops:

    ·    How is it possible that the Direction of the SSPX promotes and sells this Masonic∴ program book without any penalty?

    ·    How is it possible that Bishop Fellay imposes this Masonic∴ policy by terror?

    ·    Do you want our children to finish in the Lodge∴?

     
     
     
     
     
     
     
     
    Chronology of the publication and circulation of the Masonic program book within the District of France of the SSPX for two years with the total support and active participation of Father de Cacqueray

    Table of contents

    1.       The publication on March 12, 2007, of the joining program book by Father Celier, edited by and with a foreword of Jean-Luc Maxence, a not yet acknowledged freemason of the G∴L∴F∴... 7
    2.       The first publicity campaign (May-June 2007) of Father Celier in 12 priories of the District of France to distribute his program book "Benedict XVI and the traditionalists", edited and prefaced by the freemason of the G∴L∴F∴... 10
    3.       On July 7, 2007, Benedict XVI published the Motu Proprio. Four months before the joining program book of Father Celier has appeared. This release of the Motu is framed by the two campaigns of Father Celier in the priories, for his program book edited by and with a foreword of a follower of theG∴L∴F∴... 15
    4.       On October 5, 2007, Bishop Fellay’s nomination of Father Celier (edited by and with a foreword of a F∴M∴) is revealed in the theological commission responsible for the preparation of the "discussions" with Rome.17
    5.       The second publicity campaign (October-December 2007) of Father Celier in 9 priories of the District of France to distribute his program book "Benedict XVI and the traditionalists", edited by and with a foreword of a freemason of the G∴L∴F∴... 18
    6.       On the 1st  of December, 2007, a university circle violently attacks Father Celier’s philosophical work ("the mortal god"), for being an "initiatory guide to apostasy". Erreur ! Signet non défini.
    7.       In March 2008, the hidden, but unmasked campaign of Father Celier to spread a second document about the joining among the clergy of the SSPX   19
    8.       From June to August 2008, Father Celier, helped by Father Lorans, with insolence, and as if he has nothing to fear, hushes up the rebellion of Bishop Fellay and the bishops of the Fraternity (SSPX) against the ultimatum urged by Rome at the beginning June 2008  19
    9.       In October 2008, Jean-Luc Maxence, editor of Father Celier, reveals his affiliation "since decades" to the Grande∴ Loge∴ de France∴ (Grand Lodge of France)24
    10.    On the 1st of February 2009, Emmanuel Ratier passes on the information about Jean-Luc Maxence’s Masonic∴ affiliation in the Faits & Documents magazine. 25
    11.    In March 2009, the magazine of the Dominican Fathers of Avrillé (Sel de la Terre) tells about the Masonic∴ affiliation of Jean-Luc Maxence  26
    12.    May 10 2009, in his lecture to the IUSPX on subversion, Father Chautard, first curate of the Church of St. Nicolas du Chardonnet, makes the Masonic∴ affiliation of Jean-Luc Maxence known. 27
    13.    In June 2009, the parish bulletin of the Church of St. Nicolas du Chardonnet, ("Le Chardonnet") makes the Masonic∴ affiliation of Jean-Luc Maxence known. 27
    14.    In July 2009, VM establishes the link between the program book of Father Celier and the Masonic∴ affiliation of Jean-Luc Maxence to the G∴L∴F∴... 28
    15.    By the end of August 2009, although directly incriminated and finding his reputation damaged by the scandal, Bishop Fellay insists on supporting the Fathers Celier and De Cacqueray and the Masonic∴ political exposition in the program book "Benedict XVI and the traditionalists" Erreur ! Signet non défini.
     

    1.  The publication on March 12, 2007 of the joining program book by Father Celier, edited by and with a foreword of Jean-Luc Maxence, a not yet acknowledged freemason of the GLF

    ·      January 17, 2007: Announcement by Entrelacs Publishers, directed by Jean-Luc Maxence
    o  "Entrelacs Publishers (an affiliate of Albin-Michel) will publish on March, 12, a book by Father Grégoire Celier and Olivier Pichon: Benedict XVI and the traditionalists.
    The third part, "Future", the most original one of the book, constitutes a systematic presentation of the links of the Pius X Fraternity (SSPX) with Rome, notably in the matter of the famous "agreements".
    The first chapter, entitled "Triangulation[10]", returns to that which the SSPX has called the two "preconditions", i.e. total liberty for each priest to celebrate the traditional mass (before Vatican II), and the lifting of the Roman excommunications of 1988 regarding the four auxiliary bishops of the SSPX and the two bishops that consecrated them. Replying to the objections of Olivier Pichon, Father Celier explains why and how the SSPX has proposed these two preconditions to Rome before any other discussion.
    The title of the second chapter - to be understood while reading - is "Messe pipaule". This chapter primarily treats the "doctrinal discussions”, which must constitute, according to the SSPX, the second step of the process of reconciliation. While replying to the questions of Olivier Pichon, Father Celier tries to show, through some historic examples, that in the eyes of the SSPX it would be possible from this day to advance these discussions with Rome. This chapter - the most original of the work - also proposes future perspectives for the Church, perspectives that are astonishing, indeed, explosive from a “traditionalist” priest.
    The third chapter, entitled "Fable du héron", (The Fable of the Heron) wants to reply to the central objection of Olivier Pichon: "Isn’t now the right moment to sign, because the election of Benedict XVI is a historic chance for you? If you do not sign today, might you not risk losing all?" Having explained the history of the previous agreements, Father Celier explains in detail why, in the current circumstances, the SSPX does not envisage signing an agreement with Rome in the short run, even if it considers that the position can brutally and quickly change into its favor, which would then motivate the signature of such a agreement ."
    ·      February 28, 2007: Father Celier exposes the official policy of the rapports of the SSPX with Rome on Radio Courtoisie:
    "Effectively, there is a general position that, on a certain number of items, a reflection is evolving in the heart of the Fraternity that tries to adapt itself to this position (…). The Apostolic See can very well return this favor to the Tradition in any other form (…).We do not say that these two preconditions are absolutely obligatory if in another way, for example, the Apostolic See would show that the love of the Tradition, of the Church, is put back in force (…)"
    "Concerning the 'doctrinal debates', I explicitly say that right now this is the formula that Bishop Fellay gave, but he is open to what might happen in various ways (…). In the book I explicitly say, I even remind  that we envisage to make a canonical agreement, even if all problems have not yet been solved, provided that there is a real change of direction" (Father Celier on Radio Courtoisy, February 28, 2007).

    ·      March 11, 2007: VM[11]exposes the facts and questions Father Celier for his pro-joining book: "The dangerous drifts of Father Celier denounced by a faithful. The growing outcry of the faithful of the SSPX against the network of the modernist infiltrators. "

    ·      March 12 2007: In "Benedict XVI and the traditionalists" Father Celier exposes the program of joining the SSPX with the modernistic Rome

    In the foreword to Father Celier’s work, the then yet concealed freemason Jean-Luc Maxence, declares to welcome the success of the joiningthat he names with a euphemism "rapprochement" – of the SSPX to the apostate priest Ratzinger-Benedict XVI:

    Nevertheless, until then - and "for decades[12]"- Mr. Jean-Luc Maxence had never revealed his active and fervent membership of the ‘ateliers’ of the G∴L∴F∴ to the ignorant and credulous traditionalist readers of the weekly Monde & Vie, of which the latter constituted the bulk of its readership, which very well characterizes the habitual method of insinuation and deception denounced for ages by the infallible Magisterium of the Holy Church and of its Pontiffs (cf. for example Leo XIII, 1884, Encyclical Humanum Genus).



    "I began my activities as a journalist in 1966, a year after the end of the Vatican II council. Being Catholic, I have from this era been fascinated by the different currents of thought that confronted themselves within the Church of Rome. I was having a regular section of "poetry" in the Monde et Vie weekly, and as I was part of the editing team of this publication close to the Catholic "traditionalist", although in no way being "expert" in religious questions, I could talk with Archbishop Marcel Lefebvre, Father François Ducaud Bourget, Michel de Saint Pierre and some other figureheads of this current.
    "I was not thirty years old yet, and I was hoping then for a "spring of the Church". I believed the virtues of Vatican II, with the faith of an exalted sixty-eighter. I even ended up being responsible for a polemic work on the subject, a pamphlet that advocated a frank separation from those that the late Jacques Maritain, in his work Le Paysan de la Garonne, baptized those still "Ruminating the Holy Alliance", in other words, the "fundamentalists ".
    "Almost thirty years have passed, and still the same questions remain. Vatican II has not at all filled the churches, especially in the West, this is the least one can say.
    "I have no intention to get in a certain soft and stupid repentance. However, it seemed to me useful, especially at a time when Pope Benedict XVI courageously wants to mend the torn tunic of the Church, to propose to the journalist Olivier Pichon and to Father Grégoire Celier to talk without using diplomatic language, with absolute liberty, on the question of a rapprochement between the Fraternity of Saint Pius X and Rome.  Is it not just the objective of the Connivences Collection to offer a space for the exchange of ideas beyond habitual ideological divides?
    "I do not regret this initiative. Better: it seems to me undeniable that this discussion lights up the points of view of each, and that it can constitute an important brick in the structure of reconciliation that I personally hope to be possible.”
    The Director of the “Connivences” Collection (Jean-Luc Maxence, F∴M∴ of the Grande∴ Loge∴ de France∴ according to the Ancient and Accepted Scottish Rite[13])

    ·      March 13, 2007: while VM[14]wonders about the Gnostic ideas of Father Celier’s editor, Jean-Luc Maxence: "The thoughts of Bishop Fellay edited by an admirer of the gnosis? The book of Father Celier, claiming to express the thoughts of Bishop Fellay, edited by J. L. Maxence, author of esoteric and Guénon inspired works "
    o  The Vehementer magazine (published only on internet) reveals to us that Jean-Luc Maxence is strongly linked to Gnostic circles. It recalls that the latter already has published several works on esoteric subjects and on René Guénon, a highly initiated Gnostic. Vehementer is directed by some Dominican Fathers of Avrillé. It is to be distinguished from Sel de la Terre, a magazine directed by Father Pierre-Marie de Kergorlay."
    o  "Father Celier claims, in fact, to speak in the name of Bishop Fellay while expressing exactly the latter’s thought. He even claims that his work was reread and approved by his Superiors. Bishop Fellay therefore, has accepted that, if Father Celier is to be believed – and if this is true, the situation is really very serious -, that his personal thought about the SSPX and its future, like on the very strategic item of the connections with Ratzinger (regions for which he as Superior General of the SSPX is personally responsible, and which he primarily is vested with) is expressed in a discussion with an editor, Mr. Jean-Luc Maxence, who has already published and distributed the following books: Jung and the future of Freemasonry, 2004; L’égrégore; The  collective psychological energy, Dervy, 2003; René Guénon, the invisible philosopher, 2001; Anthology of contemporary mystical poetry, 1999" VM

     
    2.  The first publicity campaign (May-June 2007) of Father Celier in 12 priories of the District of France to distribute his program book "Benedict XVI and the traditionalists", edited by and with a foreword of a mason of the GLF

     
    ·      May 5, 2007: VM[15]is worried and questions the first tour of France in 12 priories of the SSPX by Father Celier to present his book "Benedict XVI and the traditionalists" :
    ◦    "How to explain that Father Celier turns himself this way, without any obstacle to the highest level of the SSPX media in France, even though he prepares his departure (at last!) from the magazine Fideliter (the level of which has become pitiful henceforth) and the Clovis Publishing Firm? Is it not the responsibility of the July 2006 General Chapter (that convenes once every 12 years) to officially decide to dismiss him from this magazine and of this Publishing Firm? Who, therefore, has authority superior to the General Chapter to decide that his decisions must be executed without delay? An authority that seems to exercise an executive power in the SSPX superior to the General Chapter? Is not here that power at work that we already designated by the expression "Schwarze Kapelle (Black Orchestra)," that corresponds to the network of the modernistic infiltrators? (Cf. preceding VM messages).
    Did Father de Cacqueray put his signature under the mission of Father Celier’s tour of France?
    Do the gifts of the faithful serve to finance these expensive trips and this shameless pro-joining propaganda?
    While the families must scrimp and save to pay the studies of their children in the SSPX schools, the faithful can now verify what their money is used for.
    About 7500 Kms (calculating the various routes on www.viamichelin.com) and therefore, according to the tax scale: 3500 € (3.134,39 GBP or 5.194,92 USD) for traveling costs (including amortization) + various costs! It takes more than 1000 books to be sold to get back such a sum by the profits obtained by the profit margin." VM

    ·      May 8 2007: VM[16]passes on a text of the "Sous la bannière" magazine that publicly questions Bishop Fellay on the legitimacy of Father Celier expressing himself by his book:
    "Father continually expresses himself in the name of the Fraternity by using the first person plural. We have; we are; we recognize. On page 221, in 14 lines, this method of expression is used 7 times by the Father Celier. And on page 212, we, or it, or the Fraternity, is used 18 times in 24 lines. The average reader can have no doubt! This must be a "historic leader” who expresses himself in the name of the SSPX. It remains to be known if the real persons in command are conscious of this, and accept it themselves." Sous la bannière – n°130 »


    ·      May 18, 2007: VM[17]publishes on the failure of Father Celier’s first lectures in the priories:
    o  "According to our information, Father Celier has met 50 faithful at his lecture of May 3, 2007, in the priory of Marseille. Few books have been sold; some faithful had their copies signed. As a matter of fact, owing to the modernist and naturalist theses that he has not stopped promoting since 1995, Father Celier has got himself a sort of contra-clientele that buys his books or magazines containing items from him (published under his name or under one of his pseudonyms) in order to examine which modernist or naturalist ideas these works contain. So, whatever he publishes, he can be sure of a minimum sale by his opponents. After that, on May 10, 2007, in the priory of Lyon, hardly more faithful turned up (about 60). 30 books have been sold. Among these listeners a lot were opponents of Father Celier’s theses that he has spread for years under his own name or under pseudonyms (Father Beaumont or Paul Sernine). The atmosphere at the time of the lecture in Lyon was hostile. Father Lamerand, the prior, even intervened to chase away someone who had come to distribute the article of Sous la bannière that gives implacable criticism on Father Celier’s work. A theological criticism that we discussed in our VM message of May 8, 2007. "



    ·      May 23, 2007: VM[18]makes the opposition known of Bishop Tissier de Mallerais to Father Celier’s program book, that he qualifies a "fantasy":
    « Questioned on the subject of Father Celier’s book[1] at a lecture for the faithful, Bishop Tissier de Mallerais declared: "I have not read Father Celier’s book yet. This is a, well, a, how shall I put it, an eccentric view of the future, an imagination of the future, how a progressive return to the liturgical tradition, to the traditional Mass might happen. Yes, that is what it is, without any doubt. This is a work of fantasy or imagination, but I cannot say some more because I did not read the book, I did not buy it, it does not interest me, I will not read it, it does not interest me at all." Bishop Tissier de Mallerais. [2]

    ·      May 25, 2007:VM[19]publishes a document of 2004 that makes a theological and philosophical screening of Father Celier’s writings and concludes that he is a nuisance. Father Celier intervenes once more on Radio Courtoisie.

    "Despite the failure of his campaign in the priories of France, on the radio on May 24, 2007 Father Celier excelled already as a correspondent for the District of France." VM

    ·      May 26, 2007: VM[20]headlines: "Bishop Tissier disavows Father Celier’s manuscripts. The failure of an isolated and rejected Father Celier" and publishes the audio recording [21]of the rejection by Bishop Tissier de Mallerais of Father Celier’s program book "Benedict XVI and the traditionalists".

    ·      May 27, 2007: VM[22]informs on "The rout of Father Celier on campaign: the fiasco of Toulouse".

    "Hardly 40 persons turned up. Father de la Rocque, prior of the SSPX in Toulouse, had rented a room for 300 persons. 40 persons turned up. We counted 3 priests, some youngsters, and very aged people, all faithful of the priory. Some time before, Michel de Jaeghere had attracted more people to the same place, gathering listeners from all horizons. The lecture began with 20 minutes of delay. Father de la Rocque saw the room almost empty and waited for the crowd to arrive, but the crowd never came. Delivering a rather shallow speech, Father Celier appeared very little at ease. (...) During his lecture he strongly asserted that he spoke in the name of the SSPX and of Bishop Fellay, presenting the latter’s position all the time." VM

    ·      June 3, 2007: Father de Cacqueray goes to the Priory of Saint-Louis in Nantes on Sunday, a week before Father Celier’s arrival, and he sells the Masonic program book "Benedict XVI and the traditionalists" to the faithful himself:
    "We have received two testimonies on the "great success" of Nantes. It is necessary to recall that after Paris, Nantes is the second city of France in the fight for the Tradition. The coming of Father Celier was preceded by that of Father de Cacqueray, who came the preceding Sunday with works of Father Celier. However, he failed to sell them, according to a testimony that has reached us." VM[23]of June 17, 2007
    ·      June 6, 2007:VM
    WTH is this??
    English please?


    Offline Incredulous

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    Re: IS HE OR ISN'T FELLAY A FREEMASON
    « Reply #101 on: May 21, 2019, 11:25:07 AM »
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  • I was hoping this thread would be about whether Bishop Fellay is a Freemason, as opposed to the Pfunny Pfarm or aliens...

    Here's one from the Cathinfo archives to "light-up" the trolls on this forum
    and get us back on track with Bp. Fellay's SSPX masonic-ness: :jester:

    It involves Father Schoonbroodt who promoted +ABL's sermons, Bp. Fellay and Max Krah.

    Even more intriguing... it may even include Schoonbroodt's  masonic assassination.



    Background on Father Schoonbroodt:
     

    http://www.cathinfo.com/catholic.php?a=topic&t=18264&min=10&num=10


    Translation:

    Bishop Fellay and Father Schmidberger directly deposit a criminal complaint against Father Schoonbroodt before the Public Prosecutor of the Belgians.

    Since June 21, 2011, the Superior of the SSPX and Father Schmidberger filed a criminal complaint with the Public Prosecutor of Belgium, against Father Paul Schoonbroodt, the last "excommunicated" living of holy 1988.

    Taking the example of the former "bishop" Conciliar de Liège, the present and former successors of Archbishop Lefebvre hysterically persecute the priest who founded the Caramel of Quiévrain with the help of Archbishop Lefebvre and received the support of Archbishop to build his church, despite the persecution he suffered in the civil part of the Conciliar Church.
    And it is as indicated verbally that he has provided the policeman who questioned the abbot Schoonbroodt that:

    It shows three charges, provided that the abbot Schoonbroodt could learn about it in the absence of the possibility of access to the written complaint made ??to him:

    The association of St. Pius X Suresnes accused the abbot Schoonbroodt theft of intellectual property owned by the SSPX on public sermons of Archbishop Lefebvre.

    Bishop Fellay and Maximilian Krah accuse the abbot Schoonbroodt libel for referring to the association’s financial Bishop and business lawyer in the joint management of several investment companies.

    Bishop Fellay and Maximilian Krah also accuse the abbot Schoonbroodt of racism and xenophobia.

    Faced with these startling accusations from the two successors of Archbishop Lefebvre, Father Schoonbroodt made ??a statement in which he strongly rejects these accusations.

    This unprecedented action of Bishop Fellay and Father Schmidberger, justified by their common will to block the release of the full sermons of Archbishop Lefebvre they keep hidden for 20 years, sets out in broad daylight that Bishop Fellay and the Father Schmidberger run now for the Conciliar Church maçonnisée globalized and the apostate priest Ratzinger-Benedict XVI.

    And they show publicly their ulterior motives: Bishop Fellay and Father Schmidberger behave in real enemies determined the abbot Schoonbroodt while in the same direction, they seek to curry favor and friendship of Father Ratzinger apostate Benedict XVI.

    The bishop and the Swiss German priest, his guru, have clearly chosen their side: that of the Conciliar Church globalized Freemasonry and rejection of the battle of Archbishop Lefebvre against this apostate church Conciliar to preserve the Catholic priesthood sacrificial VALID sacramentally.


    http://www.cathinfo.com/catholic.php?a=topic&t=15187&f=4&min=60&num=10



    Well, that’s nearly unbelievable. So to sum up the three "charges" in own words :

    (1) Fr. Schoonbroodt publishes sermons of the good Archbishop Lefebvre and because of this he’s now persecuted by the "digital content industry" in Menzingen.

    (2) Fr. Schoonbroodt published the French translation of the famous Krahgate, which unmasks the Zionist Krah and his helpers, and is persecuted because of this.

    (3) Fr. Schoonbroodt is persecuted because of an alleged "racism" and "xenophobia". Well, there’s the usual Jewish globalist agenda again which brainwashes the west since decades. This one’s not worth one single comment.

    So Bp. Fellay, Fr. Schmidberger and their Zionist bloodhound Krah now use the anti-christian, communist EU states in order to persecute the old Fr. Schoonbroodt.

    The official SSPX leadership persecutes the propagation of Archbishop Lefebvre’s words. What we heard as theoretical talking so far we’ve got now in cold print  because of the "case Schoonbroodt".

    How many souls converted to the holy roman-catholic Church because of the intense word of Archbishop Lefebvre? I personally know several of them and they’re the most faithful catholics I know. The pseudo followers of the Archbishop however dare to choke off his important words which are just a tool of Good.

    I think it’s just to say that they’re out of their little minds because they do so and because they think they could ally with the anti-christian European states in order to reach their ignoble goals.

    It’s an act against God to hinder the free publication of the important words of the Archbishop Marcel Lefebvre. There’s no "copyright" for these words — God alone owns them! So it’s a treachery against God and his servant Archbishop Lefebvre. For sure this won’t go unpunished.
    Obviously as a punishment for their unfaithfulness they’ve already lost all judgement. We see it now and we already saw it when Bp. Fellay, Fr. Pfluger and Fr. Schmidberger publicly defamed Bishop Williamson beginning with January 2009.

    This will soon drop back on them because the very same anti-christian states which they allied and now again ally with will persecute any christian and in particular any cleric. So will they join Bishop Williamson’s exile? Hardly, because what my local SSPX priests who know that Menzingen, Jaidhof and Stuttgart are living in a dreamland, tell me: "When the soon to come persecution of Christians starts we priest will be killed first…"

    Whilst I don’t overall agree with www.virgo-maria.org , I can repeat what a trustfully SSPX priest knowing him told me: Fr. Schoonbroodt is a devout catholic priest who follows Archbishop Lefebvre. The legal actions against him by Bp. Fellay and Fr. Schmidberger, executed by their Zionist Krah, are unjust.

    Concerning the famous Krahgate:

    The English version is still online: krahgatefile.blogspot.com
    Also the German translation still is: krahgate.blogspot.com
    Better save them locally before they’re being shot down. As Kreuznet proves, Krah observes any Krahgate publications and also this forum. :-)
    P.S. an Krah: Auch Sie und Ihre Freunde sind bald fällig. Ihr verherrlichter Euro ist bereits mausetot und der restliche Wahnsinn, auf den Sie Ihre Sandburgen bauen, ebenfalls. Merken Sie sich: Gott läßt Seiner nicht spotten.

    "Some preachers will keep silence about the truth, and others will trample it underfoot and deny it. Sanctity of life will be held in derision even by those who outwardly profess it, for in those days Our Lord Jesus Christ will send them not a true Pastor but a destroyer."  St. Francis of Assisi

     

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