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Author Topic: IS HE OR ISN'T FELLAY A FREEMASON  (Read 34279 times)

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Offline Matthew

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Re: IS HE OR ISN'T FELLAY A FREEMASON
« Reply #95 on: May 17, 2019, 08:10:13 PM »

In what way does the Bible mention everything else in the visible world?  I have serious doubts about this unless you're classifying in very general terms.

Yes, in a general way.

But under which heading would rational aliens fit under? Made in the image and likeness of God and all?

You can't classify them with "everything that creepeth and moveth upon the earth" because they wouldn't be on earth.

So even in general terms, the Bible conspicuously leaves out any mention of any other rational creatures like Man.

In fact, the Bible might even deny it. Adam didn't find any other one like himself (rational). And don't tell me he didn't know about the other planets and who dwelt thereon. Adam wasn't a caveman, AND he had infused knowledge. He would have asked God for a spaceship, or asked for leave to go build one (he was capable, I might add).

On the other hand, if Adam focused on finding a creature EXACTLY like himself, not just reason/free will but also biology, then another rational alien wouldn't do.

But on the third hand (speaking of aliens!) who says that aliens would be tentacled monsters with 5 eyes? Hollywood Sci-fi, that's who!
Wouldn't God use the same design somewhere else?

Re: IS HE OR ISN'T FELLAY A FREEMASON
« Reply #96 on: May 17, 2019, 09:04:07 PM »
[size={defaultattr}]I was just asking why they couldn't, from a theological standpoint.
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I don't see a good reason why space aliens couldn't exist.

Revelation does not tell us everything. In the natural realm, for example, it doesn't mention every species of animal on earth. Yet those species that are not mentioned in the Scripture still exist.

Anything we might speculate about the redemption of rational space aliens is just that - speculation. Perhaps they don't fall? Perhaps they get redeemed in some other way? Perhaps earthlings have a missionary role to spread the news of the Redemption to space aliens?

Centuries ago, people used to consider whether anyone could be living at the "antipodes" (opposite side of the earth, that is, not europe-asia-africa). Some thought it impossible because if there were humans there, those humans couldn't receive the Gospel. And yet humans were living there, and the Gospel was brought to them.

What we can be sure of, if space aliens do exist, is that God's providence has accounted for them in some way.


Re: IS HE OR ISN'T FELLAY A FREEMASON
« Reply #97 on: May 17, 2019, 09:06:54 PM »
Yes, in a general way.

But under which heading would rational aliens fit under? Made in the image and likeness of God and all?

You can't classify them with "everything that creepeth and moveth upon the earth" because they wouldn't be on earth.

So even in general terms, the Bible conspicuously leaves out any mention of any other rational creatures like Man.

In fact, the Bible might even deny it. Adam didn't find any other one like himself (rational). And don't tell me he didn't know about the other planets and who dwelt thereon. Adam wasn't a caveman, AND he had infused knowledge. He would have asked God for a spaceship, or asked for leave to go build one (he was capable, I might add).

On the other hand, if Adam focused on finding a creature EXACTLY like himself, not just reason/free will but also biology, then another rational alien wouldn't do.

But on the third hand (speaking of aliens!) who says that aliens would be tentacled monsters with 5 eyes? Hollywood Sci-fi, that's who!
Wouldn't God use the same design somewhere else?
How do we know that aliens (even if they were rational) would be a suitable partner for Adam, being a completely different species?  And how do we know Adam would've known who dwelt on other planets?  I'm not saying Adam was a caveman, but God could simply have given him this knowledge.  

"Wouldn't God use the same design somewhere else?"

Why would he need to?  

I mean, again, I'm not arguing that aliens exist.  I'm not arguing that belief in them is more rational than not believing in them.  I don't happen to believe in them.  But my lack of belief in them is an agnostic lack of belief, because I'm not aware of any theological principle that would say they can't exist.

Is there something in Sacred Tradition that teaches, as a point of theology, that everything that exists must have been mentioned in the creation narrative in a general way?  If something like that exists in Sacred Tradition, I could see that as being a strong argument.  As far as I know, there's nothing in the Bible that teaches the necessity of this.  

But again, it might be the case.  I just don't claim certainty.  I don't think I have a basis for it.

Re: IS HE OR ISN'T FELLAY A FREEMASON
« Reply #98 on: May 17, 2019, 09:11:03 PM »
I don't see a good reason why space aliens couldn't exist.
Revelation does not tell us everything. In the natural realm, for example, it doesn't mention every species of animal on earth. Yet those species that are not mentioned in the Scripture still exist.
Anything we might speculate about the redemption of rational space aliens is just that - speculation. Perhaps they don't fall? Perhaps they get redeemed in some other way? Perhaps earthlings have a missionary role to spread the news of the Redemption to space aliens?
Centuries ago, people used to consider whether anyone could be living at the "antipodes" (opposite side of the earth, that is, not europe-asia-africa). Some thought it impossible because if there were humans there, those humans couldn't receive the Gospel. And yet humans were living there, and the Gospel was brought to them.

What we can be sure of, if space aliens do exist, is that God's providence has accounted for them in some way.
I had the possible thought of "perhaps they could be redeeemed in some other way" but I refrained from stating so on the grounds that I wondered if *perhaps* speculation in that direction could lead to some type of heresy, and I wanted my argument to be as "safe" as possible.  Aliens who either aren't rational in the same way we are, or who haven't fallen (like the angels), or who have fallen but can't be redeemed (like the demons) seem absolutely safe from a theological standpoint (even if their existence is improbable.) 

That said I'd question "perhaps Earthlings have a missionary role to spread the news of the Redemption to space aliens" as a possibility.  I don't see how (though perhaps I'm wrong), such a mandate wouldn't constitute new divine Revelation, which is condemned in Pascendi.  *perhaps* this could be explained as a development of "making disciples of all nations" but that seems sketch to me, and I might be more liberal than anyone on this particular forum not named Poche ;D, and I still  think that's a stretch.

Re: IS HE OR ISN'T FELLAY A FREEMASON
« Reply #99 on: May 19, 2019, 10:32:03 PM »
I was hoping this thread would be about whether Bishop Fellay is a Freemason, as opposed to the Pfunny Pfarm or aliens...