Author Topic: IS HE OR ISN'T FELLAY A FREEMASON  (Read 5861 times)

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Offline Meg

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Re: IS HE OR ISN'T FELLAY A FREEMASON
« Reply #45 on: May 14, 2019, 02:00:37 PM »
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  • Meg, you nailed it. Only a Plinio-worshipping, member of what Bishop Mayer called an "anti-Catholic, anti-clerical . .heretical sect" could come up with such a ludicrous attack on the good Bishop (without whom, none of us would have access to the TLM).
    How bizarre that a member of the TFP/TIA cult would attempt to charge another group with being the "controlled opposition." Think about it. Who ACTUALLY is the controlled opposition? TFP and its splinter groups, TIA, America Needs Fatima and many more.
    The ONLY counter-revolution to the freemasonic, illuminist, communist, satanic revolution is the One Holy Catholic and Apostolic Church established by Jesus Christ as a HIERARCHY, with St. Peter as its head. Jesus said "Thou art Peter and upon this rock I found my Church and the gates of hell will not prevail against it."
    TFP/TIA and other Plinio- worshiping groups are NOT the counter-revolution; they are the controlled opposition. They elevate the laity over the hierarchy founded by Jesus Christ.
    They are a cult which appeals to pride by telling their recruits that they are "special" and part of the "elite" and others "just don't want to understand." They are a cult who worships their founder Plinio. They make a mockery of Catholic prayer when they change the words of the Ave Maria to make it a prayer to Plinio. They make a mockery of Catholic tradition, when they take Louis de Montfort's consecration to Our Lady and twist it instead, into a consecration to Plinio, as Atila did when he laid face down before Plinio, with Plinio's foot on his neck, and Atila then made himself a slave to Plinio, taking his slave name in this mockery of a "consecration".
    The Plinio- worshiping cults are the controlled opposition. They accuse others of being what they themselves are. (Just like Clinton colluding with Russia and then accusing  Trump of doing what she actually did.)

    I agree. Unfortunately, few traditional Catholics see that TIA/TFP is a problem. But it's not only the TIA/TFP people who pretend to have some sympathy with the Resistance, when in fact they do not. There are others, too. Such pretense is dishonest. I believe that the Resistance has been infiltrated, but that's inevitable, I suppose.

    Offline Incredulous

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    Re: IS HE OR ISN'T FELLAY A FREEMASON
    « Reply #46 on: May 14, 2019, 10:01:16 PM »
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  • I'm not going to do research on your accusation of whom influenced +ABL. Obviously you don't want to substantiate your accusation here, though evidently, no one here except me cares that you are anti-Archbishop Lefebvre.

    You seem to think that +ABL was under control of Freemasons. Well, that's probably not an unusual belief for a follower of Plinio de Oliveira and Atila Guimaraes. Guimaraes has always been very anti-SSPX from the beginning, and I assume that de Oliveira had also been anti-SSPX. But of course those two held/hold belief that de Oliveira was the true prophet sent by God to restore the Church, and that the SSPX from the beginning was a distraction away from this. Would that be right?
    Meg,

    Since you've demonstrated on this forum that you're an SSPX troll and Fr. Purdy groupie... why would we give you the time of day ?
    "Some preachers will keep silence about the truth, and others will trample it underfoot and deny it. Sanctity of life will be held in derision even by those who outwardly profess it, for in those days Our Lord Jesus Christ will send them not a true Pastor but a destroyer."  St. Francis of Assisi


    Offline Incredulous

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    Re: IS HE OR ISN'T FELLAY A FREEMASON
    « Reply #47 on: May 14, 2019, 10:10:59 PM »
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  • Meg, you nailed it. Only a Plinio-worshipping, member of what Bishop Mayer called an "anti-Catholic, anti-clerical . .heretical sect" could come up with such a ludicrous attack on the good Bishop (without whom, none of us would have access to the TLM).
    How bizarre that a member of the TFP/TIA cult would attempt to charge another group with being the "controlled opposition." Think about it. Who ACTUALLY is the controlled opposition? TFP and its splinter groups, TIA, America Needs Fatima and many more.
    The ONLY counter-revolution to the freemasonic, illuminist, communist, satanic revolution is the One Holy Catholic and Apostolic Church established by Jesus Christ as a HIERARCHY, with St. Peter as its head. Jesus said "Thou art Peter and upon this rock I found my Church and the gates of hell will not prevail against it."
    TFP/TIA and other Plinio- worshiping groups are NOT the counter-revolution; they are the controlled opposition. They elevate the laity over the hierarchy founded by Jesus Christ.
    They are a cult which appeals to pride by telling their recruits that they are "special" and part of the "elite" and others "just don't want to understand." They are a cult who worships their founder Plinio. They make a mockery of Catholic prayer when they change the words of the Ave Maria to make it a prayer to Plinio. They make a mockery of Catholic tradition, when they take Louis de Montfort's consecration to Our Lady and twist it instead, into a consecration to Plinio, as Atila did when he laid face down before Plinio, with Plinio's foot on his neck, and Atila then made himself a slave to Plinio, taking his slave name in this mockery of a "consecration".
    The Plinio- worshiping cults are the controlled opposition. They accuse others of being what they themselves are. (Just like Clinton colluding with Russia and then accusing  Trump of doing what she actually did.)

    Oh man, Fr. Purdy's trad groupies never give up attempting to derail an incriminating SSPX topic  :facepalm:



    They tried so hard to divert attention from the discovery of Fr. Purdy's change agent groupie, Jade Liboro and her infiltration into the Quito convent.
    "Some preachers will keep silence about the truth, and others will trample it underfoot and deny it. Sanctity of life will be held in derision even by those who outwardly profess it, for in those days Our Lord Jesus Christ will send them not a true Pastor but a destroyer."  St. Francis of Assisi

    Offline Incredulous

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    Re: IS HE OR ISN'T FELLAY A FREEMASON
    « Reply #48 on: May 14, 2019, 10:29:29 PM »
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  • So, it seems clear, Bp. Fellay is a freemason.

    We can say this because of his documented lies and MO for secret meetings, his associations with jews and his acceptance of
    large sums of their monies, as attested to by the SSPX zionist attorney, Max Krah.

    But exactly when did he join the lodge? 

    Was it before he was enrolled as an SSPX seminarian?

    This is the question.
    "Some preachers will keep silence about the truth, and others will trample it underfoot and deny it. Sanctity of life will be held in derision even by those who outwardly profess it, for in those days Our Lord Jesus Christ will send them not a true Pastor but a destroyer."  St. Francis of Assisi

    Offline RoughAshlar

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    Re: IS HE OR ISN'T FELLAY A FREEMASON
    « Reply #49 on: May 15, 2019, 08:03:48 AM »
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  • Lol, he may be many things, but he definitely not a Freemason. 


    Offline Ladislaus

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    Re: IS HE OR ISN'T FELLAY A FREEMASON
    « Reply #50 on: May 15, 2019, 08:07:17 AM »
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  • Meg, you nailed it. Only a Plinio-worshipping ...

    All of your comments regarding TFP are to be summarily ignored until you come clean and explain why you have such a big ax to grind against them.

    It's one thing to say that +Lefebvre was a Freemason and another to suggest that he made some decisions based on pressure from people who were themselves Freemasons ... e.g., the benefactors of +Fellay or, say, from Father Schmidberger (and others).

    Offline Ladislaus

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    Re: IS HE OR ISN'T FELLAY A FREEMASON
    « Reply #51 on: May 15, 2019, 08:08:30 AM »
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  • Lol, he may be many things, but he definitely not a Freemason.

    You'll excuse us if we don't put a lot of stock in a gratuitous assertion made by someone with a Masonic screen name.

    Offline Ladislaus

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    Re: IS HE OR ISN'T FELLAY A FREEMASON
    « Reply #52 on: May 15, 2019, 08:10:14 AM »
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  • So, it seems clear, Bp. Fellay is a freemason.

    We can say this because of his documented lies and MO for secret meetings, his associations with jews and his acceptance of
    large sums of their monies, as attested to by the SSPX zionist attorney, Max Krah.

    Well, he could be under Masonic control without actually being a Mason himself.


    Offline RoughAshlar

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    Re: IS HE OR ISN'T FELLAY A FREEMASON
    « Reply #53 on: May 15, 2019, 09:27:42 AM »
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  • You'll excuse us if we don't put a lot of stock in a gratuitous assertion made by someone with a Masonic screen name.
    I've never denied being one when asked.  Heck, I think I openly admitted it during the flat earth debates a year or two ago. I'm just stating that admonishing a man for his faults is one thing, but connecting imaginary dots and declaring him to be not Catholic anymore is something else entirely.  The Church has made it quite clear.  If you are a mason, then you are excommunicated.  You are outside the Church.  I free acknowledge this. 
    This is the question.

    The accusers take things way to far.  Its not enough to condemn Bishop Fellay's actions.  There must be a plot behind it so devious that it would invalidate all of his sacraments. In this thread we have seen not only Bishop Fellay being maligned and accused of being a freemason, but also the Archbishop's character, intentions and influence in creating the SSPX were maligned.  You are so concerned about freemasons destroying what's left of Church that you are actively tearing yourselves apart.
    When someone joins a lodge, they sign the bi-law of the lodge.  None of these records are secret.  It would be rather difficult to attend the meetings anonymously.  It would be noticed if the bishop was always somewhere on the first and third Tuesdays at 7pm.  There would be a money trail with his dues card that shows he is in good standing with that lodge.  Even if none of that matters, his values are not masonic.  I personally don't believe he would be accepted because of who he is, let alone his beliefs.
    Fr. Hewko years ago accused the SSPX of being masonic for having closed door meetings.  Equally ridiculous, I've even seen that Bishop Williamson was accused of being a Rosicrucianism on some website years ago.  Now it's bishop Fellay and the questioning of the Archbishop's intentions.  I just find it nonsense.  Its a zero sum game when you play it this way.  Someone does something wrong (the bishop actively compromising with the conciliar Church) and people cast doubt on his sacraments?  Example, A convert to the old SSPX gets conditionally reconfirmed by Bishop Fellay years ago...are you going to recommend that anyone who receive confirmation again through Bishop Williamson?  I actually wonder what Bishop Williamson would say if someone approached him with that concern.  I just wanted to say that Bishop Fellay is not a freemason.  I'm done.

    Offline Matthew

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    Re: IS HE OR ISN'T FELLAY A FREEMASON
    « Reply #54 on: May 15, 2019, 09:37:07 AM »
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  • Incred,

    You never rebutted my slam-dunk argument.

    What evidence do you have that +Fellay is a Freemason at all? Because he welcomed/formed/supports Max Krah, destroyed the SSPX, etc.? The long list of problems with Bishop Fellay does make you wonder. UNTIL YOU CONSIDER that those problems apply equally to about 1/3 of the priests in the SSPX.

    Remember, in Catholic morality there are 9 ways to commit a sin. Committing an act personally is only one of the ways.

    The other two bishops bear almost as much responsibility as +Fellay for anything he has done -- due to their silence, consent, assistance, etc.

    When a crew robs a bank, the ringleader isn't the only one who goes to jail! Those who conspired with him, worked with him, helped him, etc. will also go to jail. And for good reason!

    Explaining +Fellay's actions away as "well, he's a card-carrying Freemason!" causes more problems than it solves. So what about his two accomplice Bishops who did little/nothing -- at least nothing effective -- despite their stature and fame? Just look at what +Williamson did meanwhile. Compare their actions to +W's actions.

    If it takes "being a Freemason" to do what +Fellay did, then about 1/3 of the SSPX priests and all 3 bishops must be secret, card-carrying members of the Freemasonic cult. And considering that not even ONE SSPX priest has been exposed as being a secret Freemason thus far, I would say it's impossible for dozens (up to 240) SSPX priests to do this.

    I understand where you're coming from, but the facts just don't require it.

    Besides, what does it matter if +Fellay is a Freemason, or just totally duped into taking the SSPX in a horrible direction? What difference does it make, really? The Modern World is a freemasonic one. Vatican II is all about opening up to the Modern World. The SSPX, led by +Fellay, has certainly become more friendly to the modern world/Conciliar Church/Vatican II in the past several years. That much is indisputable. Freemason or dupe, it's equally tragic.
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    Offline Incredulous

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    Re: IS HE OR ISN'T FELLAY A FREEMASON
    « Reply #55 on: May 15, 2019, 11:45:23 PM »
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  • The topic simply asks is Fellay a Freemason?

    The problem plaguing the Church for the past 200 years has been systematic, covert Freemasonic infiltration... correct?
    I haven't actually counted, but have heard there are more Church encyclical warnings on Freemasonry than any other papal topic.

    Roncalli and Bugnini were only outed decades after they died?   But they were crypto-masons.

    The idea that Bp. Fellay is a Freemasonic plant is tenable, when you consider his inexplicable actions fit with all the other plants within the Church (Rampolla, Roncalli, Montini and the many other lists of exposed clerics).

    The end effect of invalid SSPX Sacraments never crossed my mind, but it too, would fit nicely into the Freemasonic agenda.

    We've been overly charitable by thinking Bp. Fellay is just a confused dupe, when the end result of his actions reveal a sly fox implementing a premeditated plan.


    "Some preachers will keep silence about the truth, and others will trample it underfoot and deny it. Sanctity of life will be held in derision even by those who outwardly profess it, for in those days Our Lord Jesus Christ will send them not a true Pastor but a destroyer."  St. Francis of Assisi


    Offline homeschoolmom

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    Re: IS HE OR ISN'T FELLAY A FREEMASON
    « Reply #56 on: May 16, 2019, 05:59:36 AM »
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  • The end effect of invalid SSPX Sacraments never crossed my mind, but it too, would fit nicely into the Freemasonic agenda.

    Freemasonry invalidates sacraments? I thought that the sacraments are the sacraments and whatever nefarious things a clergyman may be involved in only serves to condemn himself. How is freemasonry different?

    We've been overly charitable by thinking Bp. Fellay is just a confused dupe, when the end result of his actions reveal a sly fox implementing a premeditated plan.

    This is what I was thinking. The conservatives do this endlessly for the VII Popes. I'm personally not interested in doing that for +Fellay. Having said that, I also agree it isn't necessary that he be a freemason. There are certainly some in the SSPX, but who they are is not something many of us are in a position to know.

    Offline Incredulous

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    Re: IS HE OR ISN'T FELLAY A FREEMASON
    « Reply #57 on: May 16, 2019, 08:17:25 AM »
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  • I've never denied being one when asked.  Heck, I think I openly admitted it during the flat earth debates a year or two ago. I'm just stating that admonishing a man for his faults is one thing, but connecting imaginary dots and declaring him to be not Catholic anymore is something else entirely.  The Church has made it quite clear.  If you are a mason, then you are excommunicated.  You are outside the Church.  I free acknowledge this.
    The accusers take things way to far.  Its not enough to condemn Bishop Fellay's actions.  There must be a plot behind it so devious that it would invalidate all of his sacraments. In this thread we have seen not only Bishop Fellay being maligned and accused of being a freemason, but also the Archbishop's character, intentions and influence in creating the SSPX were maligned.  You are so concerned about freemasons destroying what's left of Church that you are actively tearing yourselves apart.
    When someone joins a lodge, they sign the bi-law of the lodge.  None of these records are secret.  It would be rather difficult to attend the meetings anonymously.  It would be noticed if the bishop was always somewhere on the first and third Tuesdays at 7pm.  There would be a money trail with his dues card that shows he is in good standing with that lodge.  Even if none of that matters, his values are not masonic.  I personally don't believe he would be accepted because of who he is, let alone his beliefs.
    Fr. Hewko years ago accused the SSPX of being masonic for having closed door meetings.  Equally ridiculous, I've even seen that Bishop Williamson was accused of being a Rosicrucianism on some website years ago.  Now it's bishop Fellay and the questioning of the Archbishop's intentions.  I just find it nonsense.  Its a zero sum game when you play it this way.  Someone does something wrong (the bishop actively compromising with the conciliar Church) and people cast doubt on his sacraments?  Example, A convert to the old SSPX gets conditionally reconfirmed by Bishop Fellay years ago...are you going to recommend that anyone who receive confirmation again through Bishop Williamson?  I actually wonder what Bishop Williamson would say if someone approached him with that concern.  I just wanted to say that Bishop Fellay is not a freemason.  I'm done.


    Freemasonry's position on Catholics joining the Fraternity

    Masonic bodies do not ban Catholics from joining if they wish to do so.[127] There has never been a Masonic prohibition against Catholics joining the fraternity, and some Freemasons are Catholics, despite the Catholic Church's prohibition of joining the Freemasons.  Link

    Seems...  you may still need a little more bake time.... :jester:
    "Some preachers will keep silence about the truth, and others will trample it underfoot and deny it. Sanctity of life will be held in derision even by those who outwardly profess it, for in those days Our Lord Jesus Christ will send them not a true Pastor but a destroyer."  St. Francis of Assisi

    Offline Incredulous

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    Re: IS HE OR ISN'T FELLAY A FREEMASON
    « Reply #58 on: May 16, 2019, 08:37:10 AM »
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  • "The idea that Bp. Fellay is a Freemasonic plant is tenable" BUT NOT LEFEBVRE!  lol

    I won't argue the point... and thumbs up to you!

    About two years ago, Matthew beat me about the head and shoulders on the topic of +ABL's priestly ordination in 1929 by then, Bishop Lienart... who was later found to be a high-level, masonic infiltrator.  I believe Lienart revealed it at his deathbed?


              Card. Lienart

    Matthew and others pointed out that the Sacrament of Holy Orders was automatically conferred at +ABL's Consecration to Bishop. 

    So, I won't argue against this fact, but many sedes attack the validity of SSPX Holy Orders based on the Lienart problem.
    "Some preachers will keep silence about the truth, and others will trample it underfoot and deny it. Sanctity of life will be held in derision even by those who outwardly profess it, for in those days Our Lord Jesus Christ will send them not a true Pastor but a destroyer."  St. Francis of Assisi

    Offline Incredulous

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    Re: IS HE OR ISN'T FELLAY A FREEMASON
    « Reply #59 on: May 16, 2019, 09:09:13 AM »
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  • Quote from: Incredulous on Yesterday at 11:45:23 PM
    Quote
    The end effect of invalid SSPX Sacraments never crossed my mind, but it too, would fit nicely into the Freemasonic agenda.

    Freemasonry invalidates sacraments? I thought that the sacraments are the sacraments and whatever nefarious things a clergyman may be involved in only serves to condemn himself. How is freemasonry different?

    We've been overly charitable by thinking Bp. Fellay is just a confused dupe, when the end result of his actions reveal a sly fox implementing a premeditated plan.

    This is what I was thinking. The conservatives do this endlessly for the VII Popes. I'm personally not interested in doing that for +Fellay. Having said that, I also agree it isn't necessary that he be a freemason. There are certainly some in the SSPX, but who they are is not something many of us are in a position to know.

    Thanks for the feedback HMS.

    Pardon the Wiki source, but it was the quickest click. Papal bans on Freemasonry

    The Church has been very adamant in it's excommunication of Freemasons.  
    So if Msgr. Fellay is crypto-masonic it would present some big problems for the Society.

    Canon Law from 1917 details it and even the modern "jew-popes" had trouble erasing the penalties.
    Although they tried their best to undermine and/or dilute them.
    "Some preachers will keep silence about the truth, and others will trample it underfoot and deny it. Sanctity of life will be held in derision even by those who outwardly profess it, for in those days Our Lord Jesus Christ will send them not a true Pastor but a destroyer."  St. Francis of Assisi

     

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