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Author Topic: IS HE OR ISN'T FELLAY A FREEMASON  (Read 9185 times)

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Offline Matthew

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Re: IS HE OR ISN'T FELLAY A FREEMASON
« Reply #30 on: May 13, 2019, 01:28:22 PM »
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    • Quote from: Ladislaus on May 13, 2019, 01:23:55 PM
    I'm not sure I agree.  +Tissier had been against the reunification efforts, but then caved.  Left to his own devices, he would not have gone down +Fellay's path.  +Galaretta I barely hear a peep out of.  It almost sounds like he doesn't care one way or the other, and hasn't cared since his consecration.

    All it takes for the triumph of evil is for "good" men to do nothing.
    If you let evil run unchecked, and do nothing to stop it, I don't consider you a good man (maybe a poor, miserable or weak man, worthy of pity) -- but I digress.
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    Offline Ladislaus

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    Re: IS HE OR ISN'T FELLAY A FREEMASON
    « Reply #31 on: May 13, 2019, 01:29:47 PM »
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    • Quote from: SeanJohnson on May 13, 2019, 06:34:18 AM
    That Archbishop Lefebvre only initially intended to consecrate 3 bishops is docuмented on the SSPX.org website here:

    "On February 2nd, the Archbishop announces in Flavigny before television cameras that he will consecrate three bishops on June 30th."

    http://archives.sspx.org/SSPX_FAQs/a_short_history_of_the_sspx-part-5.htm

    That Fr. Fellay was not among these initial candidates comes from a personal email from Bishop Williamson here:

    "Upon information and belief, it was the Archbishop's friend, Attorney Roger Lovey, who asked on behalf of the Archbishop's Swiss drivers all over Europe, for a fourth priest from Switzerland to be added to the three priests already chosen to be consecrated bishops. The Archbishop agreed out of gratitude to his drivers. Fr Bernard Fellay seemed to be the best suited, and the rest is history."

    To do something in gratitude is not the same as doing it for money.  And I suppose you could suspect that I am fraudulently attributing this quote to Bishop Williamson, or made it up myself (but in that case, you could simply write to Bishop Williamson to verify).  Or, you could question the source of Bishop Williamson's information.  But if he is going to tell it to me, it is going to be the truth.  For me, his word suffices.

    I'm not sure why the whole Swiss thing was even an issue.  Language/culture were the key, and it's not like Switzerland has its own unique culture.  They mostly use German and French.  So +Lefebvre chose a native English speaker, a native Spanish speaker, and a native French speaker.  If anything he might have added a German speaker, but I believe that there are few Germans in SSPX.  +Schmidberger would have been a logical choice (even though I don't like him, and never have).  Does +Fellay even speak German well?

    In any case, the other choices were about language/culture and not so much nationality.
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    Offline Pax Vobis

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    Re: IS HE OR ISN'T FELLAY A FREEMASON
    « Reply #32 on: May 13, 2019, 02:17:40 PM »
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    • Quote
    +Tissier had been against the reunification efforts, but then caved.  Left to his own devices, he would not have gone down +Fellay's path. 
    +Fellay said he was against reunification too, at first.  +Tissier was banished to the lowly chicago chapel for a while.  Maybe he was given an ultimatum?  I agree he's not as complicit at +Fellay, but in the end, he's still a compromiser.  The degree of compromise will never be known.
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    Offline Ladislaus

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    Re: IS HE OR ISN'T FELLAY A FREEMASON
    « Reply #33 on: May 13, 2019, 02:29:43 PM »
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    • Quote from: Matthew on May 13, 2019, 01:28:22 PM
    All it takes for the triumph of evil is for "good" men to do nothing.
    If you let evil run unchecked, and do nothing to stop it, I don't consider you a good man (maybe a poor, miserable or weak man, worthy of pity) -- but I digress.

    I don't disagree with that.  My point was only that it seems that +Fellay is more positively pro-reunification than the other two bishops.
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    Offline Ladislaus

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    Re: IS HE OR ISN'T FELLAY A FREEMASON
    « Reply #34 on: May 13, 2019, 02:31:38 PM »
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    • Quote from: Pax Vobis on May 13, 2019, 02:17:40 PM
    +Tissier was banished to the lowly chicago chapel for a while.  Maybe he was given an ultimatum?

    Yes, wasn't that interesting?  Actually, a couple years ago he came to our podunk little Independent chapel in Akron to offer Mass on Christmas Day ... when our elderly priest was out for a hip surgery.  I recall that Father Carley complained to the SSPX bitterly that they couldn't find a fill-in for him ... after he had left all his (substantial) property to the SSPX in his will.  I had warned him not to do that, by the way.  In fact, I had been on the board of trustees there, but I resigned after Father asked me to sign the docuмent.  I wouldn't sign it, and I resigned instead.  Very politely, and without hard feelings.  I'll always be grateful to Father for his many years of service to my extended family.  But I just couldn't put my name on it in good conscience.  In any case, I suspect he may have threatened to remove them from his will if they didn't send a replacement, and then none other than +Tissier showed up unannounced to offer Mass on Christmas Day.

    Does anyone have information about why +Tissier was marginalized like that?
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    Offline cosmas

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    Re: IS HE OR ISN'T FELLAY A FREEMASON
    « Reply #35 on: May 13, 2019, 04:25:51 PM »
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    • Ladislaus, its my understanding that it happened after the 2012 Chapter. at the chapter things got heated,Bishop Tissier stood up to Bishop Fellay, also the fact that at the beginning the three Bishops went against Bishop Fellay. He evidently threatened Bishop de Gallerreta and Bishop Tissier. Not long after they were sent away from their countries they were in. They both had a large following in those countries. Haven't heard much of a fight from either of them,now its go along to get along with Rome.
    We know what happened to Bishop Williamson,for speaking the Truth.
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    Offline Pax Vobis

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    Re: IS HE OR ISN'T FELLAY A FREEMASON
    « Reply #36 on: May 13, 2019, 04:36:35 PM »
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    • I know it's difficult for older people to change, but man, they should just leave and join the resistance.  They could go back to their countries, semi-retire, write against Modernism and they'd be taken care of materially and all of that.  Easier said than done, I suppose.  They'd have to cut ties with all their fraternity friends and such.  But, then again, life isn't easy!  Have to make sacrifices for the Faith!  I pray they can make this decision one day.
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    Offline Incredulous

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    Re: IS HE OR ISN'T FELLAY A FREEMASON
    « Reply #37 on: May 13, 2019, 10:50:09 PM »
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    • Quote from: Meg on May 13, 2019, 11:09:00 AM
    What is it exactly that's hard to determine regarding the influence that +ABL was under? Why would you question his intentions?


    Have you ever heard the supposition that SSPX was purposefully formed to be the "controlled opposition" to the Conciliar church?
    (The ʝʊdɛօ-masonic metric is to instigate the revolution, but always control the opposition to the revolution).

    +ABL came in contact with many different groups during the early days of the SSPX.

    Please read my previous posts on the benefactors, Princess Pallavicini and Mr. Lovey.

    This was before the internet and much of their written history has been scrubbed clean.
    What's left of that history is being "re-written" by SSPX propaganda outlets, like Catholic Family News.
    You can investigate them and do your own research.

    Suffice to say, if we took Bp. Fellay's word that Max Krah, "... is a good Catholic man", the Resistance movement would have been retarded by a few years and Bp. Williamson would probably still be living in the priory attic at Wimbledon.


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    "Some preachers will keep silence about the truth, and others will trample it underfoot and deny it. Sanctity of life will be held in derision even by those who outwardly profess it, for in those days Our Lord Jesus Christ will send them not a true Pastor but a destroyer."  St. Francis of Assisi

    Offline Meg

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    Re: IS HE OR ISN'T FELLAY A FREEMASON
    « Reply #38 on: May 14, 2019, 07:46:17 AM »
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    • Quote from: Incredulous on May 13, 2019, 10:50:09 PM

    Have you ever heard the supposition that SSPX was purposefully formed to be the "controlled opposition" to the Conciliar church?
    (The ʝʊdɛօ-masonic metric is to instigate the revolution, but always control the opposition to the revolution).

    +ABL came in contact with many different groups during the early days of the SSPX.

    Please read my previous posts on the benefactors, Princess Pallavicini and Mr. Lovey.

    This was before the internet and much of their written history has been scrubbed clean.
    What's left of that history is being "re-written" by SSPX propaganda outlets, like Catholic Family News.
    You can investigate them and do your own research.

    Suffice to say, if we took Bp. Fellay's word that Max Krah, "... is a good Catholic man", the Resistance movement would have been retarded by a few years and Bp. Williamson would probably still be living in the priory attic at Wimbledon.

    I'm not going to do research on your accusation of whom influenced +ABL. Obviously you don't want to substantiate your accusation here, though evidently, no one here except me cares that you are anti-Archbishop Lefebvre.

    You seem to think that +ABL was under control of Freemasons. Well, that's probably not an unusual belief for a follower of Plinio de Oliveira and Atila Guimaraes. Guimaraes has always been very anti-SSPX from the beginning, and I assume that de Oliveira had also been anti-SSPX. But of course those two held/hold belief that de Oliveira was the true prophet sent by God to restore the Church, and that the SSPX from the beginning was a distraction away from this. Would that be right?
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    "It is licit to resist a Sovereign Pontiff who is trying to destroy the Church. I say it is licit to resist him in not following his orders and in preventing the execution of his will. It is not licit to Judge him, to punish him, or to depose him, for these are acts proper to a superior."

    ~St. Robert Bellarmine
    De Romano Pontifice, Lib.II, c.29

    Offline Ladislaus

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    Re: IS HE OR ISN'T FELLAY A FREEMASON
    « Reply #39 on: May 14, 2019, 08:22:09 AM »
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    • Quote from: cosmas on May 13, 2019, 04:25:51 PM
    Ladislaus, its my understanding that it happened after the 2012 Chapter. at the chapter things got heated,Bishop Tissier stood up to Bishop Fellay, also the fact that at the beginning the three Bishops went against Bishop Fellay. He evidently threatened Bishop de Gallerreta and Bishop Tissier. Not long after they were sent away from their countries they were in. They both had a large following in those countries. Haven't heard much of a fight from either of them,now its go along to get along with Rome.
    We know what happened to Bishop Williamson,for speaking the Truth.

    Thank you.  I wonder what he used to "threaten" the bishops, explusion?
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    Offline Ladislaus

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    Re: IS HE OR ISN'T FELLAY A FREEMASON
    « Reply #40 on: May 14, 2019, 08:24:57 AM »
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    • I don't believe that the SSPX was FOUNDED as "controlled opposition", but I do believe that the enemies of Tradition immediately saw an opportunity to take it over and turn it into controlled opposition, most likely by sending in infiltrators.

    Could they have sent in men like Father Schmidberger and +Fellay?  Of course they could have.

    What else is the neo-SSPX besides controlled opposition?

    https://novusordowatch.org/tag/franz-schmidberger/
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    Offline B from A

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    Re: IS HE OR ISN'T FELLAY A FREEMASON
    « Reply #41 on: May 14, 2019, 09:40:09 AM »
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    • Quote from: Ladislaus on May 14, 2019, 08:24:57 AM
    I don't believe that the SSPX was FOUNDED as "controlled opposition", but I do believe that the enemies of Tradition immediately saw an opportunity to take it over and turn it into controlled opposition, most likely by sending in infiltrators.
    .
    This. 
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    Offline Matthew

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    Re: IS HE OR ISN'T FELLAY A FREEMASON
    « Reply #42 on: May 14, 2019, 09:52:40 AM »
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    • Quote from: Ladislaus on May 14, 2019, 08:24:57 AM
    I don't believe that the SSPX was FOUNDED as "controlled opposition", but I do believe that the enemies of Tradition immediately saw an opportunity to take it over and turn it into controlled opposition, most likely by sending in infiltrators.

    Could they have sent in men like Father Schmidberger and +Fellay?  Of course they could have.

    What else is the neo-SSPX besides controlled opposition?

    https://novusordowatch.org/tag/franz-schmidberger/

    I agree. And I would add: any "approved by Rome" group is inherently, and automatically, "controlled opposition". This now includes the neo-SSPX.

    Remember that much bigger fish -- ahem, an organization called THE CATHOLIC CHURCH -- were infiltrated by Communists and Freemasons in the last century. What kind of naive IDIOT would believe that Freemasons and others would be prevented from infiltrating a MERE BRANCH of the tree like the SSPX?

    AA-1025. Those men knew how to infiltrate the Church. They have to walk the walk, be of good reputation, be very pious, etc. or they'd never get ordained as priests!

    What, did Christ not protect the Church Herself from infiltration, but He protects the SSPX like the apple of His eye? Wouldn't it be vain and proud to actually believe that? What kind of insanity, what kind of SSPX Exceptionalism, would it take to believe such ludicrous nonsense?
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    Offline Matthew

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    Re: IS HE OR ISN'T FELLAY A FREEMASON
    « Reply #43 on: May 14, 2019, 09:55:45 AM »
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    • Quote from: Ladislaus on May 13, 2019, 02:29:43 PM
    I don't disagree with that.  My point was only that it seems that +Fellay is more positively pro-reunification than the other two bishops.

    Yes indeed.

    Bishop Fellay is on a different level than the other two.
    The other two bishops are just weak, naive, imprudent, etc.
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    Offline Cera

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    Re: IS HE OR ISN'T FELLAY A FREEMASON
    « Reply #44 on: May 14, 2019, 12:58:15 PM »
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    • Quote from: Meg on May 14, 2019, 07:46:17 AM
    You seem to think that +ABL was under control of Freemasons. Well, that's probably not an unusual belief for a follower of Plinio de Oliveira and Atila Guimaraes. Guimaraes has always been very anti-SSPX from the beginning, and I assume that de Oliveira had also been anti-SSPX. But of course those two held/hold belief that de Oliveira was the true prophet sent by God to restore the Church, and that the SSPX from the beginning was a distraction away from this. Would that be right?
    Meg, you nailed it. Only a Plinio-worshipping, member of what Bishop Mayer called an "anti-Catholic, anti-clerical . .heretical sect" could come up with such a ludicrous attack on the good Bishop (without whom, none of us would have access to the TLM).
    How bizarre that a member of the TFP/TIA cult would attempt to charge another group with being the "controlled opposition." Think about it. Who ACTUALLY is the controlled opposition? TFP and its splinter groups, TIA, America Needs Fatima and many more.
    The ONLY counter-revolution to the freemasonic, illuminist, communist, satanic revolution is the One Holy Catholic and Apostolic Church established by Jesus Christ as a HIERARCHY, with St. Peter as its head. Jesus said "Thou art Peter and upon this rock I found my Church and the gates of hell will not prevail against it."
    TFP/TIA and other Plinio- worshiping groups are NOT the counter-revolution; they are the controlled opposition. They elevate the laity over the hierarchy founded by Jesus Christ.
    They are a cult which appeals to pride by telling their recruits that they are "special" and part of the "elite" and others "just don't want to understand." They are a cult who worships their founder Plinio. They make a mockery of Catholic prayer when they change the words of the Ave Maria to make it a prayer to Plinio. They make a mockery of Catholic tradition, when they take Louis de Montfort's consecration to Our Lady and twist it instead, into a consecration to Plinio, as Atila did when he laid face down before Plinio, with Plinio's foot on his neck, and Atila then made himself a slave to Plinio, taking his slave name in this mockery of a "consecration".
    The Plinio- worshiping cults are the controlled opposition. They accuse others of being what they themselves are. (Just like Clinton colluding with Russia and then accusing  Trump of doing what she actually did.)
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