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Author Topic: IS HE OR ISN'T FELLAY A FREEMASON  (Read 34307 times)

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Re: IS HE OR ISN'T FELLAY A FREEMASON
« Reply #20 on: May 13, 2019, 08:12:38 AM »
Of course I wouldn’t know, but I don’t think there’s much behind Mr. Lovey.  According to all accounts, he was an honorable man, and the fact of his friendship with Archbishop Lefebvre speaks to that.

Interestingly, it seems he died in the same hour that his son (Fr. Lovey) was ordained a priest.  Equally interesting is that this was the only priestly ordination performed by Archbishop Lefebvre after the 1988 consecrations.

Offline Matthew

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Re: IS HE OR ISN'T FELLAY A FREEMASON
« Reply #21 on: May 13, 2019, 08:34:33 AM »
I agree, This seems awfully optimistic. I would hazard to guess the amount to be closer to half.

NO! You're totally missing an important point:
1/2 of them don't care, and will go whichever way the wind blows.

Another 1/3 is positively leaning in the new direction. Probably less than 1/6th is conservative or has any kind of strong feelings for sticking with +ABL's old SSPX.

It's even more complicated -- because many are conservative and want to stick with +ABL, but they are ignorant about what that means!

I don't think more than 1/3 is actively desiring a change towards Modern Rome.


Offline Pax Vobis

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Re: IS HE OR ISN'T FELLAY A FREEMASON
« Reply #22 on: May 13, 2019, 09:35:03 AM »
Most things in life are the 80/20 rule.  20% are highly engaged in a movement, organization, philosophy, etc (i.e. leaders).  The rest of the 80% are followers and will listen to the arguments on both sides but aren't able to fully and independently think for themselves.  (This is not a knock against them; God just designed most people to be followers.  Not everyone can be a leader.  Each has specific duties and responsibilities.  An organization will die for lack of leadership or a lack of good followers.  Both are essential.)
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In the case of the sspx, when +ABL was alive, you had a clear leader of a small organization and he was, de facto, the full 20% of leadership.  Their organization ran pretty smoothly because the vision was clear, the rule of the organization was simple, and with few exceptions (i.e. "the nine" or the priests who left for the fssp), there was no challenge to +ABL's leadership or purpose.
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Once +Fellay was elected a 2nd time as SG, I think that's when he and his buddies decided to make some changes.  I guess we'll never know why +Fellay decided to sell his soul to new-rome (until we're in heaven), but putting aside the reasons, it is clear that he has embarked on a path of change.  +Williamson was going to be the obvious roadblock in all of this, so he was exiled from Winona and then kicked out all together.  It's suprising that the other 2 bishops were won over so easily to +Fellay's side, yet Frenchmen and South Americans have never been known to have a lot of backbone or leadership qualities, ha ha.
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(It could be that +Fellay is also a patsy who is following a hidden leadership group within the new-sspx.  Much like the president of a country is told what to do by unelected cabinet members who really run things decade after decade.  This is probably the most likely scenario.  The idea that +Fellay could navigate the cunning, slow, progressive liberalization of the sspx over the past 10 years, in which priest after priest has been slowly trained to spit out the same message from the pulpits across the whole world, is naive.  Certainly there are multiple people involved in this operation of liberalization.  To change an organization from within is a hallmark of communism/Fɾҽҽmαsσɳɾყ; this expertise is not learned overnight.  There are experts involved, for sure.  +Fellay does not strike me as an expert on much of anything, ha ha, except that of lying and political double-speak.  Again, where did he learn these skills?  He wasn't always like this.)
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So we have now the former 20% of +ABL's leadership split between +Fellay and +Williamson.  The rest of the 80% of priests and laity are left to decide whom to follow, with many changing their minds constantly, based on the day, the newest sermon, the weather or any other sentimental reason.  As far as numbers go, certainly the new-sspx is winning and the resistance seems to have reached a high point (as far as growth from new-sspx'ers, not a high-point in future growth).  If the new-sspx keeps their slow, steady walk towards new-rome, they won't lose too many more priests/people.  Only if there is a scandal or some turbulence will *some* wake up and see that the resistance is correct.  (Just like in our own spiritual lives...unless God sends us stress and misery, we will not change).
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But, the resistance is quality over quantity!  It is full of good, passionate, engaged people who care about the Faith!  This is what God wants!  The new-sspx is full of lukewarmness and compromise.  These types of people will never accomplish anything; they are too asleep and lethargic to act.
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Let us all pray for a scandal, some turbulence, some pain for the new-sspx, that those who are of good-will can be woken up from their slumber.  The resistance (and the rest of Trad-dom) does not need numbers but we do need quality people.  Let us pray that God will wrestle out the last few souls from the new-sspx's rotting apple, before it's too late!

Re: IS HE OR ISN'T FELLAY A FREEMASON
« Reply #23 on: May 13, 2019, 09:40:22 AM »
NO! You're totally missing an important point:
1/2 of them don't care, and will go whichever way the wind blows.

Another 1/3 is positively leaning in the new direction. Probably less than 1/6th is conservative or has any kind of strong feelings for sticking with +ABL's old SSPX.

It's even more complicated -- because many are conservative and want to stick with +ABL, but they are ignorant about what that means!

I don't think more than 1/3 is actively desiring a change towards Modern Rome.
I would say this is even high. A lot of people I know personally don’t “like it” but the same people have told me that they would go to the FSSP but it’s further away, or the Indult, but there’s not enough community, etc. From what I’ve seen, people at the SSPX parishes I know are more interested in coffee after Mass and beer at so and so’s house, and the hockey game then what is going on with Tradition. So much for the Church Militant. More like the church passive. 

Offline Matthew

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Re: IS HE OR ISN'T FELLAY A FREEMASON
« Reply #24 on: May 13, 2019, 09:45:07 AM »
I agree, the percentages are up for debate, and we'll never know for sure. It's hard to nail that down.

However, the point (which can't be disputed) is this: when calculating the % pro- classic SSPX position, and the % pro-Modernist Rome, you have to take into account the large % of SSPX Faithful who are followers, apathetic, who will go along with whatever the SSPX leadership does.

This large % is anywhere from 50% up to 90%. One can debate the specifics, but not the general principle.