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Author Topic: Is Father Ringrose dumping the R & R crowd?  (Read 440948 times)

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Offline Maria Auxiliadora

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Re: Is Father Ringrose dumping the R & R crowd?
« Reply #985 on: May 07, 2018, 08:31:15 PM »
Quote from: Ladislaus on May 07, 2018, 08:20:01 PM
Nonsene.  Designation by the Church disposes the matter to receive the form and puts it in proximate potency to receive the form.  Otherwise, any layman walking around is the same as the pope-elect.
:facepalm:
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Offline Maria Auxiliadora

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Re: Is Father Ringrose dumping the R & R crowd?
« Reply #986 on: May 07, 2018, 08:35:48 PM »
Quote from: Ladislaus on May 07, 2018, 08:18:57 PM
OK, once again, the substance of the papacy is not the matter.  Individual designated by the Church is the matter.  Office / power of the papacy is the form.  Please read St. Robert Bellarmine before posting again.

Quote St. Robert, then. Skip the babel.
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Offline drew

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Re: Is Father Ringrose dumping the R & R crowd?
« Reply #987 on: May 07, 2018, 10:11:08 PM »
Quote from: Ladislaus on May 07, 2018, 08:18:57 PM
OK, once again, the substance of the papacy is not the matter.  Individual designated by the Church is the matter.  Office / power of the papacy is the form.  Please read St. Robert Bellarmine before posting again.

Ladialaus, 

Once again it makes no difference what you are posting.  You routinely make distinctions that are not possible and ignore distinctions that are necessary. The papacy itself consists of both prime matter and its substantial form and the proposition that a person can possess the material papacy and not the formal papacy is to divine the substance of the office itself and destroy it. 
 
The pope is not identical with the papacy. There is an ontological distinction.  The person of the pope is secondary matter and accidental to the office itself for accidents only subsist in secondary matter, not in prime matter.  When the pope dies, the office is not dissolved which would necessarily occur if the person of the pope were the prime matter of the office and there would be nothing left to appoint a successor.  The unity of the pope and the papacy is again accidental but whoever is united to the papacy possess both its prime matter and its substantial form.  To claim, as sedeprivationists do, that he can possess the prime matter without the substantial form is to have destroyed the office. 
 
We know by divine and Catholic faith, that is, Dogma, that this is impossible. 
 
Drew
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Offline drew

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Re: Is Father Ringrose dumping the R & R crowd?
« Reply #988 on: May 07, 2018, 10:32:19 PM »
Quote from: Ladislaus on May 07, 2018, 08:24:33 PM
:facepalm:

In no way is the office itself destroyed simply because it does not become actualized in a particular individual.  Just as the office separates from the individual when he dies, since the matter is no longer capable of sustaining the form, so too the form cannot join to the matter when the matter is not properly disposed to receive it (i.e. is not a member of the Church).

Ladislaus,

If the pope were the prime matter of the papacy, then the substance of the papacy itself would be destroyed at the death of the pope just as occurs when a living being dies and the soul and body are separated.  That does not happen.  The pope himself can only be secondary matter in which accidents may subsist.  The office of the papacy has its own prime mater and substantial form independent of the person of the pope who possess the office accidentally.  Sedeprivationism postulates the dissolution of the form and matter of the office itself that can be possessed materially but not formally. This we know by divine and Catholic faith is impossible.  It is a Dogma that the papacy will continue with perpetual successors until the "consummation of the world" regardless if Ladislaus believes it or not.
 
You have made yourself the Lord of Harvest.  You have determined that the "matter (the pope) is not properly disposed to receive" the form.  So since you claim the authority to dissolve the papacy how do you plan to put it together again?  Make yourself the pope? Since you are your own rule of faith, you can just make it up as you go along.

Drew
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Offline GottmitunsAlex

Re: Is Father Ringrose dumping the R & R crowd?
« Reply #989 on: May 08, 2018, 12:48:08 AM »
Quote from: drew on May 07, 2018, 10:32:19 PM
Ladislaus,

If the pope were the prime matter of the papacy, then the substance of the papacy itself would be destroyed at the death of the pope just as occurs when a living being dies and the soul and body are separated.  That does not happen.  The pope himself can only be secondary matter in which accidents may subsist.  The office of the papacy has its own prime mater and substantial form independent of the person of the pope who possess the office accidentally.  Sedeprivationism postulates the dissolution of the form and matter of the office itself that can be possessed materially but not formally. This we know by divine and Catholic faith is impossible.  It is a Dogma that the papacy will continue with perpetual successors until the "consummation of the world" regardless if Ladislaus believes it or not.
You have made yourself the Lord of Harvest.  You have determined that the "matter (the pope) is not properly disposed to receive" the form.  So since you claim the authority to dissolve the papacy how do you plan to put it together again?  Make yourself the pope? Since you are your own rule of faith, you can just make it up as you go along.

Drew
When you have time.  Please listen. Not necessarily watch.

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