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Author Topic: Is Father Ringrose dumping the R & R crowd?  (Read 318802 times)

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Offline Stubborn

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Re: Is Father Ringrose dumping the R & R crowd?
« Reply #975 on: May 07, 2018, 11:15:43 AM »
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  • This ^^^ is disingenuous, man.  

    You've posted about your esteem for "Father" Hesse and his conclusions about the current situation.  But "Father" Hesse was trained and formed exclusively in the NO (false church).  Not only that, but he was "ordained" in the invalid new rite of ordination...
     
    And condemns his training for what it was - poor lad clings to his errors like the he was clinging to the side of a capsized rowboat in the middle of the ocean.
    "But Peter and the apostles answering, said: We ought to obey God, rather than men." - Acts 5:29

    The Highest Principle in the Church: "We are first of all under obedience to God, and only then under obedience to man" - Fr. Hesse

    Offline Stubborn

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    Re: Is Father Ringrose dumping the R & R crowd?
    « Reply #976 on: May 07, 2018, 11:59:31 AM »
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  • Yet he has absolutely "no problem" with it, because he is "more Catholic" than the Pope.
    Good heavens Cantarella, try to think why he would say such a thing as "Those that keep Dogma as the rule of faith have no problem with a heretical pope." No, it is not because he is more Catholic than the pope - although today, that is a bad analogy to use because it is actually true lol.

    He means through all the confusion and chaos of this crisis, we have the dogmas of our faith as our foundation to keep us on the road to heaven - provided we actually use them as our rule of faith.

    The sedes have a problem with the pope, not the rest of us. Far as the sedes are concerned, it is absolutely impossible for anyone to get to heaven if the conciliar popes are actually popes - what a terrible problem! 

     




    "But Peter and the apostles answering, said: We ought to obey God, rather than men." - Acts 5:29

    The Highest Principle in the Church: "We are first of all under obedience to God, and only then under obedience to man" - Fr. Hesse


    Offline Stubborn

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    Re: Is Father Ringrose dumping the R & R crowd?
    « Reply #977 on: May 07, 2018, 12:46:39 PM »
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  • :laugh1:

    Drew and Stubborn call St. Robert Bellarmine a heretic.
    No, we don't call St. Robert a heretic - you're simply side tracking the topic again. Same o same o.

    As terrible of a person as I already am, I wonder sometimes how much worse than you I would be if I had the same NO and sede theological education as you.

    At any rate, I will stick with St. Vincent and Pope Pius IX - sedeism being only less than 50 years old is not a doctrine which been held as a part of Catholic doctrine through all the generations of the Church by the vast majority of the faithful, as such, sedewhateverism is not Catholic.

    This of course means all conclusions, theories, rumors, beliefs and whatever other opinions which lead to sedesim, is not Catholic. There is absolutely nothing complicated at all about this.
    "But Peter and the apostles answering, said: We ought to obey God, rather than men." - Acts 5:29

    The Highest Principle in the Church: "We are first of all under obedience to God, and only then under obedience to man" - Fr. Hesse

    Offline Maria Auxiliadora

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    Re: Is Father Ringrose dumping the R & R crowd?
    « Reply #978 on: May 07, 2018, 01:04:47 PM »
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  • The love of God be your motivation, the will of God your guiding principle, the glory of God your goal.
    (St. Clement Mary Hofbauer)

    Offline Stubborn

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    Re: Is Father Ringrose dumping the R & R crowd?
    « Reply #979 on: May 07, 2018, 02:25:39 PM »
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  • Then again, please don't.  I can't keep reading that tortured pseudo-logic without it hurting my brain ... almost physically.
    That's what I mean - can you imagine how torturous the truth would be to me if I had gotten indoctrinated with the same sede and NO logic as you guys?
    "But Peter and the apostles answering, said: We ought to obey God, rather than men." - Acts 5:29

    The Highest Principle in the Church: "We are first of all under obedience to God, and only then under obedience to man" - Fr. Hesse


    Offline TKGS

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    Re: Is Father Ringrose dumping the R & R crowd?
    « Reply #980 on: May 07, 2018, 02:59:39 PM »
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  • After watching this topic grow over the past few weeks, I'm wondering if the title of the topic should have been:

    "Is the R&R crowd dumping Father Ringrose"

    Offline Stubborn

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    Re: Is Father Ringrose dumping the R & R crowd?
    « Reply #981 on: May 07, 2018, 04:43:42 PM »
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  • *whispering* he can't, that's why I said that. AND he knows that he can't.
    Actually, if it weren't so tragic, it'd be quite comical how you guys preach the Church teaches that the popes cannot preach error, yet that is exactly what they have done for over 50 years. Instead of realizing there is something drastically wrong with your faith and your thinking process, you stick with that false idea implanted in your brains, and take it upon yourselves to claim popes are not popes, as if that is something you can actually even know lol.

    If you actually believe it is a teaching of the Church that popes, and bishops united with the pope cannot teach errors, then you sin by not "submitting" to the pope and bishops, because the teaching of the Church is that you must submit to the pope because he can never teach error, that he will have an unfailing faith and forever be infallibly safe, lest he lead the whoooole Church into error. But that idea is not to your liking, so you find it much more to your liking to blow off that whole idea of submitting by claiming to know popes are not popes.

    The truth is, preferring instead to decide the pope is not the pope in your effort to relieve you of your imaginary obligation to submit, you have zero faith in your own idea of what you say the Church teaches. Isn't that the truth?

    If you have any faith whatsoever in your idea of the Church's teaching, then those teachings that you say you deem to be heresy and error coming from the pope and bishops, are actually authentic, true Catholic teachings - according to what you say the Church teaches regarding the pope and bishops. Isn't that the truth?

    Hence, you are guilty of grave disobedience to the popes and hierarchy and sin by claiming them to be illegitimate and also rejecting as heresy, authentic Catholic truths which have become the magisterium since they were taught by the popes and bishops, but at least you have settled the pope problem that never existed while condemning all who try to help you see how wrong you are. Bravo idiots!    

     
    "But Peter and the apostles answering, said: We ought to obey God, rather than men." - Acts 5:29

    The Highest Principle in the Church: "We are first of all under obedience to God, and only then under obedience to man" - Fr. Hesse

    Offline GottmitunsAlex

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    Re: Is Father Ringrose dumping the R & R crowd?
    « Reply #982 on: May 07, 2018, 04:48:16 PM »
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  • Actually, if it weren't so tragic, it'd be quite comical how you guys preach the Church teaches that the popes cannot preach error, yet that is exactly what they have done for over 50 years. Instead of realizing there is something drastically wrong with your faith and your thinking process, you stick with that false idea implanted in your brains, and take it upon yourselves to claim popes are not popes, as if that is something you can actually even know lol.

    If you actually believe it is a teaching of the Church that popes, and bishops united with the pope cannot teach errors, then you sin by not "submitting" to the pope and bishops, because the teaching of the Church is that you must submit to the pope because he can never teach error, that he will have an unfailing faith and forever be infallibly safe, lest he lead the whoooole Church into error. But that idea is not to your liking, so you find it much more to your liking to blow off that whole idea of submitting by claiming to know popes are not popes.

    The truth is, preferring instead to decide the pope is not the pope in your effort to relieve you of your imaginary obligation to submit, you have zero faith in your own idea of what you say the Church teaches. Isn't that the truth?

    If you have any faith whatsoever in your idea of the Church's teaching, then those teachings that you say you deem to be heresy and error coming from the pope and bishops, are actually authentic, true Catholic teachings - according to what you say the Church teaches regarding the pope and bishops. Isn't that the truth?

    Hence, you are guilty of grave disobedience to the popes and hierarchy and sin by claiming them to be illegitimate and also rejecting as heresy, authentic Catholic truths which have become the magisterium since they were taught by the popes and bishops, but at least you have settled the pope problem that never existed while condemning all who try to help you see how wrong you are. Bravo idiots!    

     
    I rest my case.
    "As the head of the Church, I cannot answer you otherwise: The Jews have not recognized Our Lord; therefore we cannot recognize the Jєωιѕн people." -Pope St. Pius X

    "No Jew adores God! Who say so?  The Son of God say so."


    Offline Stubborn

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    Re: Is Father Ringrose dumping the R & R crowd?
    « Reply #983 on: May 07, 2018, 05:00:44 PM »
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  • I rest my case.
    As well you should when that's all you've got.
    "But Peter and the apostles answering, said: We ought to obey God, rather than men." - Acts 5:29

    The Highest Principle in the Church: "We are first of all under obedience to God, and only then under obedience to man" - Fr. Hesse

    Offline drew

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    Re: Is Father Ringrose dumping the R & R crowd?
    « Reply #984 on: May 07, 2018, 07:20:27 PM »
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  • There's remote potency and proximate potency.  I myself have the potency to be Pope, but that's a remote potency.  When the Church designates a candidate to be Pope, that's proximate potency, and in fact has a degree of act in it.  He's the Pope-elect in act.  That is obviously different than my remote potency to the office.

    Basically, your statement reduces to fact that you claim that I and Jorge Bergoglio are the same when it comes to our potency to the papacy.  You don't understand that there can be degrees of potency.

    You don't understand the terms involved, so you need to stop falsely condemning that which you've made clear you do not understand.  Moments ago you spoke of the office being in potency ... demonstrating that you have absolutely no clue about what is even being discussed.

    Ladislaus,
     
    The distinction is without significance.  The question of a person being in remote or proximate potency to the papacy in fact has nothing to do with the substance of the papacy itself which is the matter in question.  You are just trying to muddy the issue to camouflage a gross fundamental error.
     
    Anything, either remote or proximate in potency to any given end does not possess that end.  Even a pope-elect, before accepting the office, is still in potency to that office.  When the office is possessed in ACT it is possessed in both its matter and form.  If it is not possessed in both its matter and form, that is, its substantial being, it is not possessed at all.
     
    Sedeprivationism postulates the separation of the form and matter of the papal office that necessarily results in a substantial change, that is, the office itself is destroyed.  We know by divine and Catholic, that is, DOGMA, that the papal office will exist with perpetual successors until the “consummation of the world.”
     
    You post is nothing but tripe.
     
    Drew

    Offline Maria Auxiliadora

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    Re: Is Father Ringrose dumping the R & R crowd?
    « Reply #985 on: May 07, 2018, 08:31:15 PM »
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  • Nonsene.  Designation by the Church disposes the matter to receive the form and puts it in proximate potency to receive the form.  Otherwise, any layman walking around is the same as the pope-elect.
    :facepalm:
    The love of God be your motivation, the will of God your guiding principle, the glory of God your goal.
    (St. Clement Mary Hofbauer)


    Offline Maria Auxiliadora

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    Re: Is Father Ringrose dumping the R & R crowd?
    « Reply #986 on: May 07, 2018, 08:35:48 PM »
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  • OK, once again, the substance of the papacy is not the matter.  Individual designated by the Church is the matter.  Office / power of the papacy is the form.  Please read St. Robert Bellarmine before posting again.

    Quote St. Robert, then. Skip the babel.
    The love of God be your motivation, the will of God your guiding principle, the glory of God your goal.
    (St. Clement Mary Hofbauer)

    Offline drew

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    Re: Is Father Ringrose dumping the R & R crowd?
    « Reply #987 on: May 07, 2018, 10:11:08 PM »
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  • OK, once again, the substance of the papacy is not the matter.  Individual designated by the Church is the matter.  Office / power of the papacy is the form.  Please read St. Robert Bellarmine before posting again.

    Ladialaus, 

    Once again it makes no difference what you are posting.  You routinely make distinctions that are not possible and ignore distinctions that are necessary. The papacy itself consists of both prime matter and its substantial form and the proposition that a person can possess the material papacy and not the formal papacy is to divine the substance of the office itself and destroy it. 
     
    The pope is not identical with the papacy. There is an ontological distinction.  The person of the pope is secondary matter and accidental to the office itself for accidents only subsist in secondary matter, not in prime matter.  When the pope dies, the office is not dissolved which would necessarily occur if the person of the pope were the prime matter of the office and there would be nothing left to appoint a successor.  The unity of the pope and the papacy is again accidental but whoever is united to the papacy possess both its prime matter and its substantial form To claim, as sedeprivationists do, that he can possess the prime matter without the substantial form is to have destroyed the office. 
     
    We know by divine and Catholic faith, that is, Dogma, that this is impossible. 
     
    Drew

    Offline drew

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    Re: Is Father Ringrose dumping the R & R crowd?
    « Reply #988 on: May 07, 2018, 10:32:19 PM »
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  • :facepalm:

    In no way is the office itself destroyed simply because it does not become actualized in a particular individual.  Just as the office separates from the individual when he dies, since the matter is no longer capable of sustaining the form, so too the form cannot join to the matter when the matter is not properly disposed to receive it (i.e. is not a member of the Church).

    Ladislaus,

    If the pope were the prime matter of the papacy, then the substance of the papacy itself would be destroyed at the death of the pope just as occurs when a living being dies and the soul and body are separated.  That does not happen.  The pope himself can only be secondary matter in which accidents may subsist.  The office of the papacy has its own prime mater and substantial form independent of the person of the pope who possess the office accidentally.  Sedeprivationism postulates the dissolution of the form and matter of the office itself that can be possessed materially but not formally. This we know by divine and Catholic faith is impossible.  It is a Dogma that the papacy will continue with perpetual successors until the "consummation of the world" regardless if Ladislaus believes it or not.
     
    You have made yourself the Lord of Harvest.  You have determined that the "matter (the pope) is not properly disposed to receive" the form.  So since you claim the authority to dissolve the papacy how do you plan to put it together again?  Make yourself the pope? Since you are your own rule of faith, you can just make it up as you go along.

    Drew

    Offline GottmitunsAlex

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    Re: Is Father Ringrose dumping the R & R crowd?
    « Reply #989 on: May 08, 2018, 12:48:08 AM »
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  • Ladislaus,

    If the pope were the prime matter of the papacy, then the substance of the papacy itself would be destroyed at the death of the pope just as occurs when a living being dies and the soul and body are separated.  That does not happen.  The pope himself can only be secondary matter in which accidents may subsist.  The office of the papacy has its own prime mater and substantial form independent of the person of the pope who possess the office accidentally.  Sedeprivationism postulates the dissolution of the form and matter of the office itself that can be possessed materially but not formally. This we know by divine and Catholic faith is impossible.  It is a Dogma that the papacy will continue with perpetual successors until the "consummation of the world" regardless if Ladislaus believes it or not.

    You have made yourself the Lord of Harvest.  You have determined that the "matter (the pope) is not properly disposed to receive" the form.  So since you claim the authority to dissolve the papacy how do you plan to put it together again?  Make yourself the pope? Since you are your own rule of faith, you can just make it up as you go along.

    Drew
    When you have time.  Please listen. Not necessarily watch.

    "As the head of the Church, I cannot answer you otherwise: The Jews have not recognized Our Lord; therefore we cannot recognize the Jєωιѕн people." -Pope St. Pius X

    "No Jew adores God! Who say so?  The Son of God say so."