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Author Topic: Is Father Ringrose dumping the R & R crowd?  (Read 318641 times)

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Offline drew

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Re: Is Father Ringrose dumping the R & R crowd?
« Reply #855 on: April 27, 2018, 03:07:09 PM »
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  • I'd tell you to try again, but I don't want to be responsible for you hurting yourself.

    That passage from Vatican I is simply the definition of Magisterium vs. Revelation.

    Revelation -- "make known new doctrine"
    Magisterium -- "religiously guard and faithfully expound the revelation"

    [Take notes here, Drew.]

    R&R ALWAYS distort this passage to mean:  "If the pope teaches some new doctrine, then we don't have to accept it."

    But that would completely undermine infallibility itself.  Infallibility is the a priori GUARANTEE that the Pope CANNOT teach such new doctrine inconsistent with Revelation under the conditions stipulated by VI.

    So, Stubborn, if Jorge Bergoglio came out tomorrow and made a solemn definition with all the notes of infallibility, using the exact language of Vatican I, and even said "I infallibly define that ..."

    and it turned out to be erroneous, how would you react?

    Would you 1) just reject this teaching or 2) would change your mind and say that it must be right or 3) would you go sedevacantist?  [those are the three possible responses]

    Ladislaus,

    Your "three possible responses" offer speculations that presuppose that God is not faithful to His word.

     
    It has been nearly sixty years since the election of Pope John XXIII who is held to have not been a pope by "reliable sources" waving the S&S manifesto.  Since that time, Neo-modernists have held complete control of the Vatican bureaucracy and there is not a single example of a modernist pope making a "solemn definition with all the notes of infallibility." Why? Why not?  And since it has not happened in the last sixty years, why do you suppose it will happen in the next sixty or the next six hundred years?  As a matter of fact, it has not happened in the last two thousand years.
     
    There exists a possibility, as Fr. Kramer said, that Pope Benedict never resigned because he has no more authority than Sedeprivationists do to divide the papal office.  Since the office cannot be divided, if Pope Benedict did not abdicate entirely, he did not abdicate at all.  What would be certain sign of this, would be Pope Francis/Bergoglio actually making a  "solemn definition with all the notes of infallibility" without the substance to bind doctrinal and/or moral error on the faithful.  But that is a bridge to which we have not arrived and may never arrive. 
     
    But this speculation is nothing more than speculation.  Jesus Christ promised to protect and preserve His Church from the pope ever using the papal office to bind an error of faith and morals on the Church. This is a Dogma of faith.  A formal object of divine and Catholic faith.  Catholics who hold Dogma as their rule of faith begin with this truth which forms a boundary limiting all speculation.  The fact that it has not happened in sixty years is evidence that the concilar popes have been and are valid popes.  If they were not, there would be nothing preventing them from doing so.
     
    S&S through their speculations, have arrived at conclusions that overturn Dogma. They have no pope, no magisterum, no rule of faith and no way to ever get them.  They have speculated themselves outside the Catholic Church because they will not hold Dogma as their rule of faith.
     
    Drew

    Offline forlorn

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    Re: Is Father Ringrose dumping the R & R crowd?
    « Reply #856 on: April 27, 2018, 03:14:38 PM »
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  • Ladislaus,

    Your "three possible responses" offer speculations that presuppose that God is not faithful to His word.

     
    It has been nearly sixty years since the election of Pope John XXIII who is held to have not been a pope by "reliable sources" waving the S&S manifesto.  Since that time, Neo-modernists have held complete control of the Vatican bureaucracy and there is not a single example of a modernist pope making a "solemn definition with all the notes of infallibility." Why? Why not?  And since it has not happened in the last sixty years, why do you suppose it will happen in the next sixty or the next six hundred years?  As a matter of fact, it has not happened in the last two thousand years.
     
    There exists a possibility, as Fr. Kramer said, that Pope Benedict never resigned because he has no more authority than Sedeprivationists do to divide the papal office.  Since the office cannot be divided, if Pope Benedict did not abdicate entirely, he did not abdicate at all.  What would be certain sign of this, would be Pope Francis/Bergoglio actually making a  "solemn definition with all the notes of infallibility" without the substance to bind doctrinal and/or moral error on the faithful.  But that is a bridge to which we have not arrived and may never arrive.  
     
    But this speculation is nothing more than speculation.  Jesus Christ promised to protect and preserve His Church from the pope ever using the papal office to bind an error of faith and morals on the Church. This is a Dogma of faith.  A formal object of divine and Catholic faith.  Catholics who hold Dogma as their rule of faith begin with this truth which forms a boundary limiting all speculation.  The fact that it has not happened in sixty years is evidence that the concilar popes have been and are valid popes.  If they were not, there would be nothing preventing them from doing so.
     
    S&S through their speculations, have arrived at conclusions that overturn Dogma. They have no pope, no magisterum, no rule of faith and no way to ever get them.  They have speculated themselves outside the Catholic Church because they will not hold Dogma as their rule of faith.
     
    Drew
    how isn't NO a received and approved rite?


    Offline Stubborn

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    Re: Is Father Ringrose dumping the R & R crowd?
    « Reply #857 on: April 27, 2018, 04:03:48 PM »
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  • :laugh1:

    You're too much of an idiot to realize that this makes YOU the moron.  It's laughable.

    This is to illustrated the stupidity of the axiom you keep throwing out there, without qualification, that if the Pope teaches something new, we don't have to accept it.

    Precisely as you answer, if a LEGITIMATE POPE were to define something that has the notes of  infallibility, it's GUARANTEED a priori to NOT BE NEW.  So what's under discussion is the limits of infallibility.

    I ask the question to shut morons like yourself up (which I know won't happen), but at least you can be publicly scorned, for your ridiculous parroting of your made-up axiom from this distortion of Vatican I.

    So top blubbering like an idiot about how "If the Pope teaches something new, we are allowed to reject it."

    Now if you want to move on to a discussion of how you interpret the limits of infallibility, that's a different issue, but stop making an idiot out of yourself by continually parroting back that stupid line.  If something has the notes of infallibility, it CANNOT be "new doctrine" and CANNOT be false.  That is guaranteed.
    You are such a faithless fool that even your questions make zero sense.

    Just you forget about asking such questions only a faithless prot would ask, and explain what the ladism idea of Universal Discipline even is. You know, that idea that ALL theologians agree is theologically certain.

    Since you falsely claim ALL theologians agree it is infallibly certain, you should be able to pop out a few dozen quotes, so lets see some quotes from pre-V1 theologians you lying Moron.
    "But Peter and the apostles answering, said: We ought to obey God, rather than men." - Acts 5:29

    The Highest Principle in the Church: "We are first of all under obedience to God, and only then under obedience to man" - Fr. Hesse

    Offline drew

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    Re: Is Father Ringrose dumping the R & R crowd?
    « Reply #858 on: April 27, 2018, 05:03:50 PM »
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  • That should tell you, that contrary to the Pastor Aternus R&R distortion of Papal infallibility, Catholics are bound to accept all Papal teachings; not only those few considered  "ex-cathedra".
    Vatican I was simply defining when the teachings of the Roman Pontiff in themselves cannot be ever reformed, not even by the Church. That is all.

    Cantarella,

    This what I have saying repeatedly. The pope is your rule of faith.  You believe that he possess a never-failing faith.  That he is infallibly infallible when he is infallible and fallibly infallible when he is not.  Your mystical insights have brought you to a church that has no pope, no magisterium, no rule of faith, no forgiveness of sins, no nothing, not even the possibility of salvation.

    That is where you are right now and apparently you have no plans to do anything about it.  Good luck.

    Drew

    Offline drew

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    Re: Is Father Ringrose dumping the R & R crowd?
    « Reply #859 on: April 27, 2018, 05:19:02 PM »
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  • See my previous post about why I put that question to Stubborn.  I grow weary of the stupid R&R axioms such as that distortion of Vatican I.  Hey, if the Pope teaches "new doctrine", say R&R, then has not right to do it and so we can reject it.  This is NOT what Vatican I meant.  If something has the notes of infallibility (the extent of which we disagree on), then it's GUARANTEED NOT TO BE "NEW DOCTRINE" a priori.  So stop it with the stupid misapplied axioms already.

    Ladislaus,

    "Misapplied axioms"?  See, this is what I told you long ago.  You don't believe in Dogma at all.  Dogmas are not "axioms." That is why Dogma is not for you an a priori necessary truth from which other necessary truths can be reliably deduced.  Your stuck with inductive approximations grounded upon your blighted observations and wild speculations.

    You and Cantarella belong to a church fashioned in your own image.  No pope, no magisterium, no rule of faith, no forgiveness of sins, not ever a chance of salvation and best of all, no Dogmas, just axioms.  As I said, there is no reason you cannot become the pope of the S&S church, and then everything you say can be fallibly infallibly "true."

    Drew


    Offline Maria Auxiliadora

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    Re: Is Father Ringrose dumping the R & R crowd?
    « Reply #860 on: April 27, 2018, 06:28:00 PM »
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  • Not for your benefit Ladislaus, for he is immune to correction, but for others that they may not be corrupted by his errors which lead to sedeprivationism and sedevacantism.
     
    Ladislaus said repeatedly that "the Magisterium is not part of divine Revelation."  He said that the Magisterium is "extrinsic" to divine revelation and formally not part of it.
     
    When confronted with this error with the evidence of dogma, he claimed that he was referring to the "act of revelation" and not the "content of revelation."  He said that the Magisterium was indeed a part of the content of revelation but not part of the act of revelation.
     
    So is the Magisterium part of the "act of revelation"? This has already been addressed in an earlier post but it is worth repeating because the consequence are the difference between heaven and hell.  Yes, the Magisterium is just as much a part of the "act of revelation" as it is a part of the "content of revelation." Now the "content of revelation" ended with the death of the last Apostle but the "act of revelation" continues.  
     
    Revelation as an act continues always, and will continue always until the last person receives this revelation.  For the act of revelation itself refers to the action verb, the infinitive, to reveal, and its verb forms, revealing, revealed, (have) revealed.  The verb is transitive meaning that it always requires a receiver of the action.  There can be no "act of revelation" without a receiver of the revelation.  
     
    "When the Pope defines a dogma," he is engaging the Magisterium. The Magisterium is the "teaching authority" of the Church, that through the pope, engages the Attributes of Infallibility and Authority that Jesus Christ endowed His Church to teach in His name without the possibility of error.  The Magisterium is a "part of the content of divine Revelation" in that it was revealed directly  and explicitly by Jesus Christ. The Magisterium is "part of the "act of revelation" whenever it makes the "content of revelation" known to anyone.  "He that heareth you, heareth me" and whenever anyone "heareth," the "act of revelation" is taking place.
     
    So Ladislaus is pretending to be making an esoteric distinction that they less intelligent readers could not appreciate.  The reason for this is that he is trying to cover up his error and in so doing, he is making a bigger error.  When the Magisterium, engaged by the pope, defines a doctrine of divine revelation it is a "part (of the act) of divine revelation" without adding to the "content of revelation."
     
    The Magisterium is the necessary but insufficient material cause and instrumental cause of dogma.  God is the formal cause and the final cause of dogma.  Dogma is divine revelation defined by the Church directly by the work of the Holy Ghost.  It is as St. Pius X said, "a truth fallen from heaven." It is immutable in both its form (the truth defined) and its matter (the words by which it is defined).  Revealed doctrine is the formal object of divine faith found in Scripture and Tradition and constitutes the remote rule of faith.  Revealed doctrine that is defined by the Magisterium is called Dogma and is called the formal object of divine and Catholic faith and constitutes the proximate rule of faith.  The "rule of faith," both remote and proximate, is always divine revelation.
     
    Proof that Ladislaus is lying is really easy to see.  He claimed that "the Magisterium is NOT part of divine revelation" because it is "extrincic" to and "formally distinct from divine revelation" so that it can judge the content of revelation.  The context of this claim requires that the Magisterium be "not part (of the content) of divine revelation" because it is the "content of revelation" that it is judging when it defines revealed doctrine. The appeal to the "act of revelation" was only done to cover up his blunder, and it is a huge blunder. But to claim that the Magisterium is "extrinsic" to the "act of revelation" is just as big a blunder.
     
    It is the Protestants who claim that the Magisterium is "not part of the content of divine revelation."  It is in fact the one unifying doctrine of all Protestant sects.  It is the schismatics who claim that the Magisterium is "not part of the act of revelation" when they deny the jurisdiction of the pope, and thus deny his teaching authority which is derived from his jurisdiction, to make God's revelation known.
     
    This is where Ladislaus' sedeprivationism leads, that is, to both heresy and schism.  It destroys the papal office by dividing its form and its matter.  Sedeprivationists claim that the jurisdiction conferred by God on the Pope directly in his office, that we know as a dogma of faith, has been removed.  By whom we may ask?  What God confers on anyone, only God can remove.  But Ladislaus wants to be "lord of the harvest" so he has no problem telling God what to do.  Unfortunately for Ladislaus, this leads only to heresy and schism.  Those who follow him in this error will find themselves in a church of their own making that is not the Catholic Church for it does have the necessary attributes which make the Church founded by Jesus Christ the Church that it is.  Their church has no pope, no magisterium, no rule of faith, and no material or instrumental means to ever correct these permanent deficiencies.  It is a church that is hopeless and can only lead to despair which is why it is not uncommon to find them returning to the Novus Ordo religion.  
     
    Drew    


    ^^^THIS^^^
    The love of God be your motivation, the will of God your guiding principle, the glory of God your goal.
    (St. Clement Mary Hofbauer)

    Offline drew

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    Re: Is Father Ringrose dumping the R & R crowd?
    « Reply #861 on: April 27, 2018, 07:47:29 PM »
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  • Drew, do you have an IQ that's even in the double-digit range?

    I was not referring to Dogmas as axioms, but various R&R principles (which are wrong and misapplied).  Please read the post I was responding to before inserting your foot in your mouth.

    And you add another calumny that I do not believe in Dogma at all.

    Ladislaus,

    I refer to Dogmas as my rule of faith upon which my R&R is grounded.  You have referred to these as "axioms."  If you have evidence of "various R&R principles which are wrong and misapplied" then be specific in your allegations.  But understand this, the evidence of "misapplications" is when the end is the overthrowing of Dogma.

    You are currently in a church without a pope, without magisterium, without dogma, without a moral sense of true obedience, and without any means to ever correct these permanent defects.  This is proof that your church is not the Catholic Church.  This is where you are right now.  But one thing you do  not lack is axioms.  You have a bucket full of axioms that have less substance than a politicians promise.  Maybe the pope is not your rule of faith.  It might be better to say, "Axioms are Ladislaus' rule of faith" because that's all you have left. 
     
    Drew

    Offline Stubborn

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    Re: Is Father Ringrose dumping the R & R crowd?
    « Reply #862 on: April 28, 2018, 04:34:00 AM »
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  • This is both tragic and laughable.  You hold your own private judgment as your proximate rule of faith and then have the nerve to call me faithless.  You don't believe that the Magisterium and Church's Universal Discipline cannot become thoroughly corrupted and harmful to faith, and you call me a faithless fool?

    Ladism: "Again, this is nothing more than the Disciplinary Infallibility of the Church ... which is held to be theologically certain by all theologians."

    I asked you to post some quotes from any of the above "all theologians" pre-V1, but you will not. The reason you will not is because you you are well aware that there are no theologians at all who ever held to such a ridiculous proposition - ergo, you are lying and by now, you surely *know* you are lying. Yet, you keep the lie alive in an effort to recruit other unknowing souls into error.

    You then ask a question which no Catholic would even ask because to do so would demonstrate a definitive unbelief in the divine law of papal succession and the dogma of the pope's infallibility, no different than most sedes.

    You falsely claim that you are not a sedevacantist, yet you doubt the validity of the popes, even referring to yourself as a "sededoubtist", meanwhile you've repeated the maxim; "a doubtful pope is no pope" many times - ergo, you are in fact a sedevacantist. Aside from yourself, who do you think you are fooling? 
    "But Peter and the apostles answering, said: We ought to obey God, rather than men." - Acts 5:29

    The Highest Principle in the Church: "We are first of all under obedience to God, and only then under obedience to man" - Fr. Hesse


    Offline Stubborn

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    Re: Is Father Ringrose dumping the R & R crowd?
    « Reply #863 on: April 28, 2018, 04:44:05 AM »
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  • And you add another calumny that I do not believe in Dogma at all.
    Let's adopt one of your own ladisms to help you understand better:

    You are a dogmadoubtist, yet a doubtful dogma is no dogma at all - ergo, you are a dogmavacantist, this relieves you from believing in dogma at all.
    "But Peter and the apostles answering, said: We ought to obey God, rather than men." - Acts 5:29

    The Highest Principle in the Church: "We are first of all under obedience to God, and only then under obedience to man" - Fr. Hesse

    Offline forlorn

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    Re: Is Father Ringrose dumping the R & R crowd?
    « Reply #864 on: April 28, 2018, 09:31:23 AM »
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  • Ladism: "Again, this is nothing more than the Disciplinary Infallibility of the Church ... which is held to be theologically certain by all theologians."

    I asked you to post some quotes from any of the above "all theologians" pre-V1, but you will not. The reason you will not is because you you are well aware that there are no theologians at all who ever held to such a ridiculous proposition - ergo, you are lying and by now, you surely *know* you are lying. Yet, you keep the lie alive in an effort to recruit other unknowing souls into error.
    Your belief that everything after V1 is somehow invalid is not "Old Catholic" heresy.

    Offline drew

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    Re: Is Father Ringrose dumping the R & R crowd?
    « Reply #865 on: April 28, 2018, 03:04:45 PM »
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  • For crying out loud, please stop wasting my time and read the actual posts.  I was referring quite specifically to the axiom articulated several times on this thread by Stubborn that if a pope teaches something new, then Catholics can never be forced to accept it.  I explained that this is a meaningless axiom because if the notes of infallibility are there, the Pope is PREVENTED by the Holy Spirit from teaching something new.  So if the notes of infallibility are present, even if prior to that time I considered the idea contrary to Tradition, I must reject my former belief and accept it as in fact NOT new and NOT contrary to Tradition.  Now, if we want to argue about the limits of infallibility, that's a different matter.  But the axiom itself is meaningless and constantly being misapplied by R&R.

    Ladislaus,


    "For crying out loud" about what?
     
    Your post has nothing to do with "axioms."  This is a matter of Dogma.  It is a Dogma that the (the content of) revelation ended with the death of the last apostle.  It is a Dogma that the subject matter of any infallible teaching is divine revelation, therefore, Dogma itself is divine revelation.  It is a Dogma "if a pope teaches something new," that is, some new doctrine that is not part of divine revelation, it cannot be accepted with divine faith and if it in any contradicts Dogma, it must be rejected.  For example, Pope John Paul II's opening encyclical, Redemptor hominis, addressed to the "church of the New Advent" in which he directly says:

    Quote
    "This inheritance (from recent pontificates) has struck deep roots in the awareness of the Church in an utterly new way, quite unknown previously, thanks to the Second Vatican Council, which John XXIII convened and opened and which was later successfully concluded and perseveringly put into effect by Paul VI, whose activity I was myself able to watch from close at hand."
    John Paul II, Redemtor Hominis

    Any teaching that is "utterly new" and "unknown previously" does not have to accepted by any of the faithful because no such teaching can ever bind that Catholic conscience because it cannot be part of divine revelation and the subject matter of Dogma, which itself is a Dogma.  It is not an axiom because it is a Dogma that, as you say, "
    the Pope is PREVENTED by the Holy Spirit from teaching something new."  Because "something new" cannot be the subject of infallible teaching, "something new" meaning anything that cannot be directly related to divine revelation or indirectly following from it as a necessary corollary. 

    Blessed Pius IX in his prologue to the declaration of the Dogma of the Immaculate Conception says:
     
    Quote
    "The Catholic Church, directed by the Holy Spirit of God, is the pillar and base of truth and has ever held as divinely revealed and as contained in the deposit of heavenly revelation this doctrine concerning the original innocence of the august Virgin — a doctrine which is so perfectly in harmony with her wonderful sanctity and preeminent dignity as Mother of God — and thus has never ceased to explain, to teach and to foster this doctrine age after age in many ways and by solemn acts."
    Bl. Pope Pius IX, Ineffabilis Deus

    The greater part of the decree, I would guess at least 80%, is just offering evidentiary proof that the doctrine was from divine revelation and therefore the proper subject matter for an infallible definition of the doctrine that would forever end any erroneous speculations on the question.  The same thing applies to Pope Pius XII, Munificentissimus Deus, on the Assumption.  The greater part of the decree is again providing proof the the doctrine in question is a part of divine revelation.  These popes accepted it as their responsibility to establish that the doctrine in question was part of divine revelation.

    St. Thomas must have considered the doctrine of the Immaculate Conception "contrary to Tradition" but once the doctrine is dogmatized, if here were alive at the time, would have accepted it as "something NOT new and NOT contrary to Tradition."  Everything here is a matter of dogma and not theoretical axioms.   
     
    There is no "axiom" involved in what you have posted.  I am not disagreeing with anything said other than this is a matter of Dogma and not "axioms" which are just human postulates that serve as presuppositions.  The R&R position is consistent with Dogma and offers no conclusions that contradict Dogma.  The same cannot be said for S&S.  In fact S&S is now, in the present tense, in a position that is incompatible with Dogma and their criticism of R&R is grounded entirely in axiomatic presuppositions that are not true, such as, the pope possessing a personal never-failing-faith and a non-infallible infallibility in his ordinary magisterium, or the axiom that a corruption of custom that is generalized is therefore "universal" and must be accepted.  The sure sign that these human presuppositions are false is that they lead to the overturning of Dogma.
     


    Drew


    Offline forlorn

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    Re: Is Father Ringrose dumping the R & R crowd?
    « Reply #866 on: April 29, 2018, 07:55:02 AM »
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  • Ladislaus,


    "For crying out loud" about what?
     
    Your post has nothing to do with "axioms."  This is a matter of Dogma.  It is a Dogma that the (the content of) revelation ended with the death of the last apostle.  It is a Dogma that the subject matter of any infallible teaching is divine revelation, therefore, Dogma itself is divine revelation.  It is a Dogma "if a pope teaches something new," that is, some new doctrine that is not part of divine revelation, it cannot be accepted with divine faith and if it in any contradicts Dogma, it must be rejected.  For example, Pope John Paul II's opening encyclical, Redemptor hominis, addressed to the "church of the New Advent" in which he directly says
    Wrong. The Church defining dogma is not divine revelation. All dogma is divinely revealed in that it all comes from what was divinely revealed to the Apostles, but divine revelation ended with the death of the last Apostle. Basic Church teaching that you previously denied and attacked Ladislaus over due to your poor grasp on the English language, only to turn around now and contradict yourself. 

    Offline cathman7

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    Re: Is Father Ringrose dumping the R & R crowd?
    « Reply #867 on: April 29, 2018, 10:17:51 AM »
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  • All this time spent on abstruse theological topics, what are we doing personally and collectively to rebuild the Catholic social order? 

    Offline drew

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    Re: Is Father Ringrose dumping the R & R crowd?
    « Reply #868 on: April 29, 2018, 03:55:03 PM »
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  • Yes, it's almost physically painful to just read the tortured logic and contradiction in Drew's posts.  And yet he dismisses a theologian of +Guerard des Lauriers' qualifications and learning with the waive of his hand as a simpleton who doesn't know the basics regarding matter and form (Philosophy 101).  I'm not sure how much more I can take of this guy.  I'm done responding directly to him.

    Ladislaus,
     
    How appropriate Ladislaus that you should end your posting endorsing Forlorn's claim that "dogma is not divine revelation," and at the same time repeating your belief that no matter what des Lauriers may say, he is your rule of faith even when he builds a theological speculation upon a philosophical impossibility that overturns Dogma.  Since for you, "dogma is not divine revelation," you have no problem disregarding it as a limitation to theological misadventures.
     
    You are phony and Forlorn is appropriately monikered.  But, never forget ever, that you are in a church of your own making, without pope, without magisterium, without dogma, without moral compass, without the possibility of salvation.  And you have no material or instrumental means to ever correct any of these deficiencies and more.  You have no excuse because the signs are manifestly self-evident.
     
    Drew

    Offline drew

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    Re: Is Father Ringrose dumping the R & R crowd?
    « Reply #869 on: April 29, 2018, 04:12:38 PM »
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  • All this time spent on abstruse theological topics, what are we doing personally and collectively to rebuild the Catholic social order?

    Obscurus,

    These are not "abstruse theological topics."  The consequences are eternal salvation.  Those that keep dogma as there rule of faith have the possibility of salvation.  Those who do not, are by definition, heretics.
     
    The rebuilding of Catholic social order can only happen by those working together who keep the faith.  S&S do not.  They have reached conclusions that are incompatible with membership in the Catholic Church.  The church they have created is manifestly lacking essential necessary attributes of the Catholic Church that make the her visible and knowable; that make her what she is.  What is worse is that not only are the missing these necessary attributes, they have no possible material or instrumental means to ever recover them.  The implications of this are grave because it implies a complacency in sin which makes repentance impossible.

    The only weapon a faithful Catholic possess against the abuse of authority is truth.  That is, Dogma.  Those that keep Dogma as their rule of faith are the only ones who can ever contribute in the rebuilding of the Church and, from the Church, to the rebuilding of Catholic social order.

    Drew