Author Topic: Is Father Ringrose dumping the R & R crowd? (Read 442347 times)

Maria Auxiliadora · « **Reply #740 on:** April 23, 2018, 05:18:45 AM »

Thank you, Sean Johnson, for posting this article. Leave it to sedevacantes to deceive. And Ladislaus, all you can do is insult the authors, your MO.

WHY FR. KRAMER AND THE SEDEVACANTISTS
MISUNDERSTAND BELLARMINE

      In True of False Pope?, we demonstrate that the Sedevacantists have entirely misinterpreted Bellarmine’s opinion concerning the loss of office for a heretical Pope. As we have noted in recent feature articles, their erroneous interpretation of the famous Fourth and Fifth Opinions is evident by reading what Bellarmine wrote just a few paragraphs earlier (in the Second and Third Opinions). But they would not know this, because these additional paragraphs were never translated and posted online, which is where almost all the Sedevacantists get their information. Their handlers conveniently translated only those portions of Bellarmine which they were able to “interpret” to “support” their position.
       The portion they have translated consists of Bellarmine’s attempted refutation of Cajetan’s opinion on how a Pope loses his office (Fourth Opinion), and Bellarmine’s own opinion (the Fifth Opinion). By providing these opinions alone, and by not explaining (or not knowing) what Cajetan’s position entailed (and hence what Bellarmine was objecting to), the priests and bishops of the Sedevacantist sect were able to convince unsuspecting souls that Bellarmine’s own opinion supported their Sedevacantist position, when, in reality, it does not. By this deceitful tactic, these Sedevacantist clergy were able to lead countless souls out of the Church and into their heretical sects.
       The Novus Ordo trained priest, Fr, Paul Leonard Kramer, has embraced this erroneous interpretation of Bellarmine, hook, line and sinker, and has been causing further confusion by spreading it to a new group of Catholics via is Facebook Page. As we will show in this article, John of St. Thomas, who is one of the main commentators on the debate between Cajetan and Bellarmine, directly refutes the Sedevacantists’ false interpretation of Bellarmine, and confirms exactly what we have been saying for years. This is because John of St. Thomas knew Cajetan’s opinion well, and hence also knew what Bellarmine was objecting to. Understanding Cajetan’s opinion (which almost no Sedevacantist does, since his teaching is found nowhere on the Sedevacantist websites) is the key to understanding what Bellarmine meant.

For the whole article:
http://www.trueorfalsepope.com/p/whyfr.html

Stubborn · « **Reply #741 on:** April 23, 2018, 05:27:18 AM »

Quote from: Cantarella on April 22, 2018, 05:01:24 PM

5) The Bishops around the world in union with the Pope do not need a gathering of a General Council in order to teach infallibly. These teachings are free from heretical error, also and Catholics must give assent.

This doctrine is strictly Novus Ordo Cantarella. This NO doctrine you keep referencing entirely ignores that universality in time is also necessary for a doctrine to be guaranteed infallible. V1 decreed that “all those things are to be believed as found in scripture and tradition...”

All the "Bishops around the world in union with the Pope" teach the new and novel teachings of V2, a new and novel teaching, by definition, cannot be “found in tradition.” A novel teaching is a teaching that has not been taught in all times and therefore lacks universality, therefore is not infallible.

Why on earth do you keep promoting this NO doctrine when you do not even believe it yourself?

Do you realize that if you actually believed it was a teaching of the Church, that you and all the rest of us would be bound to be in league with all those people who actually *do* believe the NO doctrine you keep referencing, and who actually *do* give their assent to the V2 teachings? - the reason they wrongfully give their assent is because unlike you, they actually they believe that "These teachings are free from heretical error and Catholics must give assent."?

You are very confused Cantarella, you are in a terrible situation with your loss of faith in everything - even the NO doctrine you keep referencing.

Stubborn · « **Reply #742 on:** April 23, 2018, 05:59:29 AM »

Cantarella, this is the dogma as quoted directly from V1:

Quote

Wherefore, by divine and catholic faith all those things are to be believed, which are contained in the word of God as found in scripture and tradition, and which are proposed by the church as matters to be believed as divinely revealed, whether by her solemn judgment or in her ordinary and universal magisterium.

This is that same dogma, only in this quote, I replaced the words "in her ordinary and universal magisterium", with Pope Pius IX's explanation of what the ordinary and universal magisterium is, as he taught it from Tuas Libenter. The dogma's meaning has not been changed.

Quote

Wherefore, by divine and catholic faith all those things are to be believed, which are contained in the word of God as found in scripture and tradition, and which are proposed by the church as matters to be believed as divinely revealed, whether by her solemn judgment or "all that has been handed down as divinely revealed by the ordinary teaching authority of the entire Church spread over the whole world. (...and which, for this reason, Catholic theologians, with a universal and constant consent, regard as being of the faith.")

The only commonality the true dogma has with the false NO doctrine you keep referencing, are the words, "spread over the whole world".

In the false NO doctrine you constantly reference as if it is a true teaching of the Church, it is the bishops who are infallible - whether spread over the whole world, or not, just as long as they're in union with the pope. Again, this is a false teaching, do not believe it! - and this false teaching has proven to be the cause of the loss of faith of billions.

In the true dogma, it is the teachings that are infallible, provided those teachings have been taught by the Church always and everywhere. This is the same as saying: "in her ordinary and universal magisterium."

kiwiboy · « **Reply #743 on:** April 23, 2018, 03:41:15 PM »

Quote from: Mr G on April 20, 2018, 11:20:56 AM

To bring things back on topic, does Fr. Ringrose believe in Flat Earth? ;D :o ???

We're working on it.....

Pax Vobis · « **Reply #744 on:** April 23, 2018, 04:57:48 PM »

Quote

These types of authorities have no effect on Drew

Coming from the man who disagrees with Cantarella that everything from a council is infallible, it’s the height of contadiction for you to declare Drew is in the wrong, when you would be as well.

CathInfo.com

Author Topic: Is Father Ringrose dumping the R & R crowd? (Read 442347 times)

Maria Auxiliadora

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Stubborn

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Stubborn

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kiwiboy

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Pax Vobis

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