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Author Topic: Is Father Ringrose dumping the R & R crowd?  (Read 440555 times)

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Re: Is Father Ringrose dumping the R & R crowd?
« Reply #75 on: March 11, 2018, 11:02:13 PM »
Actually, they made a deal with the Vatican and explained in their letter in great detail how they made that deal because they no longer wanted to question whether the vatican 2 church had any authority and were afraid that if they continued that they would have to openly accept sedevacantism. They even explain how they wrote to Bishop Fellay and explained the same.
http://brasildogmadafe.blogspot.com.br/p/docuмento-perdido-dos-padres-de-campos.html
Yes, I am aware of what they did. It is sad. Bishop Rifan would eventually begin to concelebrate the New Mass. Again, they didn't quite understand the Crisis being isolated in their area of Brazil. 

Re: Is Father Ringrose dumping the R & R crowd?
« Reply #76 on: March 11, 2018, 11:04:08 PM »
Correct, Canterella, but what are the teachings of the magisterium but doctrine and the catechism?  And what is doctrine and the catechism but the re-teaching of “what has always been taught” for 1,900 years.  Thus, the magisterium’s job is to safeguard and teach doctrine, which is the rule of faith.  

If the current magisterium/hierarchy fails to do their job, then Catholics must turn to historical, orthodox teachings (ie doctors of the church and previous saintly popes) to help them learn the faith, which is exactly what trads have done.
  
The question of the status of the non-orthodox magisterium is largely academic, as it's none of our jobs to come to any conclusions about their future or punishments, etc.  Our job is to know, love and serve God, and we have 1,900 yrs of consistent Church Teaching on how to do this.  Everything else, including the status of the pope, is largely a distraction - especially for we laity.  

As +W has been pointing out the past 3 weeks in his newsletters, our families are in crisis, young trads are leaving Church altogether, families are being ripped apart by immorality and many trad priests/bishops are STILL (after 20+ years?!) spending their time arguing about the status of the pope?  REALLY?  Is this the most pressing matter of the day?  Hardly.  The battle for souls has moved from the streets into the home and many priests have their heads stuck in theology books - too busy to notice and too worried about which “group” (ie sspx vs sede) is “winning”.  What an insane world we live in.  

Not to distract too much from the original intent of this thread but I think you are on to something. We are losing the cultural battle. At some point, these matters become too abstract and academic as fascinating as they may be for our curious minds.

The other day, I wanted to search a bit about what the youth were 
listening to and was completely shocked. It was a thousand times worse than what I unfortunately was exposed to growing up. Of course, we may say "my son or daughter doesn't listen to this" but  I wonder.


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Re: Is Father Ringrose dumping the R & R crowd?
« Reply #77 on: March 12, 2018, 09:09:21 AM »
Lad, you're putting words into Drew's mouth; he's not a protestant and many sedes DO act as if the pope is the rule of their faith, just like novus ordo catholics put the papacy on a pedastal.  You hear the phrase 'R&R' and you immediately go into attack mode and put blinders on...yet I ask, one could define Fr Ringrose and Chazal's arguments as "recognizing" their material authority, while "resisting" their non-existent spiritual authority.  Potatoe, potato.  Don't let the terms overshadow the underlying arguments.

Re: Is Father Ringrose dumping the R & R crowd?
« Reply #78 on: March 12, 2018, 09:49:23 AM »
I maintain my position of position of positive doubt regarding post-concliar Popes and make no pronouncement on the See of Peter ever at all.

That said, what is inherently ABSURB is accepting Bergoglio as your True Spiritual Leader. This would be no different than accepting the Dali Lama as your spiritual leader and saying you are Catholic at this point. A future conclave may even make such a situation a reality for you. Then where would you stand? Any non-Catholic can be the legitimate successor of St. Peter or just a modernist one? Who draws that line? Do you see where this is going. The Masons want nothing more than that Traditionalist accept any non-Catholic as their spiritual leader because it serves their purpose of consolidating all “religions” under the New one world religion. It’s coming. And dogmatic sedeplenist are pointing the way.

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Re: Is Father Ringrose dumping the R & R crowd?
« Reply #79 on: March 12, 2018, 11:01:04 AM »
Here's the issue that is not being distinguished - the time factor.  For example, how many councils have we had in the past and how many doctrines have they defined?  (at least 20 councils).  And how many Doctors of the Church and saints and other holy people, including popes, have written and explained such doctrines?  Hundreds.  So, the previous magisterium's of the Church have already "spoken" and already explained all that's needed to be said concerning most of these doctrines.  For example, the doctrine of Christ having 2 natures - divine and human.  This has been around and explained for so long that we catholics in the 19th/20th/21st centuries don't need it re-explained.  It's pretty basic.

So, such doctrines are settled.  The current magisterium isn't spending time re-explaining these types of topics because the Church has had 17 centuries to do so.  So, to say that the current magisterium is the 'rule' of faith, is not accurate for this topic.  It might be accurate for issues which are CURRENTLY BEING ATTACKED or which need to be clarified, but for older doctrines, we look to the past for explanations.  We can do this because the Church's teachings are CONSISTENT and UNIVERSAL.  Therefore, what She said 16-17 centuries ago concerning Our Lord's Divine nature was as accurate then as it is now.

The point is, to say that the current magisterium is the 'rule' of faith is only partially correct.  The magisteriums of the past (i.e. previously defined doctrine/dogma and the related commentary) is part of the 'rule' of faith as well, because Church Teaching is eternal, no matter what time period it came from.  So the rule of faith is THE MAGISTERIUM (past and present) because ultimately what they teach is ETERNAL TRUTH, which is timeless.

So, to Drew's point, whether or not the current pope strays from the Faith is irrelevent to our Faith because the current magisterium is only a small part of The UNIVERSAL magisterium, which is the constant teaching of the faith over 2,000 centuries.  This UNVERSAL magisterium is what Drew means when he says 'doctrine'.