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Author Topic: Is Father Ringrose dumping the R & R crowd?  (Read 442526 times)

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Offline drew

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Re: Is Father Ringrose dumping the R & R crowd?
« Reply #910 on: May 02, 2018, 04:55:07 PM »
It is good that you bring up the "local, regional, or national Councils". Do you know what is it precisely which make these Councils passing from "fallible" to infallible, just as the General Councils?

It is the confirmation of the Holy See. Again, the Papal Approbation.




Cantarella,

I agree but do not understand your point.

My point in the initial post is that #29 article against the errors of Luther is not a dogma.  It refers to councils indiscriminately and it refers to their acts indiscriminately.  Luther rejected the authority of all councils without exception.  I do not diminish the importance of local, regional or national councils but some have contained errors in the past.  Nothing proposed by these councils is approved until it is approved by the pope.  It was a regional council that was approved by the Pope that I referenced earlier in this thread that used the term dogma and "rule of faith" as synonyms.

Drew

Offline Stubborn

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Re: Is Father Ringrose dumping the R & R crowd?
« Reply #911 on: May 03, 2018, 04:21:09 AM »
You have your wife, Pax Vobis, and Stubborn each following you around, up - thumbing every single one of your posts while carelessly down-thumbing mine, yet no one of you are actually reading anything that has been posted.

Did you all miss the part of the visual, which clearly indicates that General Councils are infallible? And no, it is not only when they define canons and anathemas. Lyons I did not define anything. What, do you think that the Holy Ghost only makes an entrance exclusively in the exact time of proposing such dogmatic definitions, and then leaves right after? Absurd.

Furthermore, your allegation is not only that a General Council ratified by the Pope is NOT infallible merely; but that it has been actually harmful, teaching contra-verdades, leading souls to Hell. Even more absurd.
The dogma of the Assumption is infallible, the dogma of the Immaculate Conception is infallible, the EENS dogma is infallible, the dogma that we must be subject to the pope in order to get to heaven is infallible, there is no dogma that general councils are infallible.  

General councils were not held nor were they foretold during the lives of the Apostles and are not found in Scripture, as such, General Councils are not in the Deposit of Faith, are not dogma and are not automatically infallible. Seems like it should be blatantly obvious that V2 itself should more than suffice to prove that all General Councils are most certainly not automatically infallible.  

If all councils are infallible as you keep insisting, and if you actually believed what you keep insisting, which you don't, but if you did, then regardless of your, mine or anyone's opinion in the matter, we would be bound under pain of sin to forsake the true faith for the new faith just the same as all the other NOers did who actually believe that which you keep insisting.



 


Re: Is Father Ringrose dumping the R & R crowd?
« Reply #912 on: May 03, 2018, 09:18:04 AM »
It all comes down to whether or not you believe that Vatican II was a valid council or some thing else, masquerading as a council.
Voluminous discussions and quoting thousands of texts and saints are only a means of nibbling around the issue. Was it a valid legitimate council?

Offline Meg

Re: Is Father Ringrose dumping the R & R crowd?
« Reply #913 on: May 03, 2018, 09:42:51 AM »
You have your wife, Pax Vobis, and Stubborn each following you around, up - thumbing every single one of your posts while carelessly down-thumbing mine, yet no one of you are actually reading anything that has been posted.

Did you all miss the part of the visual, which clearly indicates that General Councils are infallible? And no, it is not only when they define canons and anathemas. Lyons I did not define anything. What, do you think that the Holy Ghost only makes an entrance exclusively in the exact time of proposing such dogmatic definitions, and then leaves right after? Absurd.

Furthermore, your allegation is not only that a General Council ratified by the Pope is NOT infallible merely; but that it has been actually harmful, teaching contra-verdades, leading souls to Hell. Even more absurd.

Do you then believe that the Vatican ll Council is infallible?

Offline Meg

Re: Is Father Ringrose dumping the R & R crowd?
« Reply #914 on: May 03, 2018, 10:01:33 AM »
If all councils are infallible as you keep insisting, and if you actually believed what you keep insisting, which you don't, but if you did, then regardless of your, mine or anyone's opinion in the matter, we would be bound under pain of sin to forsake the true faith for the new faith just the same as all the other NOers did who actually believe that which you keep insisting.

The above makes sense. If Vatican ll was an infallible Council, then why don't the sedes accept it as infallible and follow what it taught?

The sedes tend to focus on what non-sedes believe. Maybe the focus should be on what THEY actually believe for a change.