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Author Topic: Is Father Ringrose dumping the R & R crowd?  (Read 440429 times)

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Offline Pax Vobis

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Re: Is Father Ringrose dumping the R & R crowd?
« Reply #80 on: March 12, 2018, 11:48:22 AM »
Except that catholics, when they accept dogma must also accept the commentary/explanation of it, whereas protestants just accept the the dogma (which they believe they can privately interpret).  I see what you mean, that people could infer that the commentary doesn't matter, if they just hear the word 'dogma' but I don't see that is what Drew is arguing. 
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Offline Pax Vobis

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Re: Is Father Ringrose dumping the R & R crowd?
« Reply #81 on: March 12, 2018, 12:14:55 PM »
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The  Magisterium (Pope & Episcopate) is needed for each passing generation.
No one is saying they aren't needed.  We're debating to what level.  The point Drew is trying to make is that one's faith is MORE DEPENDENT on dogma (which has already been explained) than on the current hierarchy.  As the past 50 years have shown - wherein we've had NO leadership and NO reliance on the magisterium, since they are quasi-heretical - traditional catholics have survived quite easily, because we have 2,000 yrs of orthodox magisterium's to fall back on.  This is the beauty of God's eternal truth - that it does not change, which is why modernists had to introduce the idea of a 'living' magisterium - to get people to stop looking at the past and to get them to think that the 'current' magisterium is all that matters.  This is heresy pure and simple.
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Offline Pax Vobis

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Re: Is Father Ringrose dumping the R & R crowd?
« Reply #82 on: March 12, 2018, 01:08:19 PM »
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St. Augustine famously taught that he wouldn't even believe the Scriptures themselves if the Church didn't propose them to him for belief.
Right, but again, you must differentiate between the current and the UNIVERSAL magisterium.  The Church has told us that Scripture must be believed...she told us LONG AGO.  So, no matter what happens with Francis' faith, the belief in Scripture doesn't change.  So, as Drew would classify it, this is a defined dogma/Truth which stands on its own, regardless of what's going on TODAY in rome.
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Offline Pax Vobis

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Re: Is Father Ringrose dumping the R & R crowd?
« Reply #83 on: March 12, 2018, 01:52:19 PM »
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He was arguing that the Magisterium is not the proximate rule of faith but, rather, dogma itself.
As I understand it, he was classifying the PAST magisterium's teachings as dogma, since they aren't alive anymore and their teachings are 'set in stone'.  All things in the present are classified as the magisterium.  This way, one does not have to use the term 'universal'.
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Offline Pax Vobis

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Re: Is Father Ringrose dumping the R & R crowd?
« Reply #84 on: March 12, 2018, 03:10:19 PM »
Well, the term 'magisterium' is less than 200 years old, so there's not a super clear understanding/terminology history behind it.  And modernism has further muddied the waters.
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