Send CathInfo's owner Matthew a gift from his Amazon wish list:
https://www.amazon.com/hz/wishlist/ls/25M2B8RERL1UO

« previous next »
Pages: 1 ... 132 133 [134] 135 136 ... 228

Author Topic: Is Father Ringrose dumping the R & R crowd?  (Read 443125 times)

0 Members and 1 Guest are viewing this topic.

Online Pax Vobis

  • Supporter
Re: Is Father Ringrose dumping the R & R crowd?
« Reply #665 on: April 18, 2018, 04:53:37 PM »

Quote
Incorrect. Anything that is taught by all the Bishops and the Pope in unity is infallible. It does not have to always have been taught. 
So you’re saying that the pope/bishops can teach something new?  How is this possible?  They can teach a doctrine different from what Christ handed down, or different from Scripture?  OF COURSE NOT!

This is where many people’s specific/modernist view of the magisterium is wrong.  You want to argue that the current magisterium is free from error - always.  Yet, you also want to say that it must jive with Tradition/Scripture.  IT CANT BE BOTH.  So what’s the solution?

As has been pointed out numerous times on this thread, the solution is that 1) the current magisterium is infallible when they teach SOLEMNLY, or 2) when they teach non-solemnly, yet infallibly, and they are RE-AFFIRMING TRADITION.  

The third option is they teach non-solemnly, and non-infallibly and therefore can err.  Like at V2.  

There are no new truths, no new doctrine, no new cathechism.  We must believe today the SAME EXACT TRUTHS as Christians of the 1st century.  If the current hierarchy isn’t RE-TEACHING what has always been taught, as St Paul said “They are anathema!”
Logged

Online Pax Vobis

  • Supporter
Re: Is Father Ringrose dumping the R & R crowd?
« Reply #666 on: April 18, 2018, 05:38:05 PM »
But your acknowledgment/recognition of this fact (assuming it can be proven) means nothing.  What you or I believe, as we are laymen, means nothing.  The Church was built on Christ/pope.  When we die, the Church will continue.  It exists outside of us and whatever we “acknowledge” is irrelevant.  How can our opinion matter, when it is Christ’s Church?

How has your acknowledgement of your theory affected Rome?  How has it affected your local diocese?  It hasn’t affected them at all, because our vote doesn’t count...
Logged

Offline forlorn

Re: Is Father Ringrose dumping the R & R crowd?
« Reply #667 on: April 18, 2018, 05:44:08 PM »
Quote from: Pax Vobis on April 18, 2018, 04:53:37 PM
So you’re saying that the pope/bishops can teach something new?  How is this possible?  They can teach a doctrine different from what Christ handed down, or different from Scripture?  OF COURSE NOT!

This is where many people’s specific/modernist view of the magisterium is wrong.  You want to argue that the current magisterium is free from error - always.  Yet, you also want to say that it must jive with Tradition/Scripture.  IT CANT BE BOTH.  So what’s the solution?

As has been pointed out numerous times on this thread, the solution is that 1) the current magisterium is infallible when they teach SOLEMNLY, or 2) when they teach non-solemnly, yet infallibly, and they are RE-AFFIRMING TRADITION.  

The third option is they teach non-solemnly, and non-infallibly and therefore can err.  Like at V2.  

There are no new truths, no new doctrine, no new cathechism.  We must believe today the SAME EXACT TRUTHS as Christians of the 1st century.  If the current hierarchy isn’t RE-TEACHING what has always been taught, as St Paul said “They are anathema!”
By your warped logic, any dogma or doctrine defined after the 1st Century is heresy. No, new teachings and doctrines do not in any way contradict the old. They invent nothing, they merely make clear the correct interpretations of beliefs that had previously been contested and undefined by the Church. There are many cases in history where the Saints held beliefs that would be heretical today but were not then, as the doctrine had not been defined yet. Nothing new is created, merely old contested issues are clarified and made clear for all the faithful to believe, resolving the debate around them.  

Similarly, new teachings by the universal ordinary Magisterium does not mean that they are inventing anything or contradicting the old. They CANNOT, as the universal ordinary Magisterium is infallible. THAT is traditional Catholic teaching for you. If you can prove the universal ordinary Magisterium to be teaching heresy, then it is clear that it CANNOT be the real Church hierarchy. As it is ancient and clear Church teaching that it is infallible.

Quote
There are no new truths, no new doctrine, no new cathechism.  We must believe today the SAME EXACT TRUTHS as Christians of the 1st century.  If the current hierarchy isn’t RE-TEACHING what has always been taught, as St Paul said “They are anathema!”
This is just blatantly false. The Assumption of Mary was dogmatically defined in 1950 you tool. And there's a new cathechism every couple of decades. I never said the truth changes, but what we know and are required to believe does. As I said before, many dogma we hold as infallibly defined now were under debate for much of Church history with even Saints disagreeing with what the Church would later conclude was the truth. To deny that the Church has expanded its teachings is just to deny history plain and simple. It is to deny teachings such as the Assumption of Mary. It is a denial of reason and faith. 
Logged

Offline forlorn

Re: Is Father Ringrose dumping the R & R crowd?
« Reply #668 on: April 18, 2018, 05:45:02 PM »
Quote from: Pax Vobis on April 18, 2018, 05:38:05 PM
But your acknowledgment/recognition of this fact (assuming it can be proven) means nothing.  What you or I believe, as we are laymen, means nothing.  The Church was built on Christ/pope.  When we die, the Church will continue.  It exists outside of us and whatever we “acknowledge” is irrelevant.  How can our opinion matter, when it is Christ’s Church?

How has your acknowledgement of your theory affected Rome?  How has it affected your local diocese?  It hasn’t affected them at all, because our vote doesn’t count...
Freemasons cannot be Popes. 
Logged

Offline drew

  • Supporter
Re: Is Father Ringrose dumping the R & R crowd?
« Reply #669 on: April 18, 2018, 06:59:55 PM »
Quote from: Cantarella on April 18, 2018, 04:13:54 PM
Care to explain how is it that the Novus Ordo Mass is not an "approved and received" rite when we see the "Popes" offering the Sacrifice of the Mass daily and publicly with it?

To avoid this Tridentine Anathema...

How can you say that the Church does not use the Novus Ordo rite?

How can you say that Paul VI did not approve it?

Faith does not contradict reason.

Cantarella,

God takes His revealed truth seriously and He expects everyone else to do so as well.  The faithful are called the "faithful" because they are faithful to believe what God has revealed on the authority of God.  What God has revealed is found in Scripture and Tradition.  This is called the remote rule of faith and the proximate rule of faith is that part of Scripture and Tradition that has been formally defined by the Church's Magisterium that we call Dogma.  Since Dogma is proximate in time to Scripture and Tradition, it is called the proximate rule of faith.  Dogma is a two edged sword.  For the faithful it makes God's revelation so explicit that there can remain no doubt whatsoever regarding what God wants us to believe, so Dogma is called, "the formal object of divine and Catholic faith.  But as a two edged sword it cuts both ways. Those who reject any Dogma suffer the direct condemnation by God through his Church.  That is what "anathema" means: 'Go to Hell'. Sedevacantists and sedeprivationists should reflect upon this most seriously because both these theories lead directly to the denial of Catholic Dogma.

The "received and approved" rites of the Catholic Church are the subject of Dogma. From the book, ѕυιcιdє in Altering the Faith in the Liturgy attributed to Fr. Paul Kramer (N.B.: For the record, Fr. Kramer has admitted that he is not the actual author of many parts of the books attributed to him, therefore, if any further explanation of this quote is wanted, he may not be the person to ask.")


Quote
The Tridentine Profession of Faith of Pope Pius IV, Iniunctum Nobis, prescribes adherence to the “received and approved rites of the Catholic Church used in the solemn administration of the sacraments.”  The “received and approved rites” are the rites established by custom, and hence the Council of Trent refers to them as the “received and approved rites of the Catholic Church customarily used in the solemn administration of the sacraments (Sess. VII, can XIII).  Adherence to the customary rites received and approved by the Church is an infallible defined doctrine: The Council of Florence defined that “priests…. must confect the body of the Lord, each one according to the custom of his Church” (Decretum pro Graecis), and therefore the Council of Trent solemnly condemned as heresy the proposition that “ the received and approved rites of the Catholic Church customarily used in the solemn administration of the sacraments may be changed into other new rites by any ecclesiastical pastor whosoever.”  
Fr. Paul Kramer, The ѕυιcιdє of Altering the Faith in the Liturgy

This "Tridentine anathema" is leveled at anyone who denies the Dogma in word or deed. Pope Paul VI had no authority even as pope to alter the "received and approved" rites. Paul VI was a heretic which, for those who hold Dogma as the rule of faith, it is someone who denies a Dogma.  Those who do not hold Dogma as the rule of faith cannot call anyone a heretic because they have no standard by which to judge.  You and Ladislaus hold the "Magisterium as the rule of faith" which is the same as saying the pope is your rule of faith since it is the pope who hold the keys to the Magisterium.  You believe whatever the "magisterium" says at any particular time (sometimes).  So by what right do you have to complain about the Novus Ordo?  I can reject it because I keep the Dogmas of the Catholic Church. You do not.

And because I have no problem in understanding that the "received and approved" rites are not, and never could be, the subject of mere Church discipline, or as you and your buddy like to believe, mere ecclesiastical faith, I know that there is no "magisterial" power on earth that can overturn revealed Truth, i.e.: Dogma.  Faithful Catholics do not participate in the Novus Ordo and those who do are at least guilty of material heresy.  It is the form of worship for a Novus Ordo religion that can be compared analogously to the countless times in the Old Testament where those "sitting on the chair of Moses" lead and/or participated in idolatrous worship for the time of Moses himself to the time of the Maccabees.  

"Faith does not contradict reason." I have no problem accusing the conciliar popes of heresy because I adhere to Dogma as my rule of faith.  God has kept His promise to prevent these heretics from using the Magisterium, that is, the 'teaching authority' of the Church grounded upon the Church's Attributes of Authority and Infallibility to bind the faithful to doctrinal and/or moral error over the last 50 years.  God is faithful even when we are not.  All you are called upon to do is keep His revealed Truth.  The problem is His revealed Truth is not good enough for you. You want to be the lord of the harvest.  Where God is patient, you are not. I am telling you most seriously, those who make themselves "lord of the harvest" will find themselves bundled with the chaff.

Drew




Logged
Pages: 1 ... 132 133 [134] 135 136 ... 228
« previous next »