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Author Topic: Is Father Ringrose dumping the R & R crowd?  (Read 515964 times)

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Offline Pax Vobis

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Re: Is Father Ringrose dumping the R & R crowd?
« Reply #330 on: March 30, 2018, 06:44:46 PM »
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What if there were errors in the Council of Trent or Vatican I Council present in the "fallible" narrative"?
Do you have the docuмents of Trent memorized?  How about all the other ecuмenical councils - can you recite them all by heart?  Have you even READ them all, word for word?  Because If you think that every word is infallible, then by golly, you’d better be familiar with every dot and tittle.  

And if they are all infallible, why are schools not teaching them?  Why aren’t they in the catechism?  And I mean every word?  We HAVE to believe EVERY WORD under PAIN OF SIN, right?  (That’s what infallibility means, don’t you know?) According to your logic, we do have to know EVERY WORD...which is nonsense.  

Only those decrees which must be known with certainty of faith, under pain of sin, are infallible.  Which amounts to a few sentences for each dogma.  This is why a catechism can even exist - because dogmas are clear, concise teachings of the faith, not 1,000 word essays of theological reasons and facts.  

Offline Pax Vobis

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Re: Is Father Ringrose dumping the R & R crowd?
« Reply #331 on: March 31, 2018, 08:21:41 AM »

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Second, the Fathers are clear that those who refuse to accept the definitions of faith made by a general council are to be excluded from the Church as heretics.
You gloss over this term like it has no meaning.  


Offline Pax Vobis

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Re: Is Father Ringrose dumping the R & R crowd?
« Reply #332 on: March 31, 2018, 08:23:28 AM »

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Except that Pax insisted that V2 taught blatant heresy.
I said it erred.  I said it had contradictions. 

Offline Pax Vobis

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Re: Is Father Ringrose dumping the R & R crowd?
« Reply #333 on: March 31, 2018, 08:25:41 AM »

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You're conflating the term de fide with infallibility
Infallibility is only used for de fide definitions. That’s it purpose. 

Offline Pax Vobis

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Re: Is Father Ringrose dumping the R & R crowd?
« Reply #334 on: March 31, 2018, 08:32:10 AM »
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Bellarmine reasons that if the pope is infallible in judging matters of faith or morals, then his judgment of a council’s decision cannot be in error, no matter how small the particular council.
You continue to ignore the fact that V2 did not have any judgements.  Therefore it’s not protected by infallibility.  It did not have any dogmatic decrees, canons, judgements or teachings.  Therefore, infallibility IS NOT PART OF THE COUNCIL.  This is backed up by the quotes from Paul VI himself, the council fathers, theologians present and theologians not present.  

You have an agenda.