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Oh, so you found one instance from a non-irreformable decree of the Holy Office.  People argue that heliocentrism vs. geocentrism has no bearing on the good of souls.  So, then, how does this harm souls?  In addition, while it may have been true that Heliocentrism would pose a danger and a scandal to souls in 1616, perhaps by 1835 it posed no such threat.

In any case, we're not talking here about a verdict here or there by the Holy Office, or some offhand comment in a Papal Allocution.  What's protected by the Holy Spirit is the UNIVERSAL Magisterium, when the Pope teaches and addresses the entire Church or promulgates discipline to the entire Church.

My post was in answer to 'Now we're talking. Where has the Church given us evil, even in non-infallible circuмstances? There is no precedent.'

The 1616 decree was an irreversible decree. A 'non-irreformable' decree is reformable. How in God's name can formal heresy become reformable?

'People argue'... I thought we were talking about the Church here, not 'people's opinions... 'that heliocentrism vs. geocentrism has no bearing on the good of souls.' It harms souls in that the Church decreed the Bible, the word of God, said the sun moves, and to deny what God has revealed is what the danger was/is. Moreover, For hundreds of years the Fathers had fought the Pythagorean heresies attached to the heliocentric heresy. These heresies entered the Church once again when that infamous U-turn by popes occurred. Once indulged, Modernism followed as a direct result of the heliocentric heresy. The first evolutionary theory was the Nebular theory, how a heliocentric solar system evolved WITHOUT GOD. There followed Darwin Evolution, when MILLIONS OF SOULS ceased to believe in God. With the backing of both CHURCH and STATE, heliocentrism eliminated God from His creation for most. Why even trad Catholics today believe in theistic evolution, no different to atheistic evolution in that both reject direct creation by God.

There is another way in which the HvG hasd a bearing on souls. Once conceded to biblical and physical heliocentrism, you cannot have one without the other, the Church allowed every Tom, Dick and Harry to decide what was or is a teaching of the Church. In 1820, the Holy Office admitted the 1616 decree was papal, was infallible, and remained a heresy. Here the Holy Ghost put His foot down making sure that the universal magisterium of Pope Paul V was protected. But the heliocentrists found a way around this so as to have their infallible decree defining heliocentrism as formal heresy AND AN ORTHODOX HELIOCENTRISM FROM 1835 ONWARDS. 

It surprises me not one bit now when I find post after post, quoting pope after pope, saint after saint, theologian after theologian, contradicting one another on so many things to do with Catholicism. One pope says this cannot be alterted, Vatican I said no pope can alter what a previous pope said, yet popes since 1835 have been doing this, especially since Vatican II, and then posters quote where someone said it can in this case or that case be alterted, giving another reason for it.

 There has been so many contradictions in Church history since 1835 that a Catholic today would find it hard to know exactly how the Church works any more. When no answer can be found we get the likes of the post I got above 'or there's an aspect of the condemnation of 1616 that you don't understand.' Well tell us then, I thought we were supposed to know how out faith works?

Its a while now since I bothered to listen to ten theologians differ on any aspect of the Catholic faith. I read Pope Benedict as Cardinal Ratzinger deny Original Sin was as a result of Adam and Eve in his Big Bang heliocentric book In the Beginning, that it is a 'collective sin' and the next pope Francis saying he would baptise a Martian if he arrived on Earth, as though a Martian needed baptism. That is what Catholicism has become since that harmless heliocentrism was brought into the womb of the Church, as Church with a MILLION OPINIONS. Just look at this thread.

They say geocentrism has no bearing on the individual soul. Well it has on mine, for I have come to really appreciate the FIRST DOGMA OF THE CHURCH found in OTT's history of Catholic dogmas, namely GOD CAN BE KNOWN FROM THE THINGS THAT HE MADE. It was that heliocentrism brought into the Church from 1835 that led to the elimination of this dogma.  I now find God in every beautiful thing in nature and the universe. Every cloud or star reminds me of His creation, every flower reminds me of His infinite beauty. And then I read for the last 200 years Toms, Dicks and Harrys tellingus geocentrism is not true or has no spiritual value.

Thank God, I know my faith, what I must believe in, what I must do if I am to have any chance of heaven.

The other day I looked at the most recent 5 pages of that thread and it seemed to be a poster named "poche" talking to himself. I figured it was similar to a "graceseeker " thread and moved on.

Poche is a very frequent poster to the forum, but he seldom contributes anything.

My post was in answer to 'Now we're talking. Where has the Church given us evil, even in non-infallible circuмstances? There is no precedent.'

The 1616 decree was an irreversible decree. A 'non-irreformable' decree is reformable. How in God's name can formal heresy become reformable?

'People argue'... I thought we were talking about the Church here, not 'people's opinions... 'that heliocentrism vs. geocentrism has no bearing on the good of souls.' It harms souls in that the Church decreed the Bible, the word of God, said the sun moves, and to deny what God has revealed is what the danger was/is. Moreover, For hundreds of years the Fathers had fought the Pythagorean heresies attached to the heliocentric heresy. These heresies entered the Church once again when that infamous U-turn by popes occurred. Once indulged, Modernism followed as a direct result of the heliocentric heresy. The first evolutionary theory was the Nebular theory, how a heliocentric solar system evolved WITHOUT GOD. There followed Darwin Evolution, when MILLIONS OF SOULS ceased to believe in God. With the backing of both CHURCH and STATE, heliocentrism eliminated God from His creation for most. Why even trad Catholics today believe in theistic evolution, no different to atheistic evolution in that both reject direct creation by God.

There is another way in which the HvG hasd a bearing on souls. Once conceded to biblical and physical heliocentrism, you cannot have one without the other, the Church allowed every Tom, Dick and Harry to decide what was or is a teaching of the Church. In 1820, the Holy Office admitted the 1616 decree was papal, was infallible, and remained a heresy. Here the Holy Ghost put His foot down making sure that the universal magisterium of Pope Paul V was protected. But the heliocentrists found a way around this so as to have their infallible decree defining heliocentrism as formal heresy AND AN ORTHODOX HELIOCENTRISM FROM 1835 ONWARDS.

It surprises me not one bit now when I find post after post, quoting pope after pope, saint after saint, theologian after theologian, contradicting one another on so many things to do with Catholicism. One pope says this cannot be alterted, Vatican I said no pope can alter what a previous pope said, yet popes since 1835 have been doing this, especially since Vatican II, and then posters quote where someone said it can in this case or that case be alterted, giving another reason for it.

 There has been so many contradictions in Church history since 1835 that a Catholic today would find it hard to know exactly how the Church works any more. When no answer can be found we get the likes of the post I got above 'or there's an aspect of the condemnation of 1616 that you don't understand.' Well tell us then, I thought we were supposed to know how out faith works?

Its a while now since I bothered to listen to ten theologians differ on any aspect of the Catholic faith. I read Pope Benedict as Cardinal Ratzinger deny Original Sin was as a result of Adam and Eve in his Big Bang heliocentric book In the Beginning, that it is a 'collective sin' and the next pope Francis saying he would baptise a Martian if he arrived on Earth, as though a Martian needed baptism. That is what Catholicism has become since that harmless heliocentrism was brought into the womb of the Church, as Church with a MILLION OPINIONS. Just look at this thread.

They say geocentrism has no bearing on the individual soul. Well it has on mine, for I have come to really appreciate the FIRST DOGMA OF THE CHURCH found in OTT's history of Catholic dogmas, namely GOD CAN BE KNOWN FROM THE THINGS THAT HE MADE. It was that heliocentrism brought into the Church from 1835 that led to the elimination of this dogma.  I now find God in every beautiful thing in nature and the universe. Every cloud or star reminds me of His creation, every flower reminds me of His infinite beauty. And then I read for the last 200 years Toms, Dicks and Harrys tellingus geocentrism is not true or has no spiritual value.

Thank God, I know my faith, what I must believe in, what I must do if I am to have any chance of heaven.

Cassini,

Enjoyed your post and your point it well taken.  Those that keep Dogma in its proper order of reference will have the last and only laugh.

I hope you have not pushed some S&Sers to think we have had no pope since 1835.

Drew