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Author Topic: Is Father Ringrose dumping the R & R crowd?  (Read 440745 times)

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Offline Pax Vobis

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Re: Is Father Ringrose dumping the R & R crowd?
« Reply #110 on: March 14, 2018, 06:55:18 AM »
Considering all the modern and liberal things which happened under Pius XII, I think a novel term such as “living” should send off warning bells in your head.  

Offline Stubborn

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Re: Is Father Ringrose dumping the R & R crowd?
« Reply #111 on: March 14, 2018, 07:24:04 AM »
As I mentioned, the term "Magisterium" as known today was first used by Pope Pius IX in Tuas Libenter, 1863 :

I only read it in Italian and cannot find a copy in English so I used Google translator. The most relevant part is:
https://www.cathinfo.com/the-library/tuas-libenter/

The extent of obedience

We address to the members of this Congress well-merited praise, because, rejecting, as We expected they would, this false distinction between the philosopher and the philosophy of which We have spoken in earlier letters, they have recognized and accepted that all Catholics are obliged in conscience in their writings to obey the dogmatic decrees of the Catholic Church, which is infallible. In giving them the praise which is their due for confessing a truth which flows necessarily from the obligation of the Catholic faith, We love to think that they have not intended to restrict this obligation of obedience, which is strictly binding on Catholic professors and writers, solely to the points defined by the infallible judgment of the Church as dogmas of faith which all men must believe. And We are persuaded that they have not intended to declare that this perfect adhesion to revealed truths, which they have recognized to be absolutely necessary to the true progress of science and the refutation of error, could be theirs if faith and obedience were only accorded to dogmas expressly defined by the Church. Even when it is only a question of the submission owed to divine faith, this cannot be limited merely to points defined by the express decrees of the Ecuмenical Councils, or of the Roman Pontiffs and of this Apostolic See; this submission must also be extended to all that has been handed down as divinely revealed by the ordinary teaching authority of the entire Church spread over the whole world, and which, for this reason, Catholic theologians, with a universal and constant consent, regard as being of the faith. But, since it is a question of the submission obliging in conscience all those Catholic who are engaged in that study of the speculative sciences so as to procure for the Church new advantages by their writings, the members of the Congress must recognize that it is not sufficient for Catholic savants to accept and respect the dogmas of the Church which We have been speaking about: they must, besides, submit themselves, whether to doctrinal decisions stemming from pontifical congregations, or to points of doctrine which, with common and constant consent, are held in the Church as truths and as theological conclusions so certain that opposing opinions, though they may not be dubbed heretical, nonetheless, merit some other form of theological censure.


Re: Is Father Ringrose dumping the R & R crowd?
« Reply #112 on: March 14, 2018, 08:06:05 AM »
I am sorry you keep saying Fr Chazal rejects RR and embraces sedeprivationism. This message is simply ridiculous. You place extreme burdens on a Catholic to hold to the sedeprivationist theory.
Now R&R is heresy? My...who made you Pope?
http://radtradthomist.chojnowski.me/2018/03/guerard-de-lauriers-call-your-office-fr.html From Dr. Chojnowski:
Here is my email exchange with Fr. Francois Chazal about the position that he articulates in his new upcoming book about Francis, the Papacy, and Fr. Anthony Cekada.

Father,

 By sedeplenist I take it to mean that a man has been elected legitimately to the papacy but cannot exercise his power or take it on because of the obstacle of heresy. Would you say this applies to Francis or not?

Dr. Chojnowski: Fr. Chazal's kind response. And by the way, unlike the arch laymen of Misters Salza and Siscoe, has been a perfect gentleman in this entire back and forth. Here is his response:

Yes, in virtue of canon law. 2264.
 That s also the basis for us using supplied jurisdiction (canon 209).
 It has been our policy from day one, and the Archbishop was much criticized for it.
 It is obvious that the Church does not want Catholics to place themselves under heretics, because they will inevitably drag them towards heresy, or at least compromise. That s also the whole debate since 2012.
 I really don't care if they call me a sedevacantist if I hold this principle.


 fc+


Re: Is Father Ringrose dumping the R & R crowd?
« Reply #113 on: March 14, 2018, 08:13:31 AM »
pic

Offline Pax Vobis

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Re: Is Father Ringrose dumping the R & R crowd?
« Reply #114 on: March 14, 2018, 08:33:42 AM »
Quote
Dear Pax,
I don’t know nor did I say Fr. Chazal embraced sp.
I didn't comment on this; must have been someone else.