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Author Topic: Ironic to hear Sean Johnson call for unity among Trads  (Read 2855 times)

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Offline Matthew

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Ironic to hear Sean Johnson call for unity among Trads
« on: May 03, 2018, 04:02:18 PM »
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  • The Fruit of Fr. Cooper’s Death
    May 2, 2018
    The SSPX and faithful (internal resistance and accordist alike) were mourning the death of Fr. Cooper.

    The Resistance blogs were all crying out for prayers for a holy priest, and none were heard to make untimely remarks about Fr. Cooper’s adherence to the ralliement.

    In Boston, Kentucky they were having a sung Requiem Mass for the repose of the soul of Fr. Cooper.

    By his death, Fr. Cooper brought about what no bishops or priests have accomplished since 2011:

    A momentary unity among Tradition.

    Like we once had not so long ago.

    Panic in Rome!!!

    For a few days, the fighting stops.

    What was it about Fr. Cooper that achieved this momentary unity?

    It was this:

    We all claimed him as one of ours: One of the family of Tradition.

    Tradition!

    That unity could be preserved, if those who’s opinions mattered focused on the preservation of Tradition, rather than other things.

    If they had faith in the invincibility and indefectability of Tradition.

    This was the grace won by Fr. Cooper’s death, I believe:

    By his death, he momentarily reunited Tradition, which for the briefest of moments felt its old strength return.

    He reminded us such a thing WAS POSSIBLE AFTER ALL.

    What strength Tradition could retain, if it was faithful to the grace won by years of pain and suffering from a holy priest!!!

    What a force it could still be for the salvation of souls!

    I hope the right people will dwell on this.

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    Offline Matthew

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    Re: Ironic to hear Sean Johnson call for unity among Trads
    « Reply #1 on: May 03, 2018, 04:06:18 PM »
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  • It's odd that Sean Johnson should bring this up, just days after both he and Samuel had a virtual falling-out with me over my apparent over-indulgence in unity on CathInfo.

    If I have a "thing", a special angle, a favorite personal opinion, a special goal in my life, it is this: to cut through the crap, the novelties added on to the Traditional Movement over the years, to bring us back to the original days of the Traditional Movement. Call it "Back to basics" in the context of the Trad movement.

    This goal really came into focus in 2012, when 90% of the Traditional Movement was involuntarily thrown back to the 1970s, with the defection and downfall of the SSPX, and the birth of the Resistance. 

    You had the "back to the land" movement in reaction to the problems of urbanization. Well, in reaction to the chaos I see in the Trad movement today, my call is to remember what the Trad movement was all about -- its basic tenets, what it stood for, and more importantly WHAT IT DID NOT STAND FOR -- what is completely extraneous to the movement.

    If we kept some perspective and a tad bit of the big picture, we'd all get along much better with each other.

    I am particularly qualified for this "role", as I was born into Tradition, and experienced it in all its glory and all its warts, from my earliest years. I have seen and tasted many of the flavors over the years as well. But most importantly, I've had even more contact with Trad Catholics since 2006, when I started CathInfo. Whatever experienced I lacked before 2006, was more than made up for in the years that followed -- via thousands of interactions and posts from Trad Catholics living all over the world, and from every group and corner of Tradition.
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    Offline PG

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    Re: Ironic to hear Sean Johnson call for unity among Trads
    « Reply #2 on: May 03, 2018, 06:29:30 PM »
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  • As I pray(ed) for Fr. Cooper, I thought also about his degree of adherence to the new direction of the sspx, and what that means compared to the memories I have of him and the emotion I have of his suffering and death.   And, it for some reason meant little.  Whether that is the urging of the holy ghost or not I do not know.  But, I certainly shut out any thoughts that fr. cooper had changed.  And, it was effortless.  Meaning, for me, the pre illness and pre neosspx fr. cooper is the real fr. cooper.  And, if my prayer has any merit, it will be the eternal Fr. Cooper.  Isn't that what they say about heaven?  In heaven one will resume their peak performance/state?  Because, that is all I think about.  I think about the fr. cooper I met, and the fr. cooper I would listen to in sermons that I would come back to over and over again when I needed my daily bread or daily dose you could say.  

    It reminds me of what netanyahu recently said about abbas.  He said "once a h0Ɩ0cαųst denier, always a h0Ɩ0cαųst denier".  And, I think something similar with fr. cooper but in a good way.  And, that is, "once an outstanding traditional priest, always an outstanding traditional priest".  Along with my personal conviction about this by way of the emotion I have and my prayer for him, I think the big outpouring of support for him across all of divided tradition suggest it is the case.  "Once an outstanding traditional priest, always an outstanding traditional priest".  There is no reason to think that Fr. cooper was a sell out.  I think Fr. Cooper was a victim soul, a true sacrifice, which is the priest.  Lets just hope and pray that both the sspx and the resistance recognizes this and doubles our efforts.  

    I had a dream about Fr. Cooper the night he passed away.  I will not divulge all of the details.  But, in the dream, I think you will be pleased to hear that he was a missionary priest, and he said that he would be celebrating mass in my town as a part of his mass circuit.  And, the church was built on the children's playground of the elementary school I attended.  Which, has neat symbolism I think.  Because, children love playgrounds, and Fr. Cooper was always good with children.  I will end it there for you.  Let us pray for Fr. Cooper.  I certainly never want to forget him.  
    "A secure mind is like a continual feast" - Proverbs xv: 15

    Offline Ladislaus

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    Re: Ironic to hear Sean Johnson call for unity among Trads
    « Reply #3 on: May 03, 2018, 06:39:01 PM »
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  • It's odd that Sean Johnson should bring this up, just days after both he and Samuel had a virtual falling-out with me over my apparent over-indulgence in unity on CathInfo.

    Now that you mention it ...

    Good catch.

    Offline JmJ2cents

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    Re: Ironic to hear Sean Johnson call for unity among Trads
    « Reply #4 on: May 04, 2018, 12:23:30 AM »
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  • In fairness to Sean he is not saying anything contrary to what he said before.  He has something in common with  OLMC and with SSPX, all of them are R and R.  They are exactly what the Archbishop was until his last breath.  You didn't see him mention unity with any of the Sedevacantist positions did you?  I don't see any irony at all.  I also found the focus of praying for this R and R priest very refreshing!  


    Offline Neil Obstat

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    Re: Ironic to hear Sean Johnson call for unity among Trads
    « Reply #5 on: May 04, 2018, 01:23:49 AM »
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  • The Fruit of Fr. Cooper’s Death
    May 2, 2018
    The SSPX and faithful (internal resistance and accordist alike)
    were mourning the death of Fr. Cooper.

    The Resistance blogs were all crying out for prayers for a holy priest,
    and none were heard to make untimely remarks
    about Fr. Cooper’s adherence to the ralliement.

    In Boston, Kentucky they were having a sung Requiem Mass
    for the repose of the soul of Fr. Cooper.

    By his death, Fr. Cooper brought about what no bishops or priests
    have accomplished since 2011:

    A momentary unity among Tradition.

    Like we once had not so long ago.

    Panic in Rome!!!

    For a few days, the fighting stops.

    What was it about Fr. Cooper that achieved this momentary unity?

    It was this:

    We all claimed him as one of ours: One of the family of Tradition.

    Tradition!

    That unity could be preserved, if those who’s opinions mattered
    focused on the preservation of Tradition, rather than other things.

    If they had faith in the invincibility and indefectability of Tradition.

    This was the grace won by Fr. Cooper’s death, I believe:

    By his death, he momentarily reunited Tradition,
    which for the briefest of moments felt its old strength return.

    He reminded us such a thing WAS POSSIBLE AFTER ALL.

    What strength Tradition could retain, if it was faithful to the grace
    won by years of pain and suffering from a holy priest!!!

    What a force it could still be for the salvation of souls!

    I hope the right people will dwell on this.

    .
    Whether this short, scintillating notice is somehow out of the ordinary for its author, to me, doesn't seem as important as how beautiful it is. A wonderful pronouncement at a vulnerable time shouldn't be shortchanged for whatever reason.
    .
    This is almost good enough to print on cards to distribute.
    .
    But you really ought to be doing that with prayers, not editorials.
    .
    In any case, it's worth thinking about this.
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    Offline Neil Obstat

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    Re: Ironic to hear Sean Johnson call for unity among Trads
    « Reply #6 on: May 04, 2018, 01:29:44 AM »
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  • In fairness to Sean he is not saying anything contrary to what he said before.  He has something in common with  OLMC and with SSPX, all of them are R and R.  They are exactly what the Archbishop was until his last breath.  You didn't see him mention unity with any of the Sedevacantist positions did you?  I don't see any irony at all.  I also found the focus of praying for this R and R priest very refreshing!  
    .
    I had the same experience. This is a very good thing that Fr. Cooper continues to pull Catholics together even after he's gone.
    .
    It must be a signal grace!
    .
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    Offline Incredulous

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    Re: Ironic to hear Sean Johnson call for unity among Trads
    « Reply #7 on: May 04, 2018, 09:59:09 PM »
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  • Sean has the priestly trait of seeking consolation for souls engaged in battle.


    On 8 May 1915, on the eve of the Battle of Aubers Ridge, (Irish) Father Francis Gleeson addressed the assembled
    2nd British Battalion, Royal Munster Fusiliers at a roadside shrine and gave the general absolution.
    His battalion suffered heavily in the WWI battle.




    "Some preachers will keep silence about the truth, and others will trample it underfoot and deny it. Sanctity of life will be held in derision even by those who outwardly profess it, for in those days Our Lord Jesus Christ will send them not a true Pastor but a destroyer."  St. Francis of Assisi


    Offline Centroamerica

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    Re: Ironic to hear Sean Johnson call for unity among Trads
    « Reply #8 on: May 04, 2018, 10:04:07 PM »
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  • Sean knows almost everything about the Resistance.
    We conclude logically that religion can give an efficacious and truly realistic answer to the great modern problems only if it is a religion that is profoundly lived, not simply a superficial and cheap religion made up of some vocal prayers and some ceremonies...

    Offline ignatius

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    Re: Ironic to hear Sean Johnson call for unity among Trads
    « Reply #9 on: May 05, 2018, 12:10:16 AM »
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  •  :facepalm:

    How is charity and prayers for those who died construde as a sign to put aside objectivity?  Do principles mean anything anymore?  Or is plural culture more important Mr. Johnson over doctrinal clarity?  Can one not pray for those who need prayers, like the world praying for the pope when he dies, does that mean we should call for unity and join the conciliar reform?  Our Lord did say pray for your enemy did he not?  Doesn't mean join hands.  So what were you asking again?

    Or is this just another Johnson wash?

    Btw, why aren't sedevacantists included to the list?  



    Offline hismajesty

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    Re: Ironic to hear Sean Johnson call for unity among Trads
    « Reply #10 on: May 05, 2018, 07:31:46 AM »
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  • THE SSPX IS NOT TRADITION.

    I wish people tjust wake up to this fact. They are de facto, formally part of the conciliar Church. I'm not sure if Sean attends an SSPX chapel, but it sounds like he does.

    4 agreements with Rome so far. One would be enough to make them part of the conciliar Church. We cannot support morally or financially the apostasy of the Church.

    All the points made by Matthew above are correct by the way.

    Sean talks about development of our attitudes towards sedevacantism, but won't wake up to the fact that the SSPX has lost the faith. OBJECTIVELY.

    It's always the hallmark of a liberal when people get all worked up about sedevacantism and are quiet on indultery (now SSPX also).

    Because what we have in common with sedevacantists is that we see heresy for what it is: heresy. Liberals don't like that.

    We all better get use to this behavior though of Samuel and Sean. Because there are many clerics behind them on the rise who are even more zealous against independent, truly Catholic thinking.
    "....I am at a loss what to say respecting those who, when they have once erred, consistently persevere in their folly, and defend one vain thing by another" - Church Father Lactentius on the globe earth


    Offline JmJ2cents

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    Re: Ironic to hear Sean Johnson call for unity among Trads
    « Reply #11 on: May 05, 2018, 08:52:56 AM »
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  • Have you read his SP? I think Sean is very aware of what the SSPX is today?  I mean the man spends how much time calling them out on their turn towards modernist Rome.  In his timely points about unity among traditionalist he makes the distinction between "internal resistance and accordist".  So you saying he is quiet on indultry is a great oversight.  He is anything but quiet.  And Mathew is right in that the goal for the resistance is the same of that of the 1970's.  How is anyone deducing that Sean is minimizing that by recognizing how refreshing it is that no group is focusing on Fr. Cooper being with the SSPX but on the fact that we are all praying for what most of us consider a great priest. Eternal Rest grant unto him O'Lord.....

    Offline ignatius

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    Re: Ironic to hear Sean Johnson call for unity among Trads
    « Reply #12 on: May 05, 2018, 01:15:38 PM »
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  • That's the point.  Tradition to many become self-serving.  It gets tiring to always read something about the ego of samuel or sean and what serves their interests.  Why is it always about them and not the objectivity of the Church?  If they are asked astute questions they run off crying to matthew like a monkey to take away the questions.   Then on cue, others come from the wood work and put cream-puff fuzzies on them...to pad their sensitivities.  It is always the same.  Meanwhile, the questions are never answered, they parade as the 'authority' on so and so subject, and the process continues.  Tactic?

    Thanks matthew for pointing it out and saying NO to this juvenile stuff.  

    Can we now get away from these branded personalities and get to the real crisis in the Church?

    Offline Neil Obstat

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    Re: Ironic to hear Sean Johnson call for unity among Trads
    « Reply #13 on: May 05, 2018, 02:46:09 PM »
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  • :facepalm:

    How is charity and prayers for those who died construde [sic] as a sign to put aside objectivity?  Do principles mean anything anymore?  Or is plural culture more important [to?] Mr. Johnson over doctrinal clarity?  Can one not pray for those who need prayers, like the world praying for the pope when he dies, does that mean we should call for unity and join the conciliar reform?  Our Lord did say pray for your enemy did he not?  Doesn't mean join hands.  So what were you asking again?

    Or is this just another Johnson wash?

    Btw, why aren't sedevacantists included to the list?  
    .
    Why bother asking a question when you just finished answering it, unless you don't like your own answer? 
    .
    (P.S. Not to be misconstrued.)
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    Offline Neil Obstat

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    Re: Ironic to hear Sean Johnson call for unity among Trads
    « Reply #14 on: May 05, 2018, 02:53:06 PM »
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  • THE SSPX IS NOT TRADITION.

    I wish people just wake up to this fact.

    4 agreements with Rome so far. One would be enough to make them part of the conciliar Church.

    Sean... won't wake up to the fact that the SSPX has lost the faith. OBJECTIVELY.

    Because what we have in common with sedevacantists is that we see heresy for what it is: heresy. Liberals don't like that.

    We all better get use to this behavior though of Samuel and Sean. Because there are many clerics behind them on the rise who are even more zealous against independent, truly Catholic thinking.
    .
    When was the last time you heard a priest preach Outside the Church there is No Salvation from the pulpit?
    Liberals don't like that, either.
    And from what I've encountered, neither do sedevacantists, nor SSPX or their sympathizers.
    .
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