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Poll

The public sin of manifest formal heresy by its very nature separates the heretic from the Church.

Affirm
Deny
Doubt (meaning I don't think so)
Unsure

Author Topic: Poll for Those Who Consider Themselves Part of the Resistance  (Read 2480 times)

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Offline Catholic Knight

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Poll for Those Who Consider Themselves Part of the Resistance
« on: October 03, 2025, 09:12:19 AM »
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  • Alternate expressions of the proposition:

    1. One who knowingly, consciously, and willingly publicly asserts a proposition that is in direct contradiction to a Church teaching that must be believed with Divine and Catholic Faith separates himself from the Church by that very fact.
    2. One who knowingly, consciously, and willingly publicly denies or doubts a Church teaching that must be believed with Divine and Catholic Faith separates himself from the Church by that very fact.

    Clarifications:

    1. One who is separated from the Church is not a member of the Church.  He goes from being Catholic to non-Catholic.
    2. The separation takes place at the very instant the sin is committed.
    3. The proposition is independent of its application to a particular case.

    Offline Catholic Knight

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    Re: Poll for Those Who Consider Themselves Part of the Resistance
    « Reply #1 on: October 05, 2025, 07:48:20 AM »
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  • Back to the top.  Please vote.


    Offline MiracleOfTheSun

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    Re: Poll for Those Who Consider Themselves Part of the Resistance
    « Reply #2 on: October 05, 2025, 08:44:54 AM »
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  • The silence is deafening.

    Offline Catholic Knight

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    Re: Poll for Those Who Consider Themselves Part of the Resistance
    « Reply #3 on: October 06, 2025, 09:58:02 AM »
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  • As at the time of this post, here are the poll results:



    I am pleasantly surprised to see that 11 out of 14 votes affirmed the proposition. Deo gratias!

    Affirm = in accordance with a Church teaching that is of Divine and Catholic Faith
    Deny = heresy (I am not accusing you of being a heretic)
    Doubt = heresy but to a lesser degree than denying (I am not accusing you of being a heretic)
    Unsure = more homework needed 

    Offline Catholic Knight

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    Re: Poll for Those Who Consider Themselves Part of the Resistance
    « Reply #4 on: October 07, 2025, 06:47:56 AM »
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  • At this time with 20 votes cast:

    Affirm = 17
    Deny = 1
    Doubt = 1
    Unsure = 1

    Beautiful!


    Offline Catholic Knight

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    Re: Poll for Those Who Consider Themselves Part of the Resistance
    « Reply #5 on: Yesterday at 08:38:27 AM »
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  • Thank you to all those that voted.  For those who voted "deny", "doubt", or "unsure", will you please state the reason?

    Offline songbird

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    Re: Poll for Those Who Consider Themselves Part of the Resistance
    « Reply #6 on: Yesterday at 07:12:43 PM »
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  •  affirm

    Offline Catholic Knight

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    Offline Gray2023

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    Re: Poll for Those Who Consider Themselves Part of the Resistance
    « Reply #8 on: Yesterday at 07:54:30 PM »
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  • Please define being part of the resistance. 
    Fatti Maschii, Parole Femine

    Offline Stubborn

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  • Alternate expressions of the proposition:

    1. One who knowingly, consciously, and willingly publicly asserts a proposition that is in direct contradiction to a Church teaching that must be believed with Divine and Catholic Faith separates himself from the Church by that very fact.
    2. One who knowingly, consciously, and willingly publicly denies or doubts a Church teaching that must be believed with Divine and Catholic Faith separates himself from the Church by that very fact.

    Clarifications:

    1. One who is separated from the Church is not a member of the Church.  He goes from being Catholic to non-Catholic.
    2. The separation takes place at the very instant the sin is committed.
    3. The proposition is independent of its application to a particular case.
    First, you should differentiate between the sin of formal heresy, and the possible sin material heresy:

    Fr. Hesse:
    Objective (or Material) heresy is: "According to the Church, salvation is attainable outside the Church".
    Formal (or Manifest) heresy is: "I don't care what the Church teaches, the Church is wrong, I say salvation is attainable outside the Church."

    Second, it might help to differentiate between the heresy of (A) a Catholic, and (B) one who never was Catholic so has always been separated from the Church. Of course for this thread, (B) is pretty much irrelevant.

    We know that a penitent heretic (A) can receive absolution of his sin of heresy through confession, or in danger of death can receive all of the sacraments of the Last Rites (Confession, Communion and Extreme Unction) and thereby the censure is removed and he is absolved of his sin of heresy (and all of his other sins) by any priest, whereas (B) those separated from the Church are forbidden by the Church to receive the sacraments.   

    How do you explain that one who is presumably no longer a member of the Church (A) can receive the sacraments at all.

    Also, how is what you say in your quote above for the sin of heresy is not also true for, say, the sin of Adultery?
    "But Peter and the apostles answering, said: We ought to obey God, rather than men." - Acts 5:29

    The Highest Principle in the Church: "We are first of all under obedience to God, and only then under obedience to man" - Fr. Hesse