Quote from: girlytrad 2025-08-18, 11:18:47 AM



Plenus Venter, I am very surprised at your response. May I ask you to consider a few things in counter balance to what you just said?

"The Silence" - When Father Pivert talks about this it means this: That a person goes to a Catholic Mass with the rightful expectation that they will receive instruction through the pulpit on how to understand and resist the errors of the time. Errors mainly of the Novus Ordo religion, but also of the world around us, which the Conciliar Religion has capitulated to. They receive silence instead when going to the SSPX. This silence by the priests is scandalous. The faithful there are slowly suffocated. The sheep are not fed.

So if you are with me so far, answer me this: How can it therefore be good for any Catholic soul to go to such a Mass? You say that if they have catechism and zeal then it's okay. That may be so for grown adults like ourselves with good catechism. But it is not true of children, many women led by emotions and intuition, and other poorly educated people.

Should it all be left then to the father of the family to instruct his wife and children as you imply? Is he not owed some support by the priest in this duty? How can such a situation be good in the long run for families? Is it surely not better for the family to wait even a few months for a visit from a resistance priest who can then help them, and strengthen them in the Faith?

Consider also what message this sends the children. Dad lets them fraternize with children who are pro SSPX. Should he tell them not to? But he has already told them effectively, (by his actions) that they are Catholic. What manner of confusion might this cause in fragile minds of the young!



And you say the two silences are the same. In a way yes, but in another way no. Because you go into an SSPX Mass expecting it to be Catholic, and it is not. It is an unnecessary occasion of sin. At least by staying at home, the faithful soul has the consolation that they have done everything in their power to avoid occasions of sins to their faith. Any right minded Catholic should want to meet their maker in this state, wouldn't you think?

Because what manner of derangement drives a person to want to attend at all costs, a Mass where nobody even understands the fight anymore, including the priest? To "voice their concerns". Will that be effective? How often might they do that? Saying "voice your concerns" sounds tough on paper, but when you work out the practicalities, you realize pretty quickly its a pretext when SSPX Mass attenders say this to us, while calling themselves resistance.

And why does it not work? I will tell you why. Because nobody in the SSPX milieu, including the priest would take that person seriously. The first thing they would quite rightly say is "Well if you like the resistance so much, why don't you go there! You are coming here to the SSPX and our position is reconciliation with Rome" And the person sinks back down into themselves continuing to go for years on end. Getting no encouragement from the mileu around them, and eventually their original experience with resistance clergy gets forgotten, they have no incentive to invite them to say Mass because they are getting Mass already, and they fade out of view.

I have lost count of the number of people I have known since 2012, that talked tough and faded out. Losing interest in the resistance clergy. Maybe logging onto cathinfo or youtube occasionally to get a tickle from a Bishop Williamson sermon, but that's about it. And many of these people were well formed. As the years have gone on, I have become even more hardened on this point watching my friends lose spiritual consciousness like  they are taking some kind of anesthetic.

You are right Plenus Venter, that you can go off the rails with a resistance priest.  Well this is surely true because so many are ambivalent now on the SSPX! But secondly, there can be all manner of moral issues, and we know this with certain members of the clergy driving faithful away through inconsiderate (to put it very mildly) behavior. Some clergy of ours ought even to be avoided depending on the situation. But this is all relatively rare and in no way applies across the board.

What does apply across the board is the SSPX position which priests within are obliged to comply with, at least through their external actions. So no matter where you go as a lay person, you can be guaranteed the same silence and indifference to the world and modernism. So no, it is not "just as well" that you can go astray with a resistance priest.


Finally, I think we should talk about these circuмstances. For the formation of consciences.

Well, I got news for Fr. Hewko and others like him -- you perfectly describe Bp. Zendejas here, as well as the priests who work with him. If you disagree or claim otherwise because he's "not on your team", any such cult members can go jump in the lake. Reality is reality, and it doesn't care about your feelings. Or your "team".

The fact is that Bp. Zendejas is perfectly described in what I quoted here. No amount of twisting his sermons from 10 years ago or torturing his words till they scream will change that.

The sad reality is that Fr. Pfeiffer had an undue human attachment to running a seminary. Bp. Williamson told him no (because he wasn't equipped to fulfill that office) and Fr. P wouldn't take no for an answer. Fr. P, and Fr. Hewko who lived in that milieu for years (and was formed by it) made the decision to start attacking any Resistance priests or bishops who weren't in their group, or who disagreed with Fr. Pfeiffer about anything. In their little cult, Fr. Pfeiffer in the de-facto pope. It's insane. But, sadly, true.

"We're the only true ______, everyone else is sold out, you have to avoid them..." It's the oldest story in the book of cult behavior. It's Cult 101.

It's sad to see such self-serving and cult-like behavior in the Resistance, but if you think about it, you wouldn't be shocked. What IS the "Resistance"? Who vets individuals before they enter? Who gives them their certificate of membership? Who is the ultimate authority in the Resistance? Answer? Anyone can join, there is no authority, and membership is merely claimed by whoever. So yeah -- just finding a bad apple "associated with" the Resistance means ABSOLUTELY NOTHING. Just like finding a horrible criminal (violator of women, thief, murderer) reflects NOTHING on your favorite devout Trad Catholic priest. They are both Men, yes -- but "manhood" is given out liberally; almost half the world is men. One man can be a horrible criminal, and the man next to him could be a living saint. YES, THAT IS HOW IT WORKS.

Unless you have an authoritative organization, with control over membership, authority over individual members, etc. then finding "evil" in the organization MEANS NOTHING with respect to the rest of the organization. It's basic logic.

When Resistance Catholics attending SSPX Masses become indifferent and like the 'frog in boiling water', we should likewise ask what the root cause of that is. It's not because they are attending the Traditional Mass and frequenting the sacraments and hearing the almost exclusively edifying sermons (that is still the rule in the SSPX, perhaps not in Germany?). No, it is for the reason you cite for your cause: they lack catechism and zeal... and they have not understood the crisis.

Fr Pivert answers the question "And what do you think are the biggest errors of the society of St. Pius X?" with this succinct response: "The silence. And that's what it is very difficult to understand, because silence is not an error. It is not a fighting error. It's an easier way to fall in error when you do not know it.". Now whether you resist the slide of the SSPX by continuing to attend and voicing your concerns, or by staying at home and depriving yourself of the sacraments, the same void exists, the same silence - unless you actively take measures to educate yourself about the crisis. And this is the answer to this problem, understanding the battle we are in. You can just as well go off the rails with any other Resistance priest as you can with the SSPX. Just look at what has transpired already in the Resistance in less than 15 years... 

It is a grave sin to not fulfill your Sunday obligation. It requires a proportionate reason not to do so. Be careful trying to bind consciences. Catholic Tradition does not need more popes making dogmas where they do not exist. Prudential decisions change with circuмstances. Leave it to directors of souls.

Quote from: Seraphina 2025-08-21, 4:16:52 PM
Cults are full of self-proclaimed experts, leaders, and manipulators of others, mostly by fear and shame, and threat of exclusion and subsequent isolation, ie. shunning

If the shoe fits, wear it.

Perhaps, indeed they did, but Athanasius did not respond in kind, with insults, rash judgments, accusations, and refusal to answer questions or listen to those with legitimate concerns.
So far as being isolated, Athanasius accepted his banishments and false excommunications with equanimity, telling his tiny flock, “They (Arians) may have the buildings, but we have the Faith.”
There is no record of nearly every sermon turning into a lengthy lament decrying the faults of Arius and the Arians instead of mainly expounding upon the Gospel and Epistle that they with him might increase in their knowledge and be strengthened in the Faith. Furthermore, Athanasius centered his teaching on adherence to Christ, Himself, not on some other Saint’s teachings, admirable as it may have been.
That is why he is titled, Saint Athanasius and Fr. Arius, a priest known for his heresy.

P.S. It is my personal observation, for what it’s worth, that break-off groups whose main emphasis remains upon, ‘What’s wrong with where we came from” usually comes to naught within a generation and a half, or else it turns into something else. (This is  n o t  my opinion. It’s my factual observation among both Catholics and Conservative Protestants.)

+St. Athanasius endured exile, false accusations, and near-universal opposition, yet never wavered. Fidelity to the Faith is never measured by popularity, only by truth.

Those who feel themselves obliged in conscience to assist at the New Mass on Sunday can fulfil their Sunday obligation. But one cannot accuse a person of a grave fault because he prefers not to assist at Mass on Sunday rather than assist at the New Mass.