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Author Topic: Local Ordinary TRUMPS Corpus Christi!  (Read 4487 times)

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Offline Elsa Zardini

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Local Ordinary TRUMPS Corpus Christi!
« Reply #15 on: June 14, 2013, 09:40:29 AM »
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  • Sorry for the size of the letters. Didn't know they were going to be so big! Better go watering my plants.


    Offline Ekim

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    Local Ordinary TRUMPS Corpus Christi!
    « Reply #16 on: June 19, 2013, 03:33:18 PM »
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  • Matthew,

    The Feast of Corpus Christi was celebrated in St. Marys with a Solemn High Mass and Procession on the actual Feastday, the last Thursday in May.  Because it was celebrated on the actual Feastday, it could not be translated to Sunday then. (Celebrating it on Sunday is traditionally only permitted if it is a grave inconvenience to celebrate it on the Thursday, but it wasn't, so we didn't.)

    The decision here on Sunday, June 2, was whether to celebrate the X Sunday after Pentecost, or the Dedication of the Cathedral in our diocese.  Traditionally, the later is a First Class Feastday which "trumps" the regular Sunday Mass when they fall on the same day, so that is simply what the priests in St. Marys followed...the traditional way of doing things.

    Please correct the error posted on your site, since I have no login there.

    Thank you,
    L.


    Thanks for the clarification "L".  However, this was NOT the reason that was given on the Angelus Blog. Instead, the impression was given that it was done to show unity with the local Bishop.  


    Offline Machabees

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    Local Ordinary TRUMPS Corpus Christi!
    « Reply #17 on: June 19, 2013, 04:09:21 PM »
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  • Quote from: Ekim
    Matthew,

    The Feast of Corpus Christi was celebrated in St. Marys with a Solemn High Mass and Procession on the actual Feastday, the last Thursday in May.  Because it was celebrated on the actual Feastday, it could not be translated to Sunday then. (Celebrating it on Sunday is traditionally only permitted if it is a grave inconvenience to celebrate it on the Thursday, but it wasn't, so we didn't.)

    The decision here on Sunday, June 2, was whether to celebrate the X Sunday after Pentecost, or the Dedication of the Cathedral in our diocese.  Traditionally, the later is a First Class Feastday which "trumps" the regular Sunday Mass when they fall on the same day, so that is simply what the priests in St. Marys followed...the traditional way of doing things.

    Please correct the error posted on your site, since I have no login there.

    Thank you,
    L.


    Thanks for the clarification "L".  However, this was NOT the reason that was given on the Angelus Blog. Instead, the impression was given that it was done to show unity with the local Bishop.  


    Where did that letter of "L" come from?

    Who is "L"?  A SSPX priest?

    If "L" wants some credibility over what was printed in the "official" SSPX Angelus Blog stating differently, then "L" will need to provide some credence, less "L" would be trying to inject a different "narration" to cover up events?

    That would be fair from "L", would it not?

    Offline John Grace

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    Local Ordinary TRUMPS Corpus Christi!
    « Reply #18 on: June 19, 2013, 06:22:44 PM »
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  • I received a PM regarding this and SSPX encouraging laity to attend the Novus Ordo. Are their links or articles on Cath Info? At the moment, I don't intend to spend more time on direction of the SSPX.

    Is there some information that could be posted.? I really don't have the time or interest in the happenings of the SSPX.

    Offline Machabees

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    Local Ordinary TRUMPS Corpus Christi!
    « Reply #19 on: June 19, 2013, 10:54:52 PM »
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  • Quote from: John Grace
    I received a PM regarding this and SSPX encouraging laity to attend the Novus Ordo. Are their links or articles on Cath Info? At the moment, I don't intend to spend more time on direction of the SSPX.

    Is there some information that could be posted.? I really don't have the time or interest in the happenings of the SSPX.


    A thread was already started here:

    Novus Ordo Watch: in the SSPX

    http://www.cathinfo.com/catholic.php/Novus-Ordo-Watch-in-the-SSPX


    Offline jen51

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    Local Ordinary TRUMPS Corpus Christi!
    « Reply #20 on: June 19, 2013, 11:19:54 PM »
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  • I was there for that Mass that day. I was completely confused as to why they would switch things up on such an important liturgical day.
    Religion clean and undefiled before God and the Father, is this: to visit the fatherless and widows in their tribulation: and to keep one's self unspotted from this world.
    ~James 1:27

    Offline Neil Obstat

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    Local Ordinary TRUMPS Corpus Christi!
    « Reply #21 on: June 20, 2013, 03:38:04 AM »
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  • .

    This appears to be evidence that the parish in St. Mary's is giving their
    approval to liturgical accommodations in the direction of unity with the
    local diocese.  

    It puts the appearance of accord with the local bishop above the
    practice of Tradition.  

    The local cathedral is a NovusOrdo cathedral where the Newmass is the
    so-called ordinary rite.  Therefore this accommodation bows with
    homage to the Newmass, Newchurch, Newbishop and Newsacraments.

    There is no need to change the Mass for the Sunday to recognize the
    jurisdiction of the local bishop, or to pray for him in the Mass.  And if
    this change is acceptable for the SSPX practice, then what other
    changes would likewise be acceptable?  

    Why stop with this change?  If the SSPX parish wants to prove its
    loyalty and "unity" with the local diocese, why not just stop having all
    these Sundays after Pentecost and just go with the flow, making them
    all Sundays in Ordinary Time in a 3-year cycle with all new "readings?"

    If dropping the Sunday within the Octave of Corpus Christi is okay
    because it shows 'unity' with the diocese, then why should anyone be
    surprised if the next shoe to fall will be moving Christ the King to the
    end of November where it would displace the 24th and Last Sunday
    after Pentecost?  I mean, nobody in the diocese Newmasses will be
    reading Matt. xxiv that day in NovusOrdoland, so why should the
    Society parish read it if that makes it appear to be not in "unity" with
    the diocese?  

    Isn't the principle established already that 'unity' with the diocese
    is more important than the Mass of the liturgical calendar?  

    I read the linked article and it certainly seems like Mark Riddle has no
    qualms about anything NovusOrdo.  He's a full-blown Accordista at
    best, and maybe a dyed-in-the-wool Novordien himself, for all you can
    tell by his words.  Even if he doesn't say so, he could be presuming
    anyone opposed to this liturgical accommodation must be schismatic
    or sedevacantist.  And he's right there on the Angelus website in all
    its glory. He works for the Angelus, he says.


    Even if it has gone to bi-monthly issues, the Angelus can still
    dish out the damage.



    The quote from Ekim (whoever "L" is isn't clear - but it's obviously
    someone who is involved in planning the Mass -- hey, maybe he
    (or she?) is a liturgy minister who dreams up novelties? -that would
    be right in accord with the popular trend and showing 'unity' with the
    diocese!) has the following:

    "The decision here on Sunday, June 2, was whether to celebrate
    the X Sunday after Pentecost, or the Dedication of the Cathedral
    in our diocese."  

    Say that again?  The "X" Sunday after Pentecost?  Pinch me if I'm
    not 'with-it', but it's the Second Sunday after Pentecost, not the "X"
    Sunday. Or, is this guy not sure what's up because he's used to
    thinking in terms of how many Sundays in Ordinary Time it is?  Don't
    be surprised.  I have a sneaking suspicion that he is just that and
    doesn't care which Sunday after Pentecost it is, because that's now
    obsolete and he's not looking back.  He's not "turning back the clock."

    We've been through this all before.  These people are not acting out
    of ignorance.  This is not the first time around the block.  




    Like Fr. Pfeiffer says, the ExSPX is dead.  It's a chicken running around
    with it's head chopped off, bumping into hay bales and barn doors.




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    Offline Ekim

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    Local Ordinary TRUMPS Corpus Christi!
    « Reply #22 on: June 20, 2013, 08:07:09 AM »
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  • The local cathedral is a NovusOrdo cathedral where the Newmass is the
    so-called ordinary rite.  Therefore this accommodation bows with
    homage to the Newmass, Newchurch, Newbishop and Newsacraments.


    Good Point Neil


    Offline Neil Obstat

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    « Reply #23 on: June 20, 2013, 10:48:46 AM »
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  • Quote from: jen51
    I was there for that Mass that day. I was completely confused as to why they would switch things up on such an important liturgical day.



    The fact that you were there and yet you were completely confused
    adds weight to the impression that they did not explain what they
    were doing, because if they had explained it so as to be understood,
    then the people who were there (like you!) would have known their
    reason(s) and they would not be confused.  

    Now, there could be mitigating circuмstances, such as perhaps you
    had arrived just after someone made an announcement from the pulpit
    before Mass, and you had not somehow managed to speak to anyone
    who had been there to hear that, because you had stayed after Mass
    to pray your thanksgiving and by the time you got up to leave, all
    those who had known the answer you sought had already gone away.

    Or whatever.  

    But in all likelihood, the more probable state of affairs is, that there
    had been no attempt to explain what the reason was for changing the
    Mass from what the calendar indicates (depending, of course, on
    which calendar is being used!) to this dedication of the cathedral
    liturgy.  

    Which reminds me, you can be really sure that the diocese cathedral
    was not using the prayers for Mass of the Common of the Dedication
    of a Church that is found in the 1962 Missal of John XXIII.

    Consequently, how can this "L" or the SSPX representative claim
    that this "SWITCH" was really any act of 'unity' with the local
    diocese?  To be a true act of 'unity' it should be using the same
    liturgy that the diocese is using for the occasion - the NovusOrdo
    liturgy,
    for otherwise, it should be seen as an act of 'rebellion'
    or 'dissidence'.



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    Offline Neil Obstat

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    « Reply #24 on: June 20, 2013, 11:03:37 AM »
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  • Quote from: Ekim
    The local cathedral is a NovusOrdo cathedral where the Newmass is the
    so-called ordinary rite.  Therefore this accommodation bows with
    homage to the Newmass, Newchurch, Newbishop and Newsacraments.


    Good Point Neil


    Thank you, Ekim.  

    There's more to this.  Principles have consequences.  

    For example, as I said in my previous post, above:

    "Consequently, how can this "L" or the SSPX representative
    claim that this "SWITCH" was really any act of 'unity' with
    the local diocese?  To be a true act of 'unity' it should be
    using the same liturgy that the diocese is using for the
    occasion - the NovusOrdo liturgy, for otherwise, it should be
    seen as an act of 'rebellion' or 'dissidence'."

    How could the local bishop be respectful of the chapel
    making the overture that this Traditional Latin Mass was
    in some way an act of 'unity' with the diocese when the
    diocese does not approve of the TLM being offered all
    the time in the chapel?  He would be shooting himself in
    the foot.

    What would the bishop say when his phone rings and he
    is asked by another bishop, perhaps his own ARCHBISHOP
    or CARDINAL, asking him why he's approving of this
    'dissident' or 'disobedient' SSPX TLM in his diocese on the
    occasion of the commemoration of the cathedral's
    dedication?  Is the bishop going to be willing to suffer the
    ire and scorn of his 'legitimate superiors' for this evident
    compromise with the ENEMY?

    And I haven't even begun to address the way this matter
    of PRINCIPLE affects how +Fellay's schemes and antics
    have been similar or dissimilar in any one or combination
    of aspects.



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