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Author Topic: Indifference to the Faith at SSPX Chapels  (Read 5156 times)

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Offline Nadir

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Re: Indifference to the Faith at SSPX Chapels
« Reply #45 on: February 07, 2021, 04:50:45 AM »
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  • .
    I don't want to sound naive but I don't think I understand the point of this? :confused:
    I didn’t get it either, Yeti. I don’t have a crockpot or a microwave.
    Help of Christians, guard our land from assault or inward stain,
    Let it be what God has planned, His new Eden where You reign.

    +RIP 2024

    Offline Mr G

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    Re: Indifference to the Faith at SSPX Chapels
    « Reply #46 on: February 07, 2021, 11:57:17 AM »
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  • LOL.  iz okay
    Crock pots are also called "slow cookers".  They take a long time to heat up.
    Microwaves are insta heat.
    :)
    You got it!


    Offline Yeti

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    Re: Indifference to the Faith at SSPX Chapels
    « Reply #47 on: February 07, 2021, 04:37:51 PM »
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  • Sorry, but I don't have a crock pot, have never used one, and am not totally clear on their function. A simple answer to my question would have saved both of us some time.
    Sorry, Incred, I'm not sure what happened to my manners there. ::)

    Offline Incredulous

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    Re: Indifference to the Faith at SSPX Chapels
    « Reply #48 on: February 07, 2021, 09:19:32 PM »
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  • Sorry, Incred, I'm not sure what happened to my manners there. ::)
     No problemo!

    Here's the electronics version of the same concept.
    "Some preachers will keep silence about the truth, and others will trample it underfoot and deny it. Sanctity of life will be held in derision even by those who outwardly profess it, for in those days Our Lord Jesus Christ will send them not a true Pastor but a destroyer."  St. Francis of Assisi

    Offline Last Tradhican

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    Re: Indifference to the Faith at SSPX Chapels
    « Reply #49 on: February 08, 2021, 11:46:16 AM »
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  • This posting from the thread on chaperoning Paradigm Shift - Chaperoning Daughters - page 1 - Catholic Living in the Modern World - Catholic Info (cathinfo.com) is very applicable here:


    Quote
    If Mothers dress to attract men like described above, to any degree, of course they are not LIVING the faith, and they should not be surprised if their daughter does the same, and ups the ante. This is a big problem even in the SSPX, a big problem. A mother that was living in the world before she got married and then did not really fully convert, or she thinks her daughter will find a good husband using the same technique because it worked for her. This is a big mistake and her daughter will be the one that pays for it. The odds of her daughter finding a husband with her mothers old technique are very slim. A mother who is constantly unbuttoning that one extra button on her top to reveal her cleavage, or wearing jeans and tight tops because "they cover the legs completely and I do not see anything wrong with them" , should not be surprised when her daughter ups the ante.

    The bottom line is  - Without the Catholic Faith LIVED 24/7 by the parents, any efforts to teach the faith LIVED  to their daughters will never work.

    Mothers

    If you are wearing tight dresses/ pants /tops  you are not LIVING the Faith 24/7 and your daughters will pay for it
    If you are wearing short dresses, and skirts and slits that reveal a your knees when you sit, you are not LIVING the Faith 24/7 and your daughters will pay for it
    The short of it is that you need to dress like a mother, which is what you are, you are married, you do not need to attract other men.


    Offline Miser Peccator

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    Re: Indifference to the Faith at SSPX Chapels
    « Reply #50 on: February 08, 2021, 01:04:50 PM »
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  • This posting from the thread on chaperoning Paradigm Shift - Chaperoning Daughters - page 1 - Catholic Living in the Modern World - Catholic Info (cathinfo.com) is very applicable here:
    Gosh it seems so late in the with everything else going on but I want to respond to you.
    I completely agree.
    The hard part about this from my own personal experience in a TLM chapel is that the Dads often do not support this.
    I know it can go both ways of course.
    In my experience, the Dad did not want to be the "bad guy" and refused to take a stand on the dress code with his daughters.
    So the wife is left to feel like she is in competition with the worldly women and yet still needs to set the example for her daughters.
    In my case I chose my example to my daughters but they saw how they could divide and conquer as Dad would make excuses for their cleavage "wardrobe malfunctions" and mini skirts which he said were not really mini etc.
    Many of my friends fought the good fight but Dad didn't give them backing and they had to eventually give up.
    Now you have a three way power play and marital stress affects the whole family.
    Anyway, at this stage in the game  (endtimes) I'm not sure what the best strategy is since we are facing the most incredibly dire straights with the trans agenda etc.
    I exposed AB Vigano's public meetings with Crowleyan Satanist Dugin so I ask protection on myself family friends priest, under the Blood of Jesus Christ and mantle of the Blessed Virgin Mary! If harm comes to any of us may that embolden the faithful to speak out all the more so Catholics are not deceived.



    [fon

    Offline Carissima

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    Re: Indifference to the Faith at SSPX Chapels
    « Reply #51 on: February 08, 2021, 02:42:32 PM »
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  • The hard part about this from my own personal experience in a TLM chapel is that the Dads often do not support this.
    I know it can go both ways of course.
    In my experience, the Dad did not want to be the "bad guy" and refused to take a stand on the dress code with his daughters.

    ....Dad would make excuses for their cleavage "wardrobe malfunctions" and mini skirts which he said were not really mini etc.
    Many of my friends fought the good fight but Dad didn't give them backing and they had to eventually give up.
    There’s a reason for this. 
    We have a culture of dressing here in America that isn’t based on Trad Catholic dress code standards. Men and Women in the US have been desensitized over many decades from those old fashioned modesty norms from the 50’s and before. So it’s very easy to excuse modern day fashions because some aren’t affected or shocked by them, and in their minds it’s considered ’normal attire’ because they see most people dressed like this every day. 
    Take yoga pants for example. Who doesn’t see many American women wear these on a daily basis? Not that yoga pants could ever be appropriate, but the desensitization to this level of dress (or lack thereof) is definitely there. 
    Over time there was a slow boil adjustment to modern American fashion, and many have to undo the years of damage to their minds by it. Most don't even know that damage was ever done to them.

    I’m not making excuses for the Catholic fathers failing in their jobs, only explaining the damage that modern American mindset has had over men and women, and that includes clothing and fashion. 

    We need to pray for each other, because only by God’s Grace can the minds and hearts of all us affected by this begin to heal. 

    Offline Last Tradhican

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    Re: Indifference to the Faith at SSPX Chapels
    « Reply #52 on: February 08, 2021, 03:18:47 PM »
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  • Gosh it seems so late in the with everything else going on but I want to respond to you.
    I completely agree.
    The hard part about this from my own personal experience in a TLM chapel is that the Dads often do not support this.
    I know it can go both ways of course.
    In my experience, the Dad did not want to be the "bad guy" and refused to take a stand on the dress code with his daughters.
    So the wife is left to feel like she is in competition with the worldly women and yet still needs to set the example for her daughters.
    In my case I chose my example to my daughters but they saw how they could divide and conquer as Dad would make excuses for their cleavage "wardrobe malfunctions" and mini skirts which he said were not really mini etc.
    Many of my friends fought the good fight but Dad didn't give them backing and they had to eventually give up.
    Now you have a three way power play and marital stress affects the whole family.
    Anyway, at this stage in the game  (endtimes) I'm not sure what the best strategy is since we are facing the most incredibly dire straights with the trans agenda etc.
    I'm baffled by todays SSPX traditionalist fathers that allow their daughters to dress provocatively, allow their daughters to go out on "dates" or go nightclubing and drinking. Are they blinding themselves to what is really happening, or are they so desensitized that they do not see anything bad in their daughters licentious "hobby"? Or have they lost their manhood altogether? My speculations lean toward the idea that the parents, both father and mother, met each other the same way as their daughters are "dating" now and they think they turned out alright, so, they rationalize that their daughter will work it out eventually like they did. In almost all cases it will not work out the same way. Sin is sin, if you play with it, like fire it will burn you. I have seen this first hand in many families and it didn't work out well.


    Offline Last Tradhican

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    Re: Indifference to the Faith at SSPX Chapels
    « Reply #53 on: February 08, 2021, 03:43:53 PM »
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  • I'm baffled by todays SSPX traditionalist fathers that allow their daughters to dress provocatively, allow their daughters to go out on "dates" or go nightclubing and drinking. Are they blinding themselves to what is really happening, or are they so desensitized that they do not see anything bad in their daughters licentious "hobby"? Or have they lost their manhood altogether? My speculations lean toward the idea that the parents, both father and mother, met each other the same way as their daughters are "dating" now and they think they turned out alright, so, they rationalize that their daughter will work it out eventually like they did. In almost all cases it will not work out the same way. Sin is sin, if you play with it, like fire it will burn you. I have seen this first hand in many families and it didn't work out well.
    I think that the above behavior by the parents can only happen because of some other sins that keep the parents from receiving the grace to persevere over the world and its master Satan. "Without Me, you can do nothing" (John 15:5).  The parents do not have God's grace to persevere because of some other sins. All of the above and this comment now, applies also to spiritual fathers, to priests.

    Online Ladislaus

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    Re: Indifference to the Faith at SSPX Chapels
    « Reply #54 on: February 08, 2021, 03:45:38 PM »
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  • I'm baffled by todays SSPX traditionalist fathers that allow their daughters to dress provocatively, allow their daughters to go out on "dates" or go nightclubing and drinking. Are they blinding themselves to what is really happening, or are they so desensitized that they do not see anything bad in their daughters licentious "hobby"? Or are have they lost their manhood? My speculations lean toward the idea that the parents, both father and mother, met each other the same way as their daughters are "dating" now and they think they turned out alright, so, they rationalize that their daughter will work it out eventually like they did. In almost all cases it will not work out the same way. Sin is sin, if you play with it, like fire it will burn you. I have seen this first hand in many families and it didn't work out well.

    Some certainly have lax consciences, but others (I know from speaking to them), have just given in, having gotten to the point where they feel that if they come down hard on their daughters, then the daughters will reject the faith entirely.  Once girls have gotten to the point of not caring, or of caring so little about morality and the faith, that they would behave and dress as they do, then often they're at the point where if they had to choose between persisting in their behavior and remaining Catholic, they would go with the former.  So it's their parents' last-gasp desperate attempt to keep them at least nominally in the Church, with the implicit mentality of thinking it's better that they be bad Catholics than non-Catholics.  They could try to "come down hard" on them, but their perspective is that, if they did, it would build such resentment that the second these girls saw a chance to become independent of them, they would immediately go run off and shack up with some guy, leaving the Church in the rear-view mirror.  I think that some of them have a legitimate point.  I'm guessing they could have done more to keep it from getting to that point, but I leave it to God to judge them.  I've known some kids in home-schooled families who had little or no exposure to the outside world and lived completely immersed in a Catholic mindset and detached from the world, who the minute they got jobs and could support themselves, they ran off, shacked up, and stopped practicing the faith.  Sometimes when the kids are somewhat isolated and lonely, all it takes is for some cute boy to come along and start "buttering them up" before they turn into putty in some non-Catholic's hands.

    At the end of the day, it's not enough to impose BEHAVIOR.  Kids have to embrace the principles of the faith and of Catholic morality interiorly.  You can say, "So long as you live in my house, you'll never dress immodestly."  But what happens when they no longer live in the house?  Only through grace, through prayers, and ultimately through a cooperation of FREE will, will children ultimately continue in living the faith.  Imposing behavior works for little ones who haven't reached the age of reason.  Once they've reached the age of reason, they must be persuaded to embrace the principles of the faith and not merely made to act as if they do.

    To that end, probably the best way to do that is to make sure that the children do a decent amount of GOOD SPIRITUAL READING as they grow up.  And I do find that there's a massive shortage of good spiritual reading for children of the in-between ages, from about 9-13 or so.  There are childrens' books about the faith targeted at kids about 5-7 years old, and then there's a big gap, and a jump up to things that are complex and difficult to read if you're not about 13 or 14.  Take the lives of the saints, for instance.  You can find books with little pictures written for 3, 4, and 5 year olds, but then the material jumps up to adult reading.  And, ironically, that time between when they first reach the age of reason until their teens are the MOST CRUCIAL and FORMATIVE of all the ages.  That's where kids are either won over to the faith or lost ... practically speaking since God's grace of course has no such limits.  I have thought about writing some books targeting that age range, but I haven't had the time given my duties in life.

    Offline Last Tradhican

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    Re: Indifference to the Faith at SSPX Chapels
    « Reply #55 on: February 08, 2021, 03:58:00 PM »
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  • ironically, that time between when they first reach the age of reason until their teens are the MOST CRUCIAL and FORMATIVE of all the ages.  That's where kids are either won over to the faith or lost ...
    Yes that has been exactly my observation. "to God the joy of my youth". In my long experience, if the parents do not LIVE the faith, when the children are old enough to go on their own, they will. It is too late then. This is why it is so sad when I see SSPX girls 10 years old already using makeup and wearing short dresses to mass. I know that they are lost, even at that age. even sadder is that the parents and priests see nothing wrong.


    Offline Matthew

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    Re: Indifference to the Faith at SSPX Chapels
    « Reply #56 on: February 10, 2021, 06:08:30 PM »
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  • From the Mailbag:


    Quote
    When Frs Hewko and Voigt were here, we spoke about the same things. We do not have a girls dorm here in Syracuse. Girls of high school age may come here and board with a few select families. Each of these families provide the girls with a very modest and morally traditional home life. There is no fraternization allowed at school - the Academy is segragated by gender and the high school boys and girls do not even pass in the hallways during school. All extra-curricular activities are gender exclusive.

    What we do see is a slacking and relaxing of dress, etc, when students go home for seasonal and summer breaks where they are frequently allowed access to electronics and perhaps, more permissive dress codes.  Anyone who sends their children to a school with the expectation that they will be converted from a modern lifestyle regardless of the environment and friends they return to at home are sadly mistaken.  The same is true for those who attend the various Dominican schools.  What is not practiced at home is soon lost.

    I have seen alumni return to visit in clothing that would never have been acceptable at school and the priests are consistently up-front and clear and non-tolerant in those situations.  So, from first hand experience, I would take issue with the inference that an otherwise morally traditional girl would return a boy-crazy, jeans-wearing girl by virtue of the fact of where she attended high school. The answer, in this case, lies much closer to home.

    V.F.

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    Offline Last Tradhican

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    Re: Indifference to the Faith at SSPX Chapels
    « Reply #57 on: February 10, 2021, 10:15:52 PM »
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  • Quote
    When Frs Hewko and Voigt were here, we spoke about the same things. We do not have a girls dorm here in Syracuse. Girls of high school age may come here and board with a few select families. Each of these families provide the girls with a very modest and morally traditional home life. There is no fraternization allowed at school - the Academy is segragated by gender and the high school boys and girls do not even pass in the hallways during school. All extra-curricular activities are gender exclusive.

    What we do see is a slacking and relaxing of dress, etc, when students go home for seasonal and summer breaks where they are frequently allowed access to electronics and perhaps, more permissive dress codes.  Anyone who sends their children to a school with the expectation that they will be converted from a modern lifestyle regardless of the environment and friends they return to at home are sadly mistaken.  The same is true for those who attend the various Dominican schools.  What is not practiced at home is soon lost.

    I have seen alumni return to visit in clothing that would never have been acceptable at school and the priests are consistently up-front and clear and non-tolerant in those situations.  So, from first hand experience, I would take issue with the inference that an otherwise morally traditional girl would return a boy-crazy, jeans-wearing girl by virtue of the fact of where she attended high school. The answer, in this case, lies much closer to home.V.F.
    It is good that they see the problem of immodest dress and behavior and they talk about it. That is not the case with the priests or the parents in my chapel (and according to Cathinfo's Mr. G, not the case in St. Mary's), where not a word has been spoken on the subject in 10+ years of decline.

    Offline Aleah

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    Re: Indifference to the Faith at SSPX Chapels
    « Reply #58 on: February 11, 2021, 05:28:18 AM »
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  • It is good that they see the problem of immodest dress and behavior and they talk about it. That is not the case with the priests or the parents in my chapel (and according to Cathinfo's Mr. G, not the case in St. Mary's), where not a word has been spoken on the subject in 10+ years of decline.
    The chapel I attend- it has not been discussed for many years. We do have a sign posted but not a word, otherwise. I wish something would be said.
    I am He who is- you are she who is not.

    Online Ladislaus

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    Re: Indifference to the Faith at SSPX Chapels
    « Reply #59 on: February 11, 2021, 05:32:23 AM »
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  • I know an Independent priest who would mention it from the pulpit.  After that, things improved ... for a short time.   Then, within a few weeks, things slid back.  So he'd mention it again.  At some point, he partly just gave up.