Author Topic: Independent chapel 20 min. from Boston, KY (Read 25628 times)

moneil · « **Reply #15 on:** October 18, 2015, 03:05:13 PM »

Quote from: Militia Jesu

Quote from: Matthew

I won't refrain from recommending this chapel. ("Feeneyite" though it be)

If being excommunicated by the Holy Office for denying Catholic Teaching (i.e Baptism of desire and blood) is something minimalist for your radar, I'd strongly recommend you upgrade your radar or to talk to a sound priest before promoting heretical places...

First, for "full disclosure" I am a registered parishioner in the Diocese of Spokane, WA, never miss Mass on Sunday, and 99% of the time what is available to me is a 1969 Missal Mass. I also believe and hold to EVERYTHING the Baltimore Catechism says on the Sacrament of Baptism. I ONLY mention this so that people will be aware of my background, and that I don't have a "pony in this race".

Father Leonard Feeney WAS NOT excommunicated for "denying Catholic Teaching"; he WAS excommunicated on February 13, 1953 by the Holy See "for persistent disobedience to legitimate Church authority due to his refusal to comply with the summons" (to appear before the Holy Office). He allowed himself to remain in this state until 1972 when he asked for, and received, reconciliation with the Church from Pope Paul VI, without having to retract his previous views or writings. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Leonard_Feeney

As Stubborn attended this chapel for several years yet was unaware it was "Feeneyite" (and he is a follower) they evidently are not "dogmatic" on the topic.

TKGS · « **Reply #16 on:** October 18, 2015, 03:06:40 PM »

I have virtually every sermon Fr. Bitzer preached at St. Joseph in Greenwood from 1991 through 2002. I've listened to most of them. From his preaching, one would never guess that he is a Feeneyite. He's never discussed the impossibility of Baptism of Desire in my presence, nor have I heard him say anything that would make me even think that he might be.

Is Feeneyism somehow highlighted at the chapel? How did the posters who say he's a Feeneyite know this? I'm just curious. Of course, I would assume that he is strictly by his association with Fr. Wathen whose book, Who Shall Ascend clearly demonstrates a Feeneyite mindset.

I just find it hard to believe that a man could preach for 11 years and not be able to be identified as a Feeneyist by his sermons yet it seems to be "common knowledge" today to the point that people would "warn" about it. Frankly, warnings about Feeneyism seems to me to be as stupid as warnings about sedevacantism or sedeplenism.

Paul FHC · « **Reply #17 on:** October 18, 2015, 03:16:58 PM »

So does a Catholic go to a heretical worship because he's pretty sure that nothing heretical will be said? That is certainly easier than staying home on Sundays.

Militia Jesu · « **Reply #18 on:** October 18, 2015, 03:27:56 PM »

Quote from: moneil

Quote from: Militia Jesu
Quote from: Matthew

I won't refrain from recommending this chapel. ("Feeneyite" though it be)

If being excommunicated by the Holy Office for denying Catholic Teaching (i.e Baptism of desire and blood) is something minimalist for your radar, I'd strongly recommend you upgrade your radar or to talk to a sound priest before promoting heretical places...

First, for "full disclosure" I am a registered parishioner in the Diocese of Spokane, WA, never miss Mass on Sunday, and 99% of the time what is available to me is a 1969 Missal Mass. I also believe and hold to EVERYTHING the Baltimore Catechism says on the Sacrament of Baptism. I ONLY mention this so that people will be aware of my background, and that I don't have a "pony in this race".

Father Leonard Feeney WAS NOT excommunicated for "denying Catholic Teaching"; he WAS excommunicated on February 13, 1953 by the Holy See "for persistent disobedience to legitimate Church authority due to his refusal to comply with the summons" (to appear before the Holy Office). He allowed himself to remain in this state until 1972 when he asked for, and received, reconciliation with the Church from Pope Paul VI, without having to retract his previous views or writings. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Leonard_Feeney

As Stubborn attended this chapel for several years yet was unaware it was "Feeneyite" (and he is a follower) they evidently are not "dogmatic" on the topic.

He was excommunicated by the Catholic Church under Pope Pius XII and was "reconciled" (without having to retract his previous views) to the Conciliar Church by Paul VI.

That's enough for me.

TKGS · « **Reply #19 on:** October 18, 2015, 04:28:22 PM »

Quote from: Paul FHC

So does a Catholic go to a heretical worship because he's pretty sure that nothing heretical will be said? That is certainly easier than staying home on Sundays.

My question is how does everyone seem to know for a fact that Fr. Bitzer is actually a Feeneyite to the extent that he is actually a heretic? I also question whether most people labeled as Feeneyites (especially by anonymous forum members) are actually heretics. I know from personal experience about being labeled an excommunicate by anonymous posters on forums. It happens on CathInfo with regularity.

Centroamerica · « **Reply #20 on:** October 18, 2015, 04:30:12 PM »

Quote from: moneil

Quote from: Militia Jesu
Quote from: Matthew

I won't refrain from recommending this chapel. ("Feeneyite" though it be)

If being excommunicated by the Holy Office for denying Catholic Teaching (i.e Baptism of desire and blood) is something minimalist for your radar, I'd strongly recommend you upgrade your radar or to talk to a sound priest before promoting heretical places...

First, for "full disclosure" I am a registered parishioner in the Diocese of Spokane, WA, never miss Mass on Sunday, and 99% of the time what is available to me is a 1969 Missal Mass. I also believe and hold to EVERYTHING the Baltimore Catechism says on the Sacrament of Baptism. I ONLY mention this so that people will be aware of my background, and that I don't have a "pony in this race".

Father Leonard Feeney WAS NOT excommunicated for "denying Catholic Teaching"; he WAS excommunicated on February 13, 1953 by the Holy See "for persistent disobedience to legitimate Church authority due to his refusal to comply with the summons" (to appear before the Holy Office). He allowed himself to remain in this state until 1972 when he asked for, and received, reconciliation with the Church from Pope Paul VI, without having to retract his previous views or writings. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Leonard_Feeney

As Stubborn attended this chapel for several years yet was unaware it was "Feeneyite" (and he is a follower) they evidently are not "dogmatic" on the topic.

So basically he knew his propositions were going to be condemned and tharted justice by Holy Mother Church. Doesn't sound like a person or a position to defend.

Skylar · « **Reply #21 on:** October 18, 2015, 05:38:13 PM »

Quote from: Patrick JK Gray

Quote from: Skylar
Nah,nah Our Lady of Pillar is Feenyite, but it's a good place. The faithful there are pious, decent folk. It is actually quite annoying for some people on here to say in ignorance that they need to be converted. They are good Catholics devoutly keeping the Faith. Fr. Hewko obviously needs some conversion unfortunately...

Beware of Feeneyism. Fr Leonard Feeney was condemned by the Holy Office in 1949 and excommunicated in '52 for denying Baptism of desire and of blood. In doing this he opposes approved authorities (the 'Summa', St Ambrose). His reconciliation with the conciliar church without having to abjure his heresy (the decree was never rescinded) only indicates to me that the Religion of Man will tolerate any species of error but not the True Faith.

Feeneyism is a particularly pernicious heresy, and Fr Feeney's a particularly sad fall, because it infests Catholics sound on other matters, e.g. an excellent grasp of the Church's doctrine on the Jєωs, avoiding both any sympathy for the chief enemy of the Church and yet holding out the light of the Faith to the darkened and ruined sons of Israel.

Sure, I'll look into it since I don't care about Feeneyism much.
To me as a person who has wandered in there on occasion, OLOP is fine because Father Bitzer doesn't pound about Feeneyism nor do the faithful speak of it except for one or two elderly folks. Am I missing something here?

2Vermont · « **Reply #22 on:** October 18, 2015, 05:55:09 PM »

Quote from: TKGS

I have virtually every sermon Fr. Bitzer preached at St. Joseph in Greenwood from 1991 through 2002. I've listened to most of them. From his preaching, one would never guess that he is a Feeneyite. He's never discussed the impossibility of Baptism of Desire in my presence, nor have I heard him say anything that would make me even think that he might be.

Is Feeneyism somehow highlighted at the chapel? How did the posters who say he's a Feeneyite know this? I'm just curious. Of course, I would assume that he is strictly by his association with Fr. Wathen whose book, Who Shall Ascend clearly demonstrates a Feeneyite mindset.

I just find it hard to believe that a man could preach for 11 years and not be able to be identified as a Feeneyist by his sermons yet it seems to be "common knowledge" today to the point that people would "warn" about it. Frankly, warnings about Feeneyism seems to me to be as stupid as warnings about sedevacantism or sedeplenism.

I can understand TKGS' concern if Fr Bitzer is not truly a Feeneyite. However, if he is and his attendants are, I still do not think his chapel should be on a list of recommended chapels...even if he doesn't preach Feeneyism from the pulpit.

OldMerry · « **Reply #23 on:** October 18, 2015, 06:07:50 PM »

Not that many seem much to care about Fr. Feeney truth, but the following has the history of their story. They wanted it out as the media and liberal Catholics ("pious frauds") - in lock-step with the condemned Modernist Church - would not give their efforts to defend Catholic Doctrine a fair hearing. They were quick to bury the Center and Fr. Feeney, as many here are quick to do. But - oh! - we must hear the story of Arch. Lefebvre, we must read about him and understand his point of view and give him fair time and etc. etc. Maybe God raises up other people besides the Archbishop - even just a "lowly" priest (who was considered the finest theologian in the US). Where is objectivity, a love of truth - and charity in this regard?? It is grievous to see how some people go at Fr. Feeney as though he is the second coming of Martin Luther. At least say that his intention was right. Pray, with detachment, to the Holy Ghost. You will see "the finger of God is here."

https://hieronymopolis.files.wordpress.com/2012/12/architects-of-confusion-scanned-by-hieronymopolis.pdf

To mention again, the original version of the Catechism of the Council of Trent has no mention of Bap. of Blood or Desire, but makes WATER an absolute necessity. It's what the Council of Trent says and it is of definition.

If St. Thomas Aquinas lived after the following definitions were made - he died in 1274 - it is assumed that as a Catholic and priest and teacher and preacher he would have dropped any "desire" theory he held --

#2 “We declare, say, define, and pronounce that it is absolutely necessary for the salvation of every human creature to be subject to the Roman Pontiff.” (Pope Boniface VIII, the Bull Unam Sanctam, 1302.)

#3 “The most Holy Roman Church firmly believes, professes and preaches that none of those existing outside the Catholic Church, not only pagans, but also Jєωs and heretics and schismatics, can have a share in life eternal; but that they will go into the eternal fire which was prepared for the devil and his angels, unless before death they are joined with Her; and that so important is the unity of this ecclesiastical body that only those remaining within this unity can profit by the sacraments of the Church unto salvation, and they alone can receive an eternal recompense for their fasts, their almsgivings, their other works of Christian piety and the duties of a Christian soldier. No one, let his almsgiving be as great as it may, no one, even if he pour out his blood for the Name of Christ, can be saved, unless he remain within the bosom and the unity of the Catholic Church.” (Pope Eugene IV, the Bull Cantate Domino, 1441.)

And thank God and Our Lady for OLOP and Fr. Bitzer.

OABrownson1876 · « **Reply #24 on:** October 18, 2015, 06:25:46 PM »

Fr. Feeney converted 100 Jєωs. How many Jєωs have you converted lately? He did not attempt to convert them by saying, "Oh, do not worry you good souls, if somehow baptism passes you up, in your sincerity, your good nature, your rejection of your falsehoods, God will save you." No, this courageous priest converted them by giving them the truth of all ages, "If you will be converted, receive the sacrament of Baptism." Do any of the liberal Catholics on this website honestly believe that St. Peter was crucified upside down because he preached Baptism of Desire? How many Catholics have read Mike Malone's book, "The Only Begotten," which is a defense of Fr. Feeney? The book has 2,000 footnotes from the fathers and theologians. My guess is none of you, with the exception of a few.

OldMerry · « **Reply #25 on:** October 18, 2015, 06:38:28 PM »

Bishop Williamson came to Our Lady of the Pillar and did Confirmations there about two years ago. He praised Fr. Bitzer and said his church was "very Catholic."

To TheRealMcCoy - How do you know Fr. Hewko tried to "convert" Fr. Bitzer? Did he tell you that - or are you just hoping?

Matto · « **Reply #26 on:** October 18, 2015, 06:40:01 PM »

The discussion has become about feeneyism which is usually isolated in its own subforum. I am in the middle of this debate. I believe in BOD and BOB but only for those who believe in the true faith and believe in the trinity and the incarnation. I do not believe people in false religions can be saved (as many many traditionalists believe). So I take flak from both sides because I am in the middle (though I must admit that I get more flak from the anti-feeneyites).

OABrownson1876 · « **Reply #27 on:** October 18, 2015, 06:42:56 PM »

Quote from: Matto

The discussion has become about feeneyism which is usually isolated in its own subforum. I am in the middle of this debate. I believe in BOD and BOB but only for those who believe in the true faith and believe in the trinity and the incarnation. I do not believe people in false religions can be saved (as many many traditionalists believe). So I take flak from both sides because I am in the middle.

One cannot be in the middle because our Redeemer said, "I will have you hot or cold."

Matto · « **Reply #28 on:** October 18, 2015, 06:45:41 PM »

Quote from: OABrownson1876

Quote from: Matto
The discussion has become about feeneyism which is usually isolated in its own subforum. I am in the middle of this debate. I believe in BOD and BOB but only for those who believe in the true faith and believe in the trinity and the incarnation. I do not believe people in false religions can be saved (as many many traditionalists believe). So I take flak from both sides because I am in the middle.

One cannot be in the middle because our Redeemer said, "I will have you hot or cold."

My beliefs are in the middle, but I do not believe it is being lukewarm. I just take the position of Saint Thomas Aquinas and Saint Alphonsus Liguori and many other saints. So according to you Saint Alphonsus Liguori (and the thousands of other saints who believed in BOD and BOB for those who believed in the trinity and incarnation) was lukewarm.

TheRealMcCoy · « **Reply #29 on:** October 18, 2015, 07:06:59 PM »

Quote from: TheRealMcCoy

Our Lady of the Pillar is Feeneyite. Staunchly so. Fr Hewko has tried to convert them. But some of the OLMC laity attend Mass there as well. I don't know anything other than that.

There is a Thuc line in Union, KY.

I never mentioned Fr Bitzer. I said "them". I'll let you figure out who I meant.