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Author Topic: In the Face of Roman Proposals (in English!)  (Read 699 times)

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Offline SeanJohnson

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In the Face of Roman Proposals (in English!)
« on: February 22, 2020, 12:21:18 PM »
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  • Traditional Catholic Musings (aka “Tradcatresist”) has just posted a link to a complete English translation of the 2018 book by the Capuchins of Morgan (France), “In the Face of Roman Proposals.”

    The book was presented to Bishop Fellay as an explanation of why there should be no practical accord with modernist Rome.

    Here is the announcement:
    http://tradcatresist.blogspot.com/2020/02/in-face-of-roman-proposals.html?m=1

    Here is the link to the English-language translation:
    https://www.docdroid.net/MJsWLKF/inthefaceofromanproposals.pdf
    Rom 5: 20 - "But where sin increased, grace abounded all the more."


    Offline BarbaraZ

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    Re: In the Face of Roman Proposals (in English!)
    « Reply #1 on: February 22, 2020, 01:00:03 PM »
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  • Thank you , Sean, for this post  !


    Offline Banezian

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    Re: In the Face of Roman Proposals (in English!)
    « Reply #2 on: February 22, 2020, 11:59:58 PM »
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  • The Morgon Capuchins are still with the Society 
    "For by grace you have been saved through faith. And this is not your own doing; it is the gift of God, not a result of works, so that no one may boast."
    Ephesians 2:8-9

    Offline SeanJohnson

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    Re: In the Face of Roman Proposals (in English!)
    « Reply #3 on: February 23, 2020, 09:07:27 AM »
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  • The Morgon Capuchins are still with the Society

    Better to say the Capuchins oppose these Society, but fear to lose the financial and vocational support, and therefore still have recourse to the SSPX bishops for sacraments.

    Yet it is undeniable the Capuchins have vacillated for years.

    They fear to suffer the same punishment of their more courageous colleagues in Avrille (and more recently the Benedictines of Bellaigue).

    Regarding these latter, will they have recourse to Bishop Faure, or hang an “out of business” sign on the front door?
    Rom 5: 20 - "But where sin increased, grace abounded all the more."

    Offline Mr G

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    Re: In the Face of Roman Proposals (in English!)
    « Reply #4 on: February 23, 2020, 03:37:37 PM »
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  • Better to say the Capuchins oppose these Society, but fear to lose the financial and vocational support, and therefore still have recourse to the SSPX bishops for sacraments.


    Actually they have lost official support from the SSPX, an SSPX priests had informed us that priests are no longer to recommend/encourage or suggest potential vocations to Morgon or any of the French male religious monasteries.


    Offline Banezian

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    Re: In the Face of Roman Proposals (in English!)
    « Reply #5 on: February 23, 2020, 04:14:20 PM »
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  • Actually they have lost official support from the SSPX, an SSPX priests had informed us that priests are no longer to recommend/encourage or suggest potential vocations to Morgon or any of the French male religious monasteries.
    When did the priest inform you? My priest told me a couple weeks back that it’d be fine to consider them


    https://fsspx.news/fr/sermon-de-mgr-de-galarreta-lors-des-ordinations-du-28-juin-2019-a-econe-suisse
    "For by grace you have been saved through faith. And this is not your own doing; it is the gift of God, not a result of works, so that no one may boast."
    Ephesians 2:8-9

    Offline Banezian

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    Re: In the Face of Roman Proposals (in English!)
    « Reply #6 on: February 23, 2020, 04:35:45 PM »
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  • Actually they have lost official support from the SSPX, an SSPX priests had informed us that priests are no longer to recommend/encourage or suggest potential vocations to Morgon or any of the French male religious monasteries.
    And if what you say were true, Morgon would not be listed as a community on the French SSPX website
    http://laportelatine.org/ordres/ordlatin/religieux.php
    "For by grace you have been saved through faith. And this is not your own doing; it is the gift of God, not a result of works, so that no one may boast."
    Ephesians 2:8-9

    Offline Mr G

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    Re: In the Face of Roman Proposals (in English!)
    « Reply #7 on: February 23, 2020, 04:43:02 PM »
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  • When did the priest inform you? My priest told me a couple weeks back that it’d be fine to consider them


    https://fsspx.news/fr/sermon-de-mgr-de-galarreta-lors-des-ordinations-du-28-juin-2019-a-econe-suisse
    I believe it was in 2018. As for your link, the SSPX has not  cut off relations with the Morgon and the other French male monasteries (except the Dominicans, as we all know) but they have cut off their recommendations to these religious groups. I am glad to hear that your priests had not discouraged you, however they do so on their own and against the directives of their superior - at least as was told to the priests in the USA at that particular priests meeting.


    Offline SeanJohnson

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    Re: In the Face of Roman Proposals (in English!)
    « Reply #8 on: February 23, 2020, 04:52:32 PM »
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  • I suspect Banezian and Mr. G could both be correct:

    Because the Capuchins have vacillated so much over the years, it is very possible that at various points the SSPX refused to reccomend Morgon to potential vocations (e.g., after the sermon of Fr. Jean; again with Bishop Fellay refusing to ordain their deacons in 2013 until their personal loyalty could be ascertained; again after the publication of the book in the OP of this thread, which would be in 2018, to which Mr. G refers to; etc.).

    But after each of those strong stands, all Bishop Fellay ever had to do was make a threat, and the Capuchins were quickly brought into line.

    There hasn't been much noise from them since this book appeared, and consequently, many in the SSPX may be of the opinion that Morgon has been once more brought into line with official SSPX policy.  

    Compare, however, Morgon remaining on the La Porte Latine website (i.e., for having allowed themselves to be silenced and docile to an SSPX which has no jurisdiction over it, but which is the only thing making Morgon financially viable, and who depends completely for vocations upon Menzingen for recommending young men to them), with the recent erasure of the Benedictines of Bellaigue, who no longer appear on the website.

    So the way I see it, Bellaigue is OFFICIALLY banished, while Morgon (despite some intermittent flare-ups of Lefebvrian SSPXism) is still unable/unwilling to risk official rupture with the SSPX (even though they do not support the new direction at all, as the book makes abundantly clear).

    PS: I have long wondered what position former French District superior, Fr. Regis de Cacqueray, holds since having become a Capuchin in Morgon several years ago:  Is he a strengthening force, opposing the liberal drift of the SSPX, or, is he a weakening force within tht community, trying to keep them attached to Bishop Fellay's ralliement?  I suspect I will never know the answer.
    Rom 5: 20 - "But where sin increased, grace abounded all the more."