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Author Topic: Impressive Silence: The SSPX Bishops  (Read 43814 times)

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Offline augustineeens

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Re: Impressive Silence: The SSPX Bishops
« Reply #75 on: July 08, 2022, 12:38:34 AM »
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  • This is sad to see, but very revealing of what motivates people to continue to cling to false positions.



    Offline SeanJohnson

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    Re: Impressive Silence: The SSPX Bishops
    « Reply #76 on: July 08, 2022, 12:54:55 AM »
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  • Saying that he preferred to wait (that maybe if Assisi takes place he'd become a sedevacantist) Johnson spins as "rejecting sedevacantism".  :laugh1:  Right after the Archbishop said this about himself and Bishop de Castro Mayer, the latter was going around telling everyone present at the consecrations that "We have no pope."

    What an absolutely dishonest liar.

    Prefer to wait, as in, until the Church declares that God has deposed the pope?

    Oops, almost forgot to follow your lead with an emotionalized accusation:

    What an absolute dishonest sodomite Ladislaus is.
    Rom 5: 20 - "But where sin increased, grace abounded all the more."


    Offline SeanJohnson

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    Re: Impressive Silence: The SSPX Bishops
    « Reply #77 on: July 08, 2022, 12:59:49 AM »
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  • It's quite clear that he's NOT talking about the sedevacantists ... since that accusation against them, that they hold the pope to be of no importance as long as they have the Mass and Sacraments, would be absurd.  It's precisely because they recognize the importance of the pope that they are sedevacantists in the first place.  This isn't the first, nor will it be the last, time that Sean warps something to mean the opposite of what it actually says to make it conform to his narrative.

    What a moron.

    :facepalm:
    Rom 5: 20 - "But where sin increased, grace abounded all the more."

    Offline LeDeg

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    Re: Impressive Silence: The SSPX Bishops
    « Reply #78 on: July 08, 2022, 01:15:43 AM »
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  • Sean, you are an embarrassing excuse of a man. Hitting the bottle tonight?
    "You must train harder than the enemy who is trying to kill you. You will get all the rest you need in the grave."- Leon Degrelle

    Offline bodeens

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    Re: Impressive Silence: The SSPX Bishops
    « Reply #79 on: July 08, 2022, 01:36:34 AM »
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  • I am praying for you, Sean :pray:
    Regard all of my posts as unfounded slander, heresy, theologically specious etc
    I accept Church teaching on Implicit Baptism of Desire.
    Francis is Pope.
    NO is a good Mass.
    Not an ironic sig.


    Offline bodeens

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    Re: Impressive Silence: The SSPX Bishops
    « Reply #80 on: July 08, 2022, 05:30:41 AM »
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  • Thank you, Sean, for defending Archbishop Lefebvre against the sedevacantists. You are apparently the only one on the forum willing to do so. This forum is now a full-on sede forum, with little tolerance for a non-sede POV.
    Hey Meg...

    Hi, I'm new to the forum. I'm a regular on FE, but given the recent scandal there, I'm not sure if I can go back there. I would like to participate on a forum where Catholics are serious about their faith.
    However, I'm not really a fan of the SSPX, so I'll avoid those topics which have to do with the SSPX, or Sedevacantism. If I do posts in those sections, remind me that I said I wouldn't!

    God bless!
    Just a reminder!
    Regard all of my posts as unfounded slander, heresy, theologically specious etc
    I accept Church teaching on Implicit Baptism of Desire.
    Francis is Pope.
    NO is a good Mass.
    Not an ironic sig.

    Offline 2Vermont

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    Re: Impressive Silence: The SSPX Bishops
    « Reply #81 on: July 08, 2022, 05:59:12 AM »
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  • Prefer to wait, as in, until the Church declares that God has deposed the pope?

    Where do you get that from this?

    What conclusion must we draw in a few months if we are confronted by these repeated acts of partaking in false worship? I don't know. I wonder. But I think the Pope can do nothing worse than call together a meeting of all religions, when we know there is only one true religion and all other religions belong to the devil. So perhaps after this famous meeting of Assisi, perhaps we must say that the Pope is a heretic, is apostate. Now I don't wish yet to say it formally and solemnly, but it seems at first sight that it is impossible for a Pope to be publicly and formally heretical. Our Lord has promised to be with him, to keep his faith, to keep him in the Faith—how can he at the same time be a public heretic and virtually apostatize? So it is possible we may be obliged to believe this pope is not pope.


    For twenty years, Msgr. de Castro-Mayer and I preferred to wait; we said it was more prudent and more in conformity with Providence to wait because it is so important, so tragic, when it is not just a bishop, archbishop or cardinal, but the man in the chair of Peter. It is so important, so grave, so sad, that we prefer to wait until Providence gives us such evidence, that it is no longer possible to refuse to say that the Pope is a heretic. So, to say that I think we are waiting for the famous meeting in Assisi, if God allows it!

    Offline 2Vermont

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    Re: Impressive Silence: The SSPX Bishops
    « Reply #82 on: July 08, 2022, 06:10:21 AM »
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  • This is what I love about sedes, and what convinced me to read what they have to say: they always cite the sources, they always back up their claims, no novelty, no made-up definitions of indefectibility.

    After isolating the claims made by Schneider in his rant against sedevacantism I identified at least 8 pure factual falsehoods. This really made an impression on me and I realized why sedes always get called out for "out-of-context" quotes, because the opposition can't refute them so they have to make stuff up, like that John XXII taught heresy.
    Thanks.  It drives me crazy when people go back and forth about the meaning of a quote without bothering to look up the full quote and provide evidence for their position.  Since I was unsure myself about the meaning of the partial quote [although it seemed fairly obvious that ABL couldn't have been speaking of sede priests], I thought I'd check it out.  I'm not sure if that's because I am sede or just because that's how I roll.


    Offline SeanJohnson

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    Re: Impressive Silence: The SSPX Bishops
    « Reply #83 on: July 08, 2022, 06:35:27 AM »
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  • I am praying for you, Sean :pray:

    The sede cries in pain as he strikes you!
    Rom 5: 20 - "But where sin increased, grace abounded all the more."

    Offline Ladislaus

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    Re: Impressive Silence: The SSPX Bishops
    « Reply #84 on: July 08, 2022, 06:38:18 AM »
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  • I demand a retraction of this slander.  Whenever you lose an argument, you melt down like this.

    So, earlier you slandered me by claiming that i was accusing St. Pius X of simony because he used the term stipend for Mass intentions.  Did you ever retract that slander?

    Now you're calling me a sodomite?  Because you're losing an argument?

    Offline DecemRationis

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    Re: Impressive Silence: The SSPX Bishops
    « Reply #85 on: July 08, 2022, 06:49:45 AM »
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  • Firstly, what “TLM churches within the Novus Ordo structure” could he be referring to in 1986 who could say “we have the true faith, the true sacraments, true doctrine???”

    Since none of them could (or would, as diocesan priests) make such claims, he is obviously not speaking of them.

    Nor is he speaking of any indult groups, since the quote predates all of them.

    There’s only one other group left, guys.

    And as regards the claim that the Lefebvre quote “only mentions sedevacantism once...and not in relation to that part of the quote,” you are clearly mistaken:

    After describing and rejecting sedevacantism, the next paragraph continues the subject, with Lefebvre explaining that he and Castro de Mayer “have preferred to wait,” and shortly thereafter goes on to lament that “some priests” (sedes being the only ones left), and “even some in the Society” have taken this position.

    He’s clearly speaking of two groups of priests (one outside the Society, and even a few within), but to suggest Lefebvre is talking here about conciliar priests is clearly false:

    The quote, syntax, context, and common sense make it obvious he’s speaking of one group outside the Society (which is obviously not diocesan priests), at a time when there was only one other position he could be speaking of (the full quote making clear, along with the process of elimination, that it is the sedes).

    The full quote makes that even more obvious.

    Sean,

    First, here's the main quote from the Archbishop:


    Quote
    Now some priests (even some priests in the Society) say that we Catholics need not worry about what is happening in the Vatican; we have the true sacraments, the true Mass, the true doctrine, so why worry about whether the Pope is a heretic or an imposter or whatever; it is of no importance to us. But I think that is not true.

    While 2Vermont in her words characterized ABL's position as "TLM Churches within the Novus Ordo Structure," ABL didn't say that: he said, "some priests (even some priests in the Society) . . . say we need not worry about the pope" because we have the sacraments, etc.  I can think of non-society priests that celebrated the TLM who were not Sede - e.g., Father Wathen and Fr. DePaul come to mind. If there were only two non-Sede "priests" outside the Society who said the TLM, your argument falls apart: I gave you two.

    And the characterization of ABL would be accurate about Fr. Wathen and Fr. DePaul in so much as they do in effect say, "we have the true faith and practice it," so the "pope problem" is not a radical problem for the Church since the Catholic faith survives in the Church (us). Obviously ABL's position is different, as he sees that if the pope were in fact a heretic that would be a radical problem for the Church.

    I also think of Fr. Hesse, who basically said that the V2 and the Conciliar popes taught heresy, but it did not pose a radical problem for the Church, which remained pure and unstained in its true faith and doctrine handed down from Tradition and adhered to by living, faithful Catholics who attended the TML, etc.

    In any event, I do not see ABL's comments above as referring to Sedes.

    DR




    Rom. 3:25 Whom God hath proposed to be a propitiation, through faith in his blood, to the shewing of his justice, for the remission of former sins" 

    Apoc 17:17 For God hath given into their hearts to do that which pleaseth him: that they give their kingdom to the beast, till the words of God be fulfilled.


    Offline SeanJohnson

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    Re: Impressive Silence: The SSPX Bishops
    « Reply #86 on: July 08, 2022, 07:14:18 AM »
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  • In any event, I do not see ABL's comments above as referring to Sedes.

    DR





    Except that the article is talking about sedes, and nowhere in the article is there anything so much as alluding to independents.

    Carry on!
    Rom 5: 20 - "But where sin increased, grace abounded all the more."

    Offline augustineeens

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    Re: Impressive Silence: The SSPX Bishops
    « Reply #87 on: July 08, 2022, 07:46:45 AM »
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  • Not until Loudestmouth retracts and apologizes for his continual accusations of me being a liar.

    One good turn deserves another, and from here on out, every time Loudestmouth gratuitously accuses me of sin, I’ll do the same for him.

    I have no doubt that you are even more repulsed by Loudestmouth’s continual slanders, and that all the sedes here are praying for him even more then me, which shows your honesty ;)
    The irony in this is, that even if he were wrong in calling you a liar (which I don't think he was, given your previous blatant dishonesty), you have proven this to be true, by telling a lie in a public forum that he is a sodomite.

    Offline SeanJohnson

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    Re: Impressive Silence: The SSPX Bishops
    « Reply #88 on: July 08, 2022, 07:48:26 AM »
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  • Sean, come on, how do you equate accusing someone of lying (which is all too common on forums) with calling someone a fag? Yeah, I wouldn’t accuse you of lying, but I certainly think you stretched the truth quite a bit with what you claimed.

    Please don’t get angry with me for pointing this out, I really don’t want to get into it with you again. God bless you.

    Im not angry with you QVD.

    Seems pretty obvious Lefebvre is talking about sedes, and like you, I have to wonder WHY someone wouldn’t admit it.

    But as far as Lad goes, this is years-long habitual behavior typical of him pretty much every time someone disagrees with him.  I’m just trying to make a point by putting him on the receiving end of unjust accusations, in the hopes he will finally understand, and amend.

    Its not necessary to impute bad disposition to your interlocutor, and usually indicates you have lost the argument.
    Rom 5: 20 - "But where sin increased, grace abounded all the more."

    Offline epiphany

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    Re: Impressive Silence: The SSPX Bishops
    « Reply #89 on: July 08, 2022, 09:04:57 AM »
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  • I demand a retraction of this slander.  Whenever you lose an argument, you melt down like this.

    So, earlier you slandered me by claiming that i was accusing St. Pius X of simony because he used the term stipend for Mass intentions.  Did you ever retract that slander?

    Now you're calling me a sodomite?  Because you're losing an argument?
    I was taught that someone knows he has lost the argument when he resorts to name-calling.