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Author Topic: Impressive Silence: The SSPX Bishops  (Read 28136 times)

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Offline SeanJohnson

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Impressive Silence: The SSPX Bishops
« on: July 01, 2022, 06:33:39 AM »
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    • Is it just me, or have the SSPX bishops been unusually quiet these last few months?

    I scoured the three main SSPX websites, and couldn’t find a single recent article, interview, or conference from any of them.

    I don’t just mean unbranded content, but even fully branded content is absent.

    So I went over to La Porte Latine (main French District website), and all I found there was a little blurb about Bishop Fellay playing a horn in the mountains.

    It seems as though there is a deliberate public posture of silence coming from these bishops.  If that is true, what is the reason for it?
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    Offline Quo vadis Domine

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    Re: Impressive Silence: The SSPX Bishops
    « Reply #1 on: July 01, 2022, 07:09:28 AM »
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    • Quote from: SeanJohnson on July 01, 2022, 06:33:39 AM
    Is it just me, or have the SSPX bishops been unusually quiet these last few months?

    I scoured the three main SSPX websites, and couldn’t find a single recent article, interview, or conference from any of them.

    I don’t just mean unbranded content, but even fully branded content is absent.

    So I went over to La Porte Latine (main French District website), and all I found there was a little blurb about Bishop Fellay playing a horn in the mountains.

    It seems as though there is a deliberate public posture of silence coming from these bishops.  If that is true, what is the reason for it?

    Reticence = no controversy = no problems with the NO church?
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    Offline Mr G

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    Re: Impressive Silence: The SSPX Bishops
    « Reply #2 on: July 01, 2022, 07:13:04 AM »
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    • Quote from: SeanJohnson on July 01, 2022, 06:33:39 AM
    Is it just me, or have the SSPX bishops been unusually quiet these last few months?
    ....  If that is true, what is the reason for it?
    Maybe they have been vaxed and are not feeling too well.
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    Offline SeanJohnson

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    Re: Impressive Silence: The SSPX Bishops
    « Reply #3 on: July 01, 2022, 07:42:24 AM »
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    • Quote from: Quo vadis Domine on July 01, 2022, 07:09:28 AM
    Reticence = no controversy = no problems with the NO church?

    I was wondering if it was something along those lines.

    In the same vein, I also wondered if the silence of the bishops was a strategy to avoid the appearance of schism, and demonstrate their subordination to the district superiors and SG.

    Its all conjecture, of course, but I just don’t recall such a long period of total silence from the bishops.

    Maybe there’s stuff out there that I’m missing?
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    Offline Quo vadis Domine

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    Re: Impressive Silence: The SSPX Bishops
    « Reply #4 on: July 01, 2022, 08:09:39 AM »
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    • Quote from: SeanJohnson on July 01, 2022, 07:42:24 AM
    I was wondering if it was something along those lines.

    In the same vein, I also wondered if the silence of the bishops was a strategy to avoid the appearance of schism, and demonstrate their subordination to the district superiors and SG.

    Its all conjecture, of course, but I just don’t recall such a long period of total silence from the bishops.

    Maybe there’s stuff out there that I’m missing?


    You make a point that is very possible in my estimation.
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    Offline Plenus Venter

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    Re: Impressive Silence: The SSPX Bishops
    « Reply #5 on: July 01, 2022, 08:24:31 AM »
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    • Last few months, or last few +++ years ?
    I have been decrying the fact for several years now.
    The bishops are the teachers in the Church. We used to hear constantly from the four bishops. Their sermons and writings were everywhere in the SSPX and traditional media, strengthening us in the faith, putting us on our guard against the modernists. Now they are nowhere to be heard. Instead of being a light on the hilltop, they are hiding their light under the bushel. Archbishop Vigano is putting them to shame. What a pity he has no support in those who should have been there to encourage him. What a great mystery. Archbishop Lefebvre would weep...
    I thought their silence following the recent consecration of Russia and the Ukraine by Pope Francis was one of the greatest scandals we have seen in the SSPX, clearly demonstrating that the SSPX salt has lost its savour. Instead of the bishops speaking out clearly on this crucial issue, all we saw was an anonymous 'communique from the General House' rejoicing, leaving us to believe that the consecration of Russia as requested by Our Lady at Fatima had taken place.
    The bishops, just like the priests, have agreed to be silent. Just concentrate on the spiritual life!
    Do you remember that artilce in the Angelus, 2012 or 2013, the title was something like "Is the SSPX Being Muzzled"? It was an interview with Bishop Fellay. In the interview he made this statement: "Rome has asked that we criticize less, and I agree"! It was all downhill from there...
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    Offline Giovanni Berto

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    Re: Impressive Silence: The SSPX Bishops
    « Reply #6 on: July 01, 2022, 08:31:57 AM »
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    • As far as I know, the only reason for these gentlemen to be Bishops is to provide the sacraments to the faithful.

    They are only "sacramental Bishops". The hold no office in the Church, so they are not "to teach" like an ordinary diocesan Bishop would in normal times.

    Since Bp. Fellay is no longer Superior General, they three Bishops have no reason to be in the news. Their work is to provide the sacraments, which they have been doing as usual.

    This is the way I see it.
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    Offline Quo vadis Domine

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    Re: Impressive Silence: The SSPX Bishops
    « Reply #7 on: July 01, 2022, 08:36:42 AM »
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    • Quote from: Giovanni Berto on July 01, 2022, 08:31:57 AM
    As far as I know, the only reason for these gentlemen to be Bishops is to provide the sacraments to the faithful.

    They are only "sacramental Bishops". The hold no office in the Church, so they are not "to teach" like an ordinary diocesan Bishop would in normal times.

    Since Bp. Fellay is no longer Superior General, they three Bishops have no reason to be in the news. Their work is to provide the sacraments, which they have been doing as usual.

    This is the way I see it.

    Well put!
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    Offline Gloria Tibi Domine

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    Re: Impressive Silence: The SSPX Bishops
    « Reply #8 on: July 01, 2022, 08:57:55 AM »
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    •    So, they can't give catechism class because they have no official office in the church? So, they can't teach about the sacraments conferred by them? Bishops are shepherds of the church all the time. Part of their responsibility is to warn the church of the dangers to salvation facing Catholics.  Silence on their part is deafening and is a great help to the enemy.
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    Offline Jaycie

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    Re: Impressive Silence: The SSPX Bishops
    « Reply #9 on: July 01, 2022, 09:08:34 AM »
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    • The SSPX weren't so silent when it was time to push the abortion tainted kill shots on their followers.  
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    Offline SeanJohnson

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    Re: Impressive Silence: The SSPX Bishops
    « Reply #10 on: July 01, 2022, 10:20:54 AM »
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    • Quote from: Giovanni Berto on July 01, 2022, 08:31:57 AM
    As far as I know, the only reason for these gentlemen to be Bishops is to provide the sacraments to the faithful.

    They are only "sacramental Bishops". The hold no office in the Church, so they are not "to teach" like an ordinary diocesan Bishop would in normal times.

    Since Bp. Fellay is no longer Superior General, they three Bishops have no reason to be in the news. Their work is to provide the sacraments, which they have been doing as usual.

    This is the way I see it.

    Although it is true, as you say, that the SSPX bishops have no office, I’m not sure I would conclude from that that they cannot or should not teach publicly.

    if that were the case, then it would apply to every bishop (sede and RR) from the time of Lefebvre until today.

    Even the uncensured Vigano would be prohibited, as would all emeritus bishops (eg., Castro de Mayer in the 1970’s).

    it would also mean that, during St. Athanasius’s various excommunication, during which he held no office, he was prohibited from teaching.

    There is a deeper question lurking here regarding the limits of supplied jurisdiction:

    If it is true, as +de Mallerais taught, that supplied jurisdiction springs from the request of the faithful, and these faithful may make such a request for “any just cause” (eg., spiritual benefit), and that this supplied jurisdiction pertains not only to sacramental acts, but to the entire priestly ministry (because jurisdiction is for souls, and not souls for jurisdiction), then why should teaching be prohibited?

    Does not the example of Athanasius and others show that Tissier and the old SSPX is correct? 

    What other explanation is there for Athanasius?

    This is my main reason for wanting to translate Dom Adrien Grea’s book on extraordinary manifestations of episcopal power, in the hope it will shed light on this disputed subject.
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    Offline trento

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    Re: Impressive Silence: The SSPX Bishops
    « Reply #11 on: July 01, 2022, 11:21:11 AM »
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    • I would put it to Bishop Fellay no longer being SG. But it's not true that we no longer hear from the bishops. Their sermons during confirmations and ordinations are still available for those who care to listen.
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    Offline Giovanni Berto

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    Re: Impressive Silence: The SSPX Bishops
    « Reply #12 on: July 01, 2022, 10:43:23 PM »
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    • Quote from: SeanJohnson on July 01, 2022, 10:20:54 AM
    Although it is true, as you say, that the SSPX bishops have no office, I’m not sure I would conclude from that that they cannot or should not teach publicly.

    if that were the case, then it would apply to every bishop (sede and RR) from the time of Lefebvre until today.

    Even the uncensured Vigano would be prohibited, as would all emeritus bishops (eg., Castro de Mayer in the 1970’s).

    it would also mean that, during St. Athanasius’s various excommunication, during which he held no office, he was prohibited from teaching.

    There is a deeper question lurking here regarding the limits of supplied jurisdiction:

    If it is true, as +de Mallerais taught, that supplied jurisdiction springs from the request of the faithful, and these faithful may make such a request for “any just cause” (eg., spiritual benefit), and that this supplied jurisdiction pertains not only to sacramental acts, but to the entire priestly ministry (because jurisdiction is for souls, and not souls for jurisdiction), then why should teaching be prohibited?

    Does not the example of Athanasius and others show that Tissier and the old SSPX is correct? 

    What other explanation is there for Athanasius?

    This is my main reason for wanting to translate Dom Adrien Grea’s book on extraordinary manifestations of episcopal power, in the hope it will shed light on this disputed subject.
    You raise interesting points.

    I believe that this is one of those things that have no final answer, and will remain disputed until God intervenes and ends this terrible crisis.

    One thing to consider though, is that, the more traditionalist Bishops act like regular, office holding bishops, the more they look schismatic.

    You solve a problem and create another.

    I've  just remembered Cardinal Burke's accusation of the SSPX being schismatic. It is obviously absurd, since he is talking from the "wrong side", but there is some logic to it.

    Abp. Lefebvre was careful not to assign the Bishops to any particular territories to avoid this kind of accusation. He knew that it was something to consider, this schismatic aspect of the "Bishops without office" that he was kind of inventing. 
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    Offline epiphany

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    Re: Impressive Silence: The SSPX Bishops
    « Reply #13 on: July 01, 2022, 11:04:00 PM »
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    • "Impressive Silence: The SSPX Bishops"

    I am glad for the silence.
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    Offline richard

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    Re: Impressive Silence: The SSPX Bishops
    « Reply #14 on: July 02, 2022, 09:03:04 AM »
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    • Silence can be loud.
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