[Ethelred]

I don't agree with Clare in relation to this.
[..]
Also Patricius would have us believe His Lordship and the two priests are dividing the Society. Menzingen and Bishop Fellay are not winning anything and it is they, and they alone, who have departed from the principles of the Archbishop. I certainly distance myself from Patricius comments. It's Bishop Fellay and his gang, who are selling out.

Sounds like Ignis is reverting back to a neutral, quiet life position after its campaign against Krah and hardline initiatives. And to create balance, the Fellay fan club are invited back. If Bp. W is now going to be the bogey man there, I wonder if that is representative of the UK district.

The two administrators of Ignis Ardens (IA), Patricius and Clare, are both liberal Catholics. So it was no surprise that past April 2012, when the SSPX leadership's betrayal was openly visible to everybody, both stated: "We support all four (SSPX) bishops."

This is a typical delusional liberal motto. Coming from the administration of IA, it's also the reason why IA always have been and still is a ticking time bomb. I'm surprised that a number of anti-liberal Catholics bothers to participate on IA at all. Searching for more fights? For more liberals? For more blah-blah? Oh, but we've got already enough, don't we?

I know there's certain tensions between the British and the so called Yankees (*). And obviously many Yankees are much more sentimental than the typical continental Europeans, which is not always easy for us (Europeans). But by now I know that a good amount of American traditional Catholics are certainly very anti-liberal, and that's why they oppose the typical Neo-SSPX superiors like Fr Rostand so nicely, when many European SSPX districts just accept the unacceptable.



(*) Please listen to Bishop Williamson's conference in Bristol from 22-24 June 2012. The Youtube links were mentioned many times here on Cathinfo. At one point (around the middle IIRC) the bishop characterises the different nations participating in the SSPX with a few words. He mentions the English, the French, the Swiss, the Germans, and some more. "Very, very" (© BpF) telling. :-)

[John Grace]

The two administrators of Ignis Ardens (IA), Patricius and Clare, are both liberal Catholics. So it was no surprise that past April 2012, when the SSPX leadership's betrayal was openly visible to everybody, both stated: "We support all four (SSPX) bishops

Patricius and Clare are not in the best of health and we should be mindful of this. It's nothing personal. I stand corrected but was told many of the parents sending their children to the Society school in the UK are very pro-Capitalist types.

The English lack the fighting spirit for certain. I have met resisting types in Britain but they seem to be a minority.

With parts of England gone due to mass-immigration, there are deeper issues to be examined. We need to pray for the conversion of England.

A few years ago a Dorothy Banks took Bishop Williamson to task or  Carol Byrne.Strange people.

(*) Please listen to Bishop Williamson's conference in Bristol from 22-24 June 2012. The Youtube links were mentioned many times here on Cathinfo. At one point (around the middle IIRC) the bishop characterises the different nations participating in the SSPX with a few words. He mentions the English, the French, the Swiss, the Germans, and some more. "Very, very" (© BpF) telling. :-)

Good advice, Ethelred.

The English must be commended for that letter to Bishop Fellay though. There is resistance in England but the English folk are different to the Irish and others.

[Francisco]

I don't agree with Clare in relation to this.
http://cathinfo-warning-pornography!/Ignis_Ardens/index.php?showtopic=11069&st=25

“Yes, except people have different ideas about what constitutes "nonsense".
But it's not nonsense which has been the main problem.It has been behaviour.
And, from what I have observed, the worst behaviour has come from the GOO side (whose side I am on, incidentally). I've winced much more at comments made by GOOs than I have at those of Accordistas. Maybe it's because I would like the side I am on to behave better.
I also do not think it is fair to accuse certain members of being "trolls".If they are trolls, then the long-standing, well-respected members who have stopped posting on account of some of the things said here would also be regarded as trolls. They didn't quit because of the Accordistas.”

GOO? What's that? Trivializing those who do not support BpF/who don't want a deal?

[Wessex]

It's nothing personal. I stand corrected but was told many of the parents sending their children to the Society school in the UK are very pro-Capitalist types.

The English lack the fighting spirit for certain. I have met resisting types in Britain but they seem to be a minority.

And I bet they vote Conservative as well. No conspiracy theory politics for them! But, traditionally, so-called religious schools cream off the children of business people seeking to separate them socially from the rest even if they themselves are not religious. In fact they are quite happy to be part of a prosperous society! Which contributes to making the Christian life always an ideal and never a reality.

The English regard religion as something apart and then only show interest in its cultural value when it suits them. The dying country parish scene is a product of generational neglect but there has never ever been much deep religious conviction as found in America and Europe. I wonder whether ABL was shocked when he found this to be the case and therefore maintained a UK small operation.

We must not assume Bp. Williamson to be the English Catholic model.  He is an exception. His background is either protestant or atheist; few Catholics here are of the establishment and are prey to an assortment of deranged clergy. Trads are of an higher order but prefer to hide in the background. No restoration here this side of a Mars landing.

[John Grace]

And I bet they vote Conservative as well

There will always be those who leave the Tory party but the Tory party never leaves them. A reality.

[ancien regime]

(*) Please listen to Bishop Williamson's conference in Bristol from 22-24 June 2012. The Youtube links were mentioned many times here on Cathinfo. At one point (around the middle IIRC) the bishop characterises the different nations participating in the SSPX with a few words. He mentions the English, the French, the Swiss, the Germans, and some more. "Very, very" (© BpF) telling. :-)

It can be found on "Rome - 6" at minute 14:25.

[Faber]

(*) Please listen to Bishop Williamson's conference in Bristol from 22-24 June 2012. The Youtube links were mentioned many times here on Cathinfo. At one point (around the middle IIRC) the bishop characterises the different nations participating in the SSPX with a few words. He mentions the English, the French, the Swiss, the Germans, and some more. "Very, very" (© BpF) telling. :-)

It can be found on "Rome - 6" at minute 14:25.

How much influence does national background have on the position of the Society as it is?  If, say, the majority of priests were Italian or Japanese, to what extent do you think that affects them?

Well, national background influences a good deal.  The English are bloody-minded.    They’re all just bloody-minded.  The Swiss tend to negotiate.  They want to be neutral.    They want to arrange things always so that they stay out of the war, so there’s an instinct of neutrality there.  They’re not lacking in courage but they have an instinct of neutrality, the Swiss.  The French - St Joan of Arc said they’re light but generous.  They’re not serious enough but they are generous, so the French are frivolous in a way.  That was her description.  You could describe the French in many ways.  Archbishop Lefebvre was French.  There’s the French at their very best.  At their worst they’re very nationalistic and narrow.  At their best they are completely international in the true sense, not in the Masonic sense of being international.  The Germans are again different.  They’re a driving force wherever they are and whatever they do.  The German contribution to the finances of the Church is very important.  Germany and America, to a great extent, finance the Church, apparently.  National character certainly is important, yes.  It’s not decisive but it’s very important.  God created the nations.  God made the nations different, and God does not want national differences to be destroyed or wiped out.  He doesn’t want nationalistic wars.  He doesn’t want people to be so proud of their country that they despise other countries, but He does want people to love their own people, to love their own land.  That’s the Fourth Commandment.  To have characteristics of one’s country is absolutely normal.  It’s the opposite which is not normal.  To love one’s own country is absolutely normal, but it’s not decisive.  What is decisive is the Faith.

[John Grace]

The Germans are again different.  They’re a driving force wherever they are and whatever they do.  The German contribution to the finances of the Church is very important.

 

After my own Nation and  people, my favourite people and place is Germany.

[Ethelred]

Thank you Ancien Regime & Faber. That's exactly what I was looking for!

How much influence does national background have on the position of the Society as it is?  If, say, the majority of priests were Italian or Japanese, to what extent do you think that affects them?

Well, national background influences a good deal.  The English are bloody-minded.    They’re all just bloody-minded.

When I heard the good English Bishop saying this back in June, listing to these Youtube videos of the conference, I had to think of the liberal Ignis Ardens folks (in particular of the administration) and their Monty Python way to ridicule even religious matters of the essence.

Patricius and Clare are not in the best of ... and we should ...

The hobbies, health record, etc of Internet contributors don't matter. Their letters look all the same on the screen. And if one can't do a certain thing, one doesn't do it. Because also the Internet knows the old frontier saying: God created men. Colonel Colt made them equal.

Having said this, let's add: I appreciate your contributions a lot, John!

[Incredulous]

Ethelred said:

"... I had to think of the liberal Ignis Ardens folks (in particular of the administration) and their Monty Python way to ridicule even religious matters of the essence."

IA's "Monty Python" attitude... that's a good description!

Just before resigning, Clare and Sarto were chiding us
Americans for being too sarcastic.  What a laugh.

[AntiFellayism]

New Code of Canon Law to be announced by Menzigen soon. Keep tuned!

Following the same line, this New Code will be expected to be tougher on requirements for the priesthood.

[Diego]

...The two administrators of Ignis Ardens (IA), Patricius and Clare, are both liberal Catholics. ...

Both seem to be guided by personal pique rather than objective truth.

[poche]

What those forums may need is someone who is not connected to the SSPX who respects them and cannot be intimidated by Fellay.
 :rolleyes: :rolleyes: :rolleyes:  

[Wessex]

The UK district wants to toe the line even within close proximity of Bp. W. Fr. Morgan is part of the Chapter agreement and is handing down the law to moderators who want to abide by it. So no heroics here; the excitement was short-lived.

[claudel]

There will always be those who leave the Tory party but the Tory party never leaves them. A reality.

This is an international disease, alas. Fifteen years or so ago, the late Joseph Sobran wrote that most Americans who styled themselves constitutionalists or reactionaries or conservative anarchists were, himself included, merely recovering Republicans. (He was using "recovering" with jocularly disparaging reference to such pseudomedical expressions as "recovering alcoholic" and the like.)

The belief that partisan politics has any influence on governance or those who govern is one of the most absurd bêtises of the religion of democracy worship—and one of the hardest for converts from it to relinquish.