Catholic Info
Traditional Catholic Faith => SSPX Resistance News => Topic started by: Quo Vadis Petre on October 19, 2012, 08:51:49 PM
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Patricius, the forum owner, had just announced a few hours ago or less, he will close down IA in a week or so.
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If this is true, what a coward muppet he is !!!
Well at least we won't have to put up with quite a few delusional people, including its most "precious" invention: "A visionary".
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We don't know the reasons for Patricius making his decision.
Anyway, it's not as though the posters there can't come here or set up a new forum.
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IMO, it's not big deal.
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IMO, it's not big deal.
I think it is kind of a big deal, if it is because they were bullied until their right to free speech caved in.
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IMO, it's not big deal.
I think it is kind of a big deal, if it is because they were bullied until their right to free speech caved in.
The bullying is a big deal. The closing of the forum, not so much.
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Menzingen is surely behind this.
I have petitioned Patricius to turn over administration of IA to me.
We will see.
But I bet as soon as Menzingen read tht, they put 3 lawyers on the phone to him!
I would have that site straightened up in 24 hours, with a long list of soon-to-be-banned members at the top of my list.
Then the scrubbing of accordista posts.
But of course, this is why it will not happen.
PS: They are now speculating on whether Matthew and Seraphim are the same person. Anonymity pays dividends in this combat.
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With Gregorio Sarto and Clare gone as moderators, all the burden was on him. He tried to come back strong after having been hospitalized, but it was obviously too much for him. That kind of pressure would be hard for anyone to take. Who knows what kind of threats may have been made. No matter what one says, it's another loss for Tradition. A sad, sad day. God speed, Patricius.
:pray:
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It probably was too much because he also questioned the veracity of GS's reasons for no longer moderating IA. He also seemed to believe Catholic Truth Scotland's campaign against GS concerning the Letter sent earlier to Menzigen.
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Menzingen is surely behind this.
I have petitioned Patricius to turn over administration of IA to me.
We will see.
But I bet as soon as Menzingen read tht, they put 3 lawyers on the phone to him!
I would have that site straightened up in 24 hours, with a long list of soon-to-be-banned members at the top of my list.
Then the scrubbing of accordista posts.
But of course, this is why it will not happen.
PS: They are now speculating on whether Matthew and Seraphim are the same person. Anonymity pays dividends in this combat.
Hahaha, that's rich. Anyone with a brain and the slightest bit of ability to "intuit from posts" would be able to tell clear as day we're two different people. You're way more direct, choleric, and less wordy than me. And your posting style is totally different.
But, then again, I'm a bit of an artist with a gift for capturing the "essence" of someone/something for future use (poem, etc.).
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IMO, it's not big deal.
I think it is kind of a big deal, if it is because they were bullied until their right to free speech caved in.
Patricius specifically said that is not the reason he is closing the forum. In order to keep rumors to a minimum, I am posting Patricius' posts below.
He [Patricius] first posted this:
In the days since Gregorio's Urbi et Orbi announcement, I have patiently awaited the email from Menzingen's lawyer concerning the moderators' involvement in Ignis Ardens. As on every occasion, Menzingen has felt the need to turn the screws on us, the emails flow.
However, none have arrived. They certainly have my email address and the Dresden lawyer certainly knows it.
The only only certainty I can derive from Gregorio's original post on this thread is that his information is not first-hand, it's uncertain, appears to be a lot of third-party hearsay and not likely to be true. Menzingen knows that it cannot excommunicate anyone from the Church. But, what they can do, is forbid laity from entering the chapels they own, thus effectively denying them the sacraments. However, I have seen, nor heard, any evidence to support that this has actually happened, at least not in the GB District.
Of course, should Menzingen wish to take this up with me, then I hope they do so.
I apologise for the premature knee-jerk reaction that +Fellay was taking the piss. Gregorio's post was designed to wind people up, and I admit it had that effect on me.
He [Patricius] later posted this:
Another important announcement:
I'm closing Ignis Ardens, permanently. None of this is good for my health and the news that Dawn Marie is the visionary is just proof to me that the Society has gone nuts.
I'll give it a week or two, then it's curtains.
This is nothing to do with Menzingen or the District Superior. It's my decision, not theirs.
I'd like to thank members past and present for all their contributions.
PATRICIUS.
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With respect Neely Ann, we can read what he officially said ourselves, so thank you for trying to "keep rumors to a minimum". Only a naive person or someone who is so devoted to the SSPX leadership agenda would believe that there is not much more going on here than what is said "officially". If forums will not close voluntarily, measures can be taken to make it happen anyway. That is my take. No rumor, but "reading between the lines" like we know at least one Bishop does.
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With respect Neely Ann, we can read what he officially said ourselves, so thank you for trying to "keep rumors to a minimum". Only a naive person or someone who is so devoted to the SSPX leadership agenda would believe that there is not much more going on here than what is said "officially". If forums will not close voluntarily, measures can be taken to make it happen anyway. That is my take. No rumor, but "reading between the lines" like we know at least one Bishop does.
It's not a rumor that Bishop Fellay demanded the closing of the Eleison comments, is it?
Or is it a rumor that Bishop Williamson is veritably expelled?
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Sorry to see that IA is closing, that's sad. I understand why Patricius is doing it though. I suppose the stress was too much for him. I can relate.
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On the eve of Bp. W's expulsion it was turning into a nasty battleground. I am sure there was a constant flow of leadership-inspired agent provocateurs intent on crippling the site. Being an offshoot of Angelqueen for UK trads with many topics peculiar to the local scene, it got sucked into the big internal struggle now going on inside the Society which its managers were not too keen on exposing. Consequently, it has become an easy victim of official disapproval at district level. There seems to be this disparity between Bp. W's refusal not to publish on the Internet and Fr. Morgan's dislike of the medium.
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On the eve of Bp. W's expulsion it was turning into a nasty battleground. I am sure there was a constant flow of leadership-inspired agent provocateurs intent on crippling the site. Being an offshoot of Angelqueen for UK trads with many topics peculiar to the local scene, it got sucked into the big internal struggle now going on inside the Society which its managers were not too keen on exposing. Consequently, it has become an easy victim of official disapproval at district level.
Forums rely on internet psychology which makes one page under the "forum banner" seem like it's closer than others. It's hard to get people to go to a random page on a random forum. Really though, with clever enough promotion it should be easy to get the herd to more genial pastures, with better pest management options.
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Sorry to see that IA is closing, that's sad. I understand why Patricius is doing it though. I suppose the stress was too much for him. I can relate.
If he is going to let it be overrun with accordista trolls, then it is better to close it.
Matthew seems to have a tighter grasp on the idea that a forum should have an editorial policy consonant with the beliefs of its administrator, not just be a free for all, permitting a tiring presence of obvious agitators.
Looks like the readership of CI will be increasing soon!
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Matthew seems to have a tighter grasp on the idea that a forum should have an editorial policy consonant with the beliefs of its administrator, not just be a free for all, permitting a tiring presence of obvious agitators.
Indeed.
Looks like the readership of CI will be increasing soon!
Good news then. In particular since this CI readership is anti-liberal or Catholic in short.
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IMO, it's not big deal.
I think it is kind of a big deal, if it is because they were bullied until their right to free speech caved in.
Patricius specifically said that is not the reason he is closing the forum. In order to keep rumors to a minimum, I am posting Patricius' posts below.
He [Patricius] first posted this:
In the days since Gregorio's Urbi et Orbi announcement, I have patiently awaited the email from Menzingen's lawyer concerning the moderators' involvement in Ignis Ardens. As on every occasion, Menzingen has felt the need to turn the screws on us, the emails flow.
However, none have arrived. They certainly have my email address and the Dresden lawyer certainly knows it.
The only only certainty I can derive from Gregorio's original post on this thread is that his information is not first-hand, it's uncertain, appears to be a lot of third-party hearsay and not likely to be true. Menzingen knows that it cannot excommunicate anyone from the Church. But, what they can do, is forbid laity from entering the chapels they own, thus effectively denying them the sacraments. However, I have seen, nor heard, any evidence to support that this has actually happened, at least not in the GB District.
Of course, should Menzingen wish to take this up with me, then I hope they do so.
I apologise for the premature knee-jerk reaction that +Fellay was taking the piss. Gregorio's post was designed to wind people up, and I admit it had that effect on me.
He [Patricius] later posted this:
Another important announcement:
I'm closing Ignis Ardens, permanently. None of this is good for my health and the news that Dawn Marie is the visionary is just proof to me that the Society has gone nuts.
I'll give it a week or two, then it's curtains.
This is nothing to do with Menzingen or the District Superior. It's my decision, not theirs.
I'd like to thank members past and present for all their contributions.
PATRICIUS.
fwiw, reading the "Important Announcement" thread (at last pgs 9?-11 or so) at Ignis Ardens gives a much broader understanding of Patricius' motivations than these two isolated quotes. For example, the first quote above is in part rescinded within the thread.
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I was a little too hasty in my assumption, but then, I now understand why it would be better to close permanently, at least in the case of IA.
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Menzingen is surely behind this.
I have petitioned Patricius to turn over administration of IA to me.
We will see.
But I bet as soon as Menzingen read tht, they put 3 lawyers on the phone to him!
I would have that site straightened up in 24 hours, with a long list of soon-to-be-banned members at the top of my list.
Then the scrubbing of accordista posts.
But of course, this is why it will not happen.
PS: They are now speculating on whether Matthew and Seraphim are the same person. Anonymity pays dividends in this combat.
Hahaha, that's rich. Anyone with a brain and the slightest bit of ability to "intuit from posts" would be able to tell clear as day we're two different people. You're way more direct, choleric, and less wordy than me. And your posting style is totally different.
But, then again, I'm a bit of an artist with a gift for capturing the "essence" of someone/something for future use (poem, etc.).
Matthew,
Why aren't you afraid of threats from the SSPX? Why are other people afraid? Maybe I am missing something, since I have nothing to do with the SSPX, never have, and don't want to, but why are people afraid of them? What can they do, on a practical level, to anyone?
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Also, could some one tell me what is up with the Visionary? I have no idea what that is about. PM me if you like. Thanks.
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Matthew,
Why aren't you afraid of threats from the SSPX?
Good question. He must be in league with Menzingen!
(See, I can do mad conspiracy theories too!)
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Why aren't you afraid of threats from the SSPX? Why are other people afraid?
A few weeks ago in Ireland, a Society priest, an alter Christus told blatant lies from the pulpit so why on earth should anybody be "afraid" of these clerics? It is Menzingen, who are afraid. The Society seem to be getting desperate when their priests are now telling lies from the pulpit.
They will only muzzle you, if you allow them to do so. Same for this deny of sacraments, the Novus Ordo clergy don't even do that yet you have SSPX priests telling lies from the pulpits, the laity funded.
Why should Mathew be afraid?
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Update from Patricius. Personally,I'm no fan of Patricius.
IGNIS ARDENS WILL NOT BE CLOSING.
http://cathinfo-warning-pornography!/Ignis_Ardens/index.php?showtopic=11175
After having thought about what it would mean for, not just me but everybody else who uses IA, and to those who would love to see it close (Menzingen included), I will be keeping IA open. I'd like to thank Incredulous at CathInfo for his posts:
http://www.cathinfo.com/catholic.php/Ignis...piracy-theories
"If Patricius was exercising his moderator authority as Matthew does...."
Well, Incred, since you are the OP of that ridiculous thread, and just to prove I can "exercise my moderator authority as Matthew does...", I will do exactly as Matthew does. You're banned.
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Update from Patricius. Personally,I'm no fan of Patricius.
IGNIS ARDENS WILL NOT BE CLOSING.
http://cathinfo-warning-pornography!/Ignis_Ardens/index.php?showtopic=11175
After having thought about what it would mean for, not just me but everybody else who uses IA, and to those who would love to see it close (Menzingen included), I will be keeping IA open. I'd like to thank Incredulous at CathInfo for his posts:
http: //www.cathinfo.com/catholic.php/Ignis...piracy-theories (http://www.cathinfo.com/catholic.php/Ignis-Ardens-shut-down-conspiracy-theories)
"If Patricius was exercising his moderator authority as Matthew does...."
Well, Incred, since you are the OP of that ridiculous thread, and just to prove I can "exercise my moderator authority as Matthew does...", I will do exactly as Matthew does. You're banned.
(I repaired the broken CI link, above)
"Incredulous banned - and not before time"?
Is that 'margaret' always so foot-in-mouth or is this a special case?
And so, he's going to keep the forum open, just to show Incredulous how wrong he
is, while keeping the Accordistas around who are running him ragged?
Looks like IA is inexorably doomed.................
margaret
Posted: Oct 21 2012, 10:29 AM
PATRICIUS! user posted image
thankyou.gif Yay!
Incredulous BANNED! and not before time.
welwag.gif
kiss.gif notworthy.gif beer.gif charge.gif wine.gif thumbsup.gif clap.gif clap.gif horn.gif doff.gif jabs.gif jabs.gif hippy.gif violin.gif space.gif trombone.gif Dance.gif Dance.gif Dance.gif Dance.gif accordion.gif heil.gif heil.gif pizza.gif torquemada.gif zap.gif band.gif flowers.gif party.gif party.gif circle.gif circle.gif circle.gif cheerleader.gif cheerleader.gif conduct.gif conduct.gif stunned.gif chocegg.gif DJ.gif harp.gif flowerpot.gif balloons.gif balloons.gif congrats.gif grouphug.gif grouphug.gif hookah.gif glug.gif glug.gif
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Sorry to see that IA is closing, that's sad. I understand why Patricius is doing it though. I suppose the stress was too much for him. I can relate.
If he is going to let it be overrun with accordista trolls, then it is better to close it.
Matthew seems to have a tighter grasp on the idea that a forum should have an editorial policy consonant with the beliefs of its administrator, not just be a free for all, permitting a tiring presence of obvious agitators.
Looks like the readership of CI will be increasing soon!
There was no free for all at Judaica Ardens.
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Update from Patricius. Personally,I'm no fan of Patricius.
IGNIS ARDENS WILL NOT BE CLOSING.
http://cathinfo-warning-pornography!/Ignis_Ardens/index.php?showtopic=11175
After having thought about what it would mean for, not just me but everybody else who uses IA, and to those who would love to see it close (Menzingen included), I will be keeping IA open. I'd like to thank Incredulous at CathInfo for his posts:
http://www.cathinfo.com/catholic.php/Ignis...piracy-theories
"If Patricius was exercising his moderator authority as Matthew does...."
Well, Incred, since you are the OP of that ridiculous thread, and just to prove I can "exercise my moderator authority as Matthew does...", I will do exactly as Matthew does. You're banned.
How amusing. Even more consistent than Patricius' policy of letting the character assassins and apologists for Zionism and the тαℓмυd run wild on Judaica Ardens is his policy of management by personal pique.
As I said, there is/was no free for all there. The timeouts and bans have always given an edge to the ѕуηαgσgυє.
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How amusing. Even more consistent than Patricius' policy of letting the character assassins and apologists for Zionism and the тαℓмυd run wild on Judaica Ardens is his policy of management by personal pique.
Erratic behavior, to say the least.
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Why aren't you afraid of threats from the SSPX? Why are other people afraid?
A few weeks ago in Ireland, a Society priest, an alter Christus told blatant lies from the pulpit so why on earth should anybody be "afraid" of these clerics? It is Menzingen, who are afraid. The Society seem to be getting desperate when their priests are now telling lies from the pulpit.
They will only muzzle you, if you allow them to do so. Same for this deny of sacraments, the Novus Ordo clergy don't even do that yet you have SSPX priests telling lies from the pulpits, the laity funded.
Why should Mathew be afraid?
Oftentimes when I read your posts, John, I wonder if we live in the same country but in different dimensions. Do you really live in Ireland or you just repeat what some folks in Ireland tell you?
I understand that you do not want to give names for fear of Menzingen legal and sacramental retaliation, but at least you could say what was said that is a blatant lie (s).
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I haven't spent much time on "Judaica Ardens," but based on what I've seen of "Queen of Straw" Clare here I'm not surprised in the least that modernists and other riff-raff are given free rein over there.
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the situation in ireland is Special......
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Why aren't you afraid of threats from the SSPX? Why are other people afraid?
A few weeks ago in Ireland, a Society priest, an alter Christus told blatant lies from the pulpit so why on earth should anybody be "afraid" of these clerics? It is Menzingen, who are afraid. The Society seem to be getting desperate when their priests are now telling lies from the pulpit.
They will only muzzle you, if you allow them to do so. Same for this deny of sacraments, the Novus Ordo clergy don't even do that yet you have SSPX priests telling lies from the pulpits, the laity funded.
Why should Mathew be afraid?
I don't think he should be. I don't think anyone should be, except perhaps for SSPX priests with integrity who might have some understandable anxiety about their livelihood. If you are a layperson, what can they do to you if you rail against them or even simply ignore them?
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So Clare is some sort of crypto-Jew? I feel like I am in pretty good company then, since many here believe the same of me. It seems that all one has to do to be a member of this elite club is to fail to see the world and the Church exactly as you do.
Have you ever met an actual Jew? Have you ever read something about actual Judaism that was not written by some right wing nut job? If you think what one finds at IA is Jєωιѕн, you couldn't pick Judaism out of a line up.
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If you think what one finds at IA is Jєωιѕн, you couldn't pick Judaism out of a line up.
Not Jєωιѕн, pro-Jєωιѕн. Like Ashmolean.
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Have you ever read something about actual Judaism that was not written by some right wing nut job?
Yeah, "ѕуηαgσgυє Rising" by Hugh Akins.
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Catholic Truth Scotland's campaign against GS concerning the Letter sent earlier to Menzigen
Whilst Sarto was dismissive of many things until recent times, the letter is excellent. Three Bishops sent Menzingen a letter also. We saw in recent times of well intentioned folk in Scotland are willing to offer their spare room in their council flat in Glasgow to Bishop Williamson.
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Relevant to the piece is this. What is Bishop Fellay so afraid of that he has to resort to such bullying and intimidation?
Dumb Ox
Dear Patricius,
Bishop Fellay, as with the other SSPX bishops, does not have authority or power to validly excommunicate anyone from the Church. Whatever episcopal function that Bishop Fellay possesses only comes to him through the necessity of the faithful requesting that he supplies it to them. His episcopal function relies solely upon a jurisdiction supplied by the Church because of a grave necessity of the faithful to receive true sacraments and sound doctrine.
I assume that Gregorio Sarto is using the word ‘excommunication’ not in the theological sense of being excommunicated from the Church but in a lesser sense of being forced to be separated from sacraments supplied by SSPX.
There are several people who Fr. Morgan has kindly informed of Bishop Fellay’s intention.
His intention is to attempt to force SSPX priests to deny sacraments to anyone who is proven to be involved in criticism of Bishop Fellay and Menzingen on blogs and forums. Ignis Ardens was specifically mentioned by Bishop Fellay to Fr. Morgan. It was further related by Bishop Fellay to Fr. Morgan that anyone involved in such criticism who works for SSPX must be sacked from their employment.
There are several people who were informed of Bishop Fellay’s stated intention by Fr. Morgan. I am told that Clare was one of them. Try Pilgrimage of Grace as well. It is just a matter of phoning or emailing them to ask for confirmation or denial.
If you require an authoritative source then simply pick up the telephone and ask Fr. Morgan. I am informed by a friend of Fr. Morgan that something about this matter is likely to appear in the next SSPX District newsletter.
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Why aren't you afraid of threats from the SSPX? Why are other people afraid?
A few weeks ago in Ireland, a Society priest, an alter Christus told blatant lies from the pulpit so why on earth should anybody be "afraid" of these clerics? It is Menzingen, who are afraid. The Society seem to be getting desperate when their priests are now telling lies from the pulpit.
They will only muzzle you, if you allow them to do so. Same for this deny of sacraments, the Novus Ordo clergy don't even do that yet you have SSPX priests telling lies from the pulpits, the laity funded.
Why should Mathew be afraid?
Oftentimes when I read your posts, John, I wonder if we live in the same country but in different dimensions. Do you really live in Ireland or you just repeat what some folks in Ireland tell you?
I understand that you do not want to give names for fear of Menzingen legal and sacramental retaliation, but at least you could say what was said that is a blatant lie (s).
:roll-laugh1: I enjoyed reading this. It's nice to get a chuckle.
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Have you ever met an actual Jew? Have you ever read something about actual Judaism that was not written by some right wing nut job? If you think what one finds at IA is Jєωιѕн, you couldn't pick Judaism out of a line up.
Met them, spoken with them, worked with and for them. And I can tell you a truth that applies to Jews, and to all people whose religious and/or cultural identity is tied integrally to his race: you don't understand a Jew by what he says to you, but by what he says to another Jew. A Jew won't profane the Most Holy Trinity, the incarnation and virgin birth of Jesus Christ, or the Holy Catholic Church in mixed company. Nor with they generally speak poorly of the goyim that they, as тαℓмυdists, view as little more than talking animals made from filth. But get a few of them together and it's a whole 'nother story.
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Have you ever read something about actual Judaism that was not written by some right wing nut job?
Yeah, "ѕуηαgσgυє Rising" by Hugh Akins.
I will look it up. Thanks.
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Have you ever met an actual Jew? Have you ever read something about actual Judaism that was not written by some right wing nut job? If you think what one finds at IA is Jєωιѕн, you couldn't pick Judaism out of a line up.
Met them, spoken with them, worked with and for them. And I can tell you a truth that applies to Jews, and to all people whose religious and/or cultural identity is tied integrally to his race: you don't understand a Jew by what he says to you, but by what he says to another Jew. A Jew won't profane the Most Holy Trinity, the incarnation and virgin birth of Jesus Christ, or the Holy Catholic Church in mixed company. Nor with they generally speak poorly of the goyim that they, as тαℓмυdists, view as little more than talking animals made from filth. But get a few of them together and it's a whole 'nother story.
Well, this is apparently also true of Catholics when you get them together, at least on some Internet forums.
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Catholic Truth Scotland's campaign against GS concerning the Letter sent earlier to Menzigen
Whilst Sarto was dismissive of many things until recent times, the letter is excellent. Three Bishops sent Menzingen a letter also. We saw in recent times of well intentioned folk in Scotland are willing to offer their spare room in their council flat in Glasgow to Bishop Williamson.
Well, I believe we do that at some point of time: trying to believe the good intentions of someone and dismissing the possibility the he is wrong. GS just saw the light in 2011, it looks like.
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Well, this is apparently also true of Catholics when you get them together, at least on some Internet forums.
But Catholics, at least in theory, follow the teachings and example of Our Lord Jesus Christ, even if poorly. While the "elder brothers" despise His teachings, His example and His Person, at least in practice.
If that's right wing, then so am I.
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Liberal Catholics are always close and eager to please the enemies of the Church, and always contemptuous of believers.
This is what is going on in the leadership of the SSPX at the moment.
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I suppose the shock for me when on IA was, along with the erasure of the Krah revelations, seeing the whole of the anti-establishment position of the old Society (from an English perspective) being dumped by the UK district in line with changes Menzingen were making over the years. And then new people were turning up attacking Bp. W and promoting the new relationship with Rome and the 'sin of anti-semitism'. It was clear then that, although the site gave space to the bishop and his situation, its heart was not really in it and the Menzingen position (and therefore the UK district position) was still the horse to back. The site is still hanging onto some independence but not enough to keep nervous moderators on board. The next crisis there will be over Bp. W's expected expulsion.
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Some people pushed certain issues too hard, giving Menzingen pretexts for their attacks on traditionalists in their effort to pull the SSPX into line with political correctness. What's so sad is that they found such hospitable soil for their politically correct weeds, anxious to choke true Catholicism. You would think people raised by traditionalists would have a good grasp of the corrupt orientation of this society, but unfortunately, the strength of the current of the culture is awfully hard to swim against. Without a firm intellectual foundation for anti-liberalism, without real understanding and knowledge, the majority will find liberalization palatable, though they will keep rather quiet about it.
Indulging characters like Ashmolean, who couldn't even seem to say a single thing pertaining to the Catholic Faith, but was strictly there to attack and insult Catholics, was frankly unbelievable.
We should not trust people just because they seem "nice."
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Indulging characters like Ashmolean, who couldn't even seem to say a single thing pertaining to the Catholic Faith, but was strictly there to attack and insult Catholics, was frankly unbelievable.
I thought he had some Catholic ideas and whilst satire is ok, he did get very personal. I had thought him a pleasant enough individual but his mockery was too much.
I'm not that bothered about people who attack Bishop Williamson. The Bishop and his many supporter's are in it for the long haul. All the critics seem to do is laugh and mock him. Can the critics outline where he has ever deviated from Catholic teaching or abandoned the principles of Archbishop Lefebvre?
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Ashmolean, like lawyer K, was all about Jew-loving.
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The next crisis there will be over Bp. W's expected expulsion.
I mentioned the latest news to a few who attend the SSPX. I was shocked that they now attend the Institute Christ the King Mass from time to time. I don't see building a resistance.
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Ashmolean was a walking reference manual. Did he ever have any original ideas? I think he heard that IA was a meeting-place of the 'new right' and he appeared in order to goad members in the wake of the Krah affair. He styles himself as a composer/publisher of music and hangs out with Jєωιѕн friends.
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Ashmolean was a walking reference manual. Did he ever have any original ideas? I think he heard that IA was a meeting-place of the 'new right' and he appeared in order to goad members in the wake of the Krah affair. He styles himself as a composer/publisher of music and hangs out with Jєωιѕн friends.
These "high church" "trads" don't have any use for the Faith itself.
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Ashmolean was a walking reference manual. Did he ever have any original ideas? I think he heard that IA was a meeting-place of the 'new right' and he appeared in order to goad members in the wake of the Krah affair. He styles himself as a composer/publisher of music and hangs out with Jєωιѕн friends.
These "high church" "trads" don't have any use for the Faith itself.
I'm having a hard time reading between the lines here when everyone is writing
in code language. HAHAHAHAHA
I figure 'Ashmolean' is a member on IA, which I rarely look at for numerous reasons.
So the fabled 'Krah affair' is not in my experience. Can anyone post a link or two
so I can go see what happened when I wasn't looking?............... Please??
Composer/publisher: composer of music: what kind of music? publisher: of what,
sheet music for acid rock bands, pop singers, hip-hop teenage girl aerobics classes?
Or, is it "high church 'trads' music?" (There's a good reason to be careful with the
apostrophe in the plural possessive case: trads' music, or "trads' music" or ''trads''
music' ???????)
Don't get me wrong. I appreciate the low-down on the up-and-up. :cool:
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Take note of this from Mc Farland. Bishop Williamson is no enemy.
http://cathinfo-warning-pornography!/Ignis_Ardens/index.php?showtopic=11182&view=getnewpost
Judith,
+W has been working to undermine the Society and its leadership for some time now.
He has no evidence for the proposition that after the 1988 consecrations, ABL saw the light and thereafter rejected all dealings with Rome until it converted. Even if he did, it is now +Fellay who must make the decisions.
The evidence for his Judas Fellay contentions is likewise conspicuous by its absence.
As +W would say, you're behaving like a woman: sacrificing reason to sentiment and a hopeless hope that everything can be patched up.
I have no idea what +W thinks he's doing, but objectively speaking he is now an enemy of the SSPX, and a pertinacious one at that; and so must be treated accordingly unless he repent.
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I don't know much about Ashmolean, but IA has lost most of its credibility in my view and it may as well shut down. It is a waste of time to argue with people who talk in circles and don't stand for truth, but stand for blind obedience, mis-information, and senseless banter as if they can't think or add 2+2.
I used to visit there to learn about the Traditional Church as a fairly new convert. Over the past year, modernists have moved in and basically were allowed to work their managed media tactics to destroy any useful forum discussion. I believe very much that some of the modernists that remain there ARE on someone's payroll as part of a disinformation campaign to change me, you, and our fellow Traditional Catholics. That IA has decided to stay open, this tells me the modernist's deeds are not completed. Perhaps a few visited Cathinfo and realized they would not be able to work their misdeeds here and the decision was made to keep it open for them.
For all we know, the management of the site HAS been taken over by someone else, but they kept the admin name of Patricius. It was said that the man who used that name was not in good health. Who knows, who really cares when credibility is destroyed?
At least in the near term, the future of the Traditional Catholic Church is at stake right now. Chapels preach obedience while nothing is said of a deposed Bishop and dozens of priests who have been kicked out of the Society for being full of truth rather than full of blind obedience. I will take truth. We have seen what blind obedience has done to the Church over the past 50 years.
I re-read article last night "Resisting Wayward Prelates" and it makes a lot of sense today.
http://www.catholicapologetics.info/modernproblems/vatican2/wayward.htm
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Take note of this from Mc Farland. Bishop Williamson is no enemy.
http://cathinfo-warning-pornography!/Ignis_Ardens/index.php?showtopic=11182&view=getnewpost
Judith,
+W has been working to undermine the Society and its leadership for some time now.
He has no evidence for the proposition that after the 1988 consecrations, ABL saw the light and thereafter rejected all dealings with Rome until it converted. Even if he did, it is now +Fellay who must make the decisions.
The evidence for his Judas Fellay contentions is likewise conspicuous by its absence.
As +W would say, you're behaving like a woman: sacrificing reason to sentiment and a hopeless hope that everything can be patched up.
I have no idea what +W thinks he's doing, but objectively speaking he is now an enemy of the SSPX, and a pertinacious one at that; and so must be treated accordingly unless he repent.
That post is no worse than the one he posted before it:
1) HE makes no reference to doctrine as a precondition because, supporting as he does the decisions of the Chapter, he does not consider doctrine a precondition. He's not on your side. Repeat: he's not on your side.
2) As HE says, if there is a doctrinal solution, then we needn't worry ourselves very much about preconditions. The preconditions are only interesting if there is a non-doctrinal deal.
3) John Lane is not the obvious choice for information on SSPX strategy and tactics.
4) I think that +de G simply reflects the true situation of +W. He has been talking about the Society in the third person for months now. He is still a nominal member because for his purposes, the production values of being dismissed are better than the production values of quitting.
I believe that in fact, +W was barred from the Chapter by +F before the Chapter convened. In any event, what are your credentials to pass judgment upon the latter's decision under the constitutional docuмent(s) of the Society?
5) Obviously he had to think of all of these things in order to come to the conclusions he has reached. He has obviously come to different conclusions from yours. The choices are not limited to (i) agreeing with you or (ii) being a dimwit.
6) Ah, yes: HE is a sheep being led to the slaughter, unlike courageous intellectuals like yourself. HE seems to have got a lot dumber since the hardliners were still hoping that he was on their side.
7) It is certainly the case that Rome balked, and not Menzigen. It is certainly the case that Menzigen has laid out the conditions for a no doctrinal strings regularization. But it is also the case that Rome has made perfectly clear that there will not be a no doctrinal strings regularization, and the SSPX has rejected the doctrinal capitulation that Rome has insisted upon as a condition to SSPX regularization. So your conclusion that "Menzingen is fighting mightily to get a deal with Rome" makes no sense, unless you have evidence that after the Society leadership has put itself solidly behind the Chapter decisions, +Fellay and some or all of the rest of the leadership really intends to capitulate, which is something they could have done on June 13 if they had been so inclined.
Let me summarize your apparent position. +F didn't capitulate on June 13. Instead, he went to the Chapter and lined up the Society leadership behind rejection of the Vatican requirements. But NOW, having doing so, he is going to sell out; pretty soon, any time now, just you wait...
Come to think of it, I've never seen you and The Little Pebble in the same room.
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Anyone wondering why I banned him? His fanaticism for the Accordista faction is quite nauseating.
He's a complete fanboy; he's totally surrendered his faculty of reason to the Cult Leader.
supporting as he does the decisions of the Chapter, he does not consider doctrine a precondition. He's not on your side. Repeat: he's not on your side.
And you see no problem with that, John? You're OK with the fact that the SSPX General Chapter doesn't see doctrine a precondition? That's insane. So there are no problems with the SSPX putting itself under Roman control, even though they're completely committed to Modernism and the destruction of the Church? Gotcha.
As the wise saying goes, "Never argue with a crazy person."
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Is McFarland hired help in the USA?
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Diego said: "Is McFarland hired help in the USA?"
Very good question!
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I don't know much about Ashmolean, but IA has lost most of its credibility in my view and it may as well shut down. It is a waste of time to argue with people who talk in circles and don't stand for truth, but stand for blind obedience, mis-information, and senseless banter as if they can't think or add 2+2.
I used to visit there to learn about the Traditional Church as a fairly new convert. Over the past year, modernists have moved in and basically were allowed to work their managed media tactics to destroy any useful forum discussion. I believe very much that some of the modernists that remain there ARE on someone's payroll as part of a disinformation campaign to change me, you, and our fellow Traditional Catholics. That IA has decided to stay open, this tells me the modernist's deeds are not completed. Perhaps a few visited Cathinfo and realized they would not be able to work their misdeeds here and the decision was made to keep it open for them.
For all we know, the management of the site HAS been taken over by someone else, but they kept the admin name of Patricius. It was said that the man who used that name was not in good health. Who knows, who really cares when credibility is destroyed?
At least in the near term, the future of the Traditional Catholic Church is at stake right now. Chapels preach obedience while nothing is said of a deposed Bishop and dozens of priests who have been kicked out of the Society for being full of truth rather than full of blind obedience. I will take truth. We have seen what blind obedience has done to the Church over the past 50 years.
I re-read article last night "Resisting Wayward Prelates" and it makes a lot of sense today. http://www.catholicapologetics.info/modernproblems/vatican2/wayward.htm
Nice, insightful post Nikolas!
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Diego said: "Is McFarland hired help in the USA?"
Very good question!
This is speculation, but I got the impression John was asked to help out Father Rostand. After the failed "Stop the Rumors" campaign, Father was getting chewed-up everytime he opened his mouth.
There were too many fires to put out. He needed a back-up, unofficial spokesperson.
Macfarland got off to a bad start. He chose to criticize Father Ringrose
for crticizing the pope. John was handed his head by Dr. David Allen White, who attended Father's chapel for many years.
John touts his law degree and this fits the Menzingen MO of naively thinking lawyers are smart writers and talkers. Attorneys MacFarland, Krah and McCall have disproven that.
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Have you ever met an actual Jew? Have you ever read something about actual Judaism that was not written by some right wing nut job? If you think what one finds at IA is Jєωιѕн, you couldn't pick Judaism out of a line up.
Met them, spoken with them, worked with and for them. And I can tell you a truth that applies to Jews, and to all people whose religious and/or cultural identity is tied integrally to his race: you don't understand a Jew by what he says to you, but by what he says to another Jew. A Jew won't profane the Most Holy Trinity, the incarnation and virgin birth of Jesus Christ, or the Holy Catholic Church in mixed company. Nor with they generally speak poorly of the goyim that they, as тαℓмυdists, view as little more than talking animals made from filth. But get a few of them together and it's a whole 'nother story.
The tribe could not succeed in their plots without the use of sayans.
Ex-Mossad agent Victor Ostrovsky says sayans, perform many roles, are Jєωιѕн citizens of other nationalities assisting the Mossad.
Sayans are ʝʊdɛօ-masonic collaborators. They don't necessarily have to look Jєωιѕн, but almost always have some connection or relatedness with the tribe.
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Update from Patricius. Personally,I'm no fan of Patricius.
IGNIS ARDENS WILL NOT BE CLOSING.
http://cathinfo-warning-pornography!/Ignis_Ardens/index.php?showtopic=11175
After having thought about what it would mean for, not just me but everybody else who uses IA, and to those who would love to see it close (Menzingen included), I will be keeping IA open. I'd like to thank Incredulous at CathInfo for his posts:
http://www.cathinfo.com/catholic.php/Ignis...piracy-theories
"If Patricius was exercising his moderator authority as Matthew does...."
Well, Incred, since you are the OP of that ridiculous thread, and just to prove I can "exercise my moderator authority as Matthew does...", I will do exactly as Matthew does. You're banned.
It sounds like a typically Irish response. Is he Irish ?
I'm sorry to have hurt his feewings.
I didn't know he was sick?
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Liberal Catholics are always close and eager to please the enemies of the Church, and always contemptuous of believers.
This is what is going on in the leadership of the SSPX at the moment.
I've not experienced it with SSPX'ers but I have with others, you hit the nail on the head with them being comntemptuous of believers. Where does that come from? It's almost surreal to me when I've experienced it. It's been the most difficult thing as far as converting. It just happened again a few weeks ago.
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Liberal Catholics are always close and eager to please the enemies of the Church, and always contemptuous of believers.
This is what is going on in the leadership of the SSPX at the moment.
I've not experienced it with SSPX'ers but I have with others, you hit the nail on the head with them being comntemptuous of believers. Where does that come from? It's almost surreal to me when I've experienced it. It's been the most difficult thing as far as converting. It just happened again a few weeks ago.
Try to get a CD or MP-3 copy of Bp. Williamson's Doctrinal talks which includes a discussion of St. Pope Pius X's encyclical, Pascendi.
He entertainingly explains the heresy of Modernism in detail.
Modernism is called the synthesis of all other heresies because it's believers
have stopped praying and have learned to selectively detach their minds from the objective Truth.
Steven Heiner carries Bp. Williamson's talks.
http://truerestorationpress.com/
The SSPX seminary dumped all of Msgr. Williamson's audio lectures after Msgr. Fellay deemed them to be dangerous to his special relations with the Holy Father and the jews.
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Thank you Incredulous.
I was used to being criticized for having a Christian lifestyle. What throws a curve ball at me is when it comes from other Christians like what I found when we converted.
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John touts his law degree and this fits the Menzingen MO of naively thinking lawyers are smart writers and talkers. Attorneys MacFarland, Krah and McCall have disproven that.
Agreed.
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John touts his law degree and this fits the Menzingen MO of naively thinking lawyers are smart writers and talkers. Attorneys MacFarland, Krah and McCall have disproven that.
Being a lawyer is more about being insinuating, cautious and tricky than it is about speaking from the heart eloquently or debating honestly.
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Doesn't anyone here have any compunction for gratuitous ridiculous accusations?
I suspect that the only "sin" on this forum is to to say something that doesn't make Catholics look like mean, fanatical navel-gazers.
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Doesn't anyone here have any compunction for gratuitous ridiculous accusations?
I suspect that the only "sin" on this forum is to to say something that doesn't make Catholics look like mean, fanatical navel-gazers.
Do you ever have any particular criticisms to offer or are you here to offer bland, non-specific insults while posing as a traditional Catholic?
If you can't offer substantive posts you should leave.
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Liberal Catholics are always close and eager to please the enemies of the Church, and always contemptuous of believers.
This is what is going on in the leadership of the SSPX at the moment.
I've not experienced it with SSPX'ers but I have with others, you hit the nail on the head with them being comntemptuous of believers. Where does that come from? It's almost surreal to me when I've experienced it. It's been the most difficult thing as far as converting. It just happened again a few weeks ago.
Try to get a CD or MP-3 copy of Bp. Williamson's Doctrinal talks which includes a discussion of St. Pope Pius X's encyclical, Pascendi.
He entertainingly explains the heresy of Modernism in detail.
Modernism is called the synthesis of all other heresies because it's believers
have stopped praying and have learned to selectively detach their minds from the objective Truth.
Steven Heiner carries Bp. Williamson's talks.
http://truerestorationpress.com/
The SSPX seminary dumped all of Msgr. Williamson's audio lectures after Msgr. Fellay deemed them to be dangerous to his special relations with the Holy Father and the jews.
Thank you, Incredulous for the link to Steven Heiner, I just tried it but it is offline for updates, but will try again soon.
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I understand that you do not want to give names for fear of Menzingen legal and sacramental retaliation, but at least you could say what was said that is a blatant lie
I have no fear of retaliation from Menzingen.
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Fascinating.
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I think this thread has "lock me" written all over it.
Normally I don't like to lock threads, but I think there is a time when locking them actually helps the forum, by preventing irrelevant, outdated, or ancient threads from being "necro-bumped".