Author Topic: If the SSPX Surrenders Their Properties to Rome (Read 5535 times)

Last Tradhican · « **on:** February 20, 2017, 01:13:24 PM »

If the SSPX do not control in perpetuity their assets, then they can be plundered over time and all their parishioners abandoned to the Novus Ordo. Rome should have no ability to seize their seminaries or chapels or schools. If that is not guaranteed in the agreement with Rome, then with the signing of the docuмent by Bp. Fellay, we will not only see the beginning of the end of the SSPX (a priestly association) but also the initiation of the ultimate dispersal of ALL the laity to fend for themselves in Novus Ordo land.

If Bp. Fellay signs an agreement giving control of their properties to Rome, it is the certain sign that the SSPX has been sold out by a traitor.

poche · « **Reply #1 on:** February 20, 2017, 11:15:42 PM »

The disposition of Church property is governed by Canon Law.

http://www.vatican.va/archive/ENG1104/_INDEX.HTM

Last Tradhican · « **Reply #2 on:** February 21, 2017, 12:49:40 AM »

Quote from: poche

The disposition of Church property is governed by Canon Law.

http://www.vatican.va/archive/ENG1104/_INDEX.HTM

How does that play out in this case?

Incredulous · « **Reply #3 on:** February 21, 2017, 12:51:03 AM »

Quote from: poche

The disposition of Church property is governed by Canon Law.

http://www.vatican.va/archive/ENG1104/_INDEX.HTM

"Right on Poche!"

B from A · « **Reply #4 on:** February 21, 2017, 06:44:02 AM »

Quote from: Incredulous

Quote from: poche
The disposition of Church property is governed by Canon Law.

http://www.vatican.va/archive/ENG1104/_INDEX.HTM

"Right on Poche!"

Wessex · « **Reply #5 on:** February 21, 2017, 07:19:19 AM »

In vain I have asked the Society for my money back but I do realise it now graces Fellay's cellar of vintage wines and would not want to spoil his fun. Surely, all those penny collections are intended for that very high standard of living the Swiss enjoy!

The properties of the Society. In England there are three properties of any great value. Wimbledon, the school in Berkshire and the Bristol old folks home. All are widows' gifts. The rest are either humble homes or are redundant Victorian churches which nobody wants. Assuming the Society here does not amalgamate with assorted ED outfits, the Society could make a net gain of assets it uses when it intergates with the mainstream. Existing priests could look forward to higher remuneration sufficient enough to counter any lingering doubts about their new spiritual status.

Incredulous · « **Reply #6 on:** February 21, 2017, 09:29:29 AM »

Fighting the good fight on "widow's gifts".

Wow, that's beautiful when the Congregation lives up to their mission of preserving and advancing Catholic tradition.

But when they sell out, it becomes, "ripping-off little old Catholic ladies". How sad & bad

Matthew · « **Reply #7 on:** February 21, 2017, 09:32:28 AM »

It is a fact that the more mainstream you are, the better off you are materially.

For example, Indult priests certainly have a higher standard of living, more pay, and a much more "humane" (and less grueling) work schedule than, say, a Resistance priest.

Of course, a Resistance priest is basically just a Trad priest from the 1970's, or the early days of the Trad movement. Everything was small, disorganized, and in flux; priests and resources were few, etc.

It's simply the way things work. The more personnel you have, the more resources you have, and the larger the organization, the more orderly, regular, and predictable everything becomes. You start getting things like helpers, assistants, and days off. Even vacations are possible!

I know one thing: if I were a mercenary priest, I would be pushing for a deal with Rome too. More recognition and less stigma always translate into more people in the pews. And even though the priests don't get the whole collection, they still can receive gifts from parishioners, eat dinner with them, etc.

Miseremini · « **Reply #8 on:** February 21, 2017, 09:46:53 AM »

Quote from: Last Tradhican

If Bp. Fellay signs an agreement giving control of their properties to Rome, it is the certain sign that the SSPX has been sold out by a traitor.

When the Anglicans got their personal prelature from Rome, a few who had property were able to keep it I believe, and also they are not under the local bishop but have their own bishop in Texas who covers all North America.

Pax Vobis · « **Reply #9 on:** February 21, 2017, 10:03:27 AM »

If the deal is signed, then ALL the sspx property belongs to Rome. There's no negotiation on this point. It's like taking final vows at a monastery - you are voluntarily professing yourself, and all you own, to the organization. No going back.

For the last 5-10 years, it seems that the sspx has been consolidating the properties so that it is legally clear that the organization in Switzerland owns all properties, in all the different countries. Dealing with international real estate law is certainly complex. This is why Max Krah was involved...

Incredulous · « **Reply #10 on:** February 21, 2017, 11:18:01 AM »

Quote from: Matthew

It is a fact that the more mainstream you are, the better off you are materially.

For example, Indult priests certainly have a higher standard of living, more pay, and a much more "humane" (and less grueling) work schedule than, say, a Resistance priest.

Of course, a Resistance priest is basically just a Trad priest from the 1970's, or the early days of the Trad movement. Everything was small, disorganized, and in flux; priests and resources were few, etc.

It's simply the way things work. The more personnel you have, the more resources you have, and the larger the organization, the more orderly, regular, and predictable everything becomes. You start getting things like helpers, assistants, and days off. Even vacations are possible!

I know one thing: if I were a mercenary priest, I would be pushing for a deal with Rome too. More recognition and less stigma always translate into more people in the pews. And even though the priests don't get the whole collection, they still can receive gifts from parishioners, eat dinner with them, etc.

A couple of Scriptural quotes come to mind on this:

1. Matthew 6:20
But lay up to yourselves treasures in heaven: where neither the rust nor moth doth consume, and where thieves do not break through, nor steal.

2. Luke 7:25
But what went you out to see? a man clothed in soft garments? Behold they that are in costly apparel and live delicately, are in the houses of kings.

Last Tradhican · « **Reply #11 on:** February 21, 2017, 12:09:36 PM »

Quote from: Miseremini

Quote from: Last Tradhican

If Bp. Fellay signs an agreement giving control of their properties to Rome, it is the certain sign that the SSPX has been sold out by a traitor.

When the Anglicans got their personal prelature from Rome, a few who had property were able to keep it I believe, and also they are not under the local bishop but have their own bishop in Texas who covers all North America.

There's a modern example of how the properties can be kept. I doubt the Anglicans would give up their properties to the Vatican

Pax Vobis · « **Reply #12 on:** February 21, 2017, 12:24:32 PM »

Well, there's 2 ways of looking at the Anglican example.

1) The Anglicans 'kept' their properties, meaning, the properties were used 'as they are' and nothing changed, practically, in the daily operation of the church/community. This, I agree, would happen with the sspx (at least, for a while).

2) The Anglicans 'kept' their properties, in the sense that they still had full legal control of them. I would bet my life savings that this did NOT happen. And it will not happen with the sspx.

The point is, once the society makes a deal, they will probably be able to use the same chapels they currently do, but the CONTROL of such properties will be GONE. The properties will belong to rome. If at some point in the future, the society wakes up and says "oh my goodness, this was a mistake, we need to leave rome and go back to being independent." then they will have to leave without any money, property, vestments, missals, etc. They will leave with the clothes on their backs and have to start from scratch, like it was the 1970s.

Miseremini · « **Reply #13 on:** February 21, 2017, 05:57:03 PM »

Just a thot; not sure where my thinking is going with this, but,
1983 Code of Canon law says
"Note that offerings given for a specific purpose can be used by Church authorities only for that purpose" (1983 CIC 1267)

Now with the SSPX many donated to the brick and mortar chapel for the purpose of having the Traditional Mass offered there.
Therefore if Rome wanted to sell it mustn't they give back the donations?????

Their law not mine.

poche · « **Reply #14 on:** February 21, 2017, 11:43:28 PM »

Quote from: Miseremini

Just a thot; not sure where my thinking is going with this, but,
1983 Code of Canon law says
"Note that offerings given for a specific purpose can be used by Church authorities only for that purpose" (1983 CIC 1267)

Now with the SSPX many donated to the brick and mortar chapel for the purpose of having the Traditional Mass offered there.
Therefore if Rome wanted to sell it mustn't they give back the donations?????

Their law not mine.

it wouldn't be Rome that would be looking to control the properties.