Author Topic: If a Pope falls into heresy or schism (Read 1581 times)

sspxbvm · « **on:** June 10, 2013, 02:13:15 AM »

If a Pope falls into heresy or schism

Very convincing stuff.

bvmknight · « **Reply #1 on:** June 10, 2013, 10:10:37 AM »

Can you please tell me which book these quotes came from? Thank you!

Charlemagne · « **Reply #2 on:** June 10, 2013, 10:38:49 AM »

I think an even better question would be, what to do when the Conciliar Church "canonizes" JPII?

Zeitun · « **Reply #3 on:** June 10, 2013, 12:22:18 PM »

Guess you'll have to quit the Resistance.

bvmknight · « **Reply #4 on:** June 10, 2013, 12:25:25 PM »

Quote

I think an even better question would be, what to do when the Conciliar Church "canonizes" JPII?

....Or Paul VI

That is a good question.

Quote

Guess you'll have to quit the Resistance.

I don't understand.

songbird · « **Reply #5 on:** June 10, 2013, 05:34:52 PM »

One who, after baptism, retaining the name of Christian pertinaciously denies(rejects) or doubts a divinely revealed truth is a heretic and by that fact ceases to be Catholic. A heretic incurs ipso facto excommunication, automatically, without sentence of law. A heretic is not a Catholic and the pope must be a Catholic. St. Robert Bellarmine"Should a pope become a formal heretic he would by the very fact cease to be pope and could be judged and declared deposed by the Church". There is no such thing as a Heretic Pope.

songbird · « **Reply #6 on:** June 10, 2013, 05:48:23 PM »

Try Cardinal Manning, the Vatican council and its definitions, pp 245 -246

The one that is an exhausted subject is Honorius. Honorius in hes letters to Sergius, says, that he meant to define nothing, and he was condemned precisely because temporized and would not define. (vat. II Ratzinger and others refused to define, it would give them away as heretics.) Also Honorius did not have his letters addressed to a general council of the whole church. and were rather private., than public and official.

Read up on Vatican I. It is going answer your questions. That is how Infallibility came to be.

sspxbvm · « **Reply #7 on:** June 10, 2013, 11:21:28 PM »

Quote from: Zeitun

Guess you'll have to quit the Resistance.

Resisting error is a lifetime enterprise.

Maizar · « **Reply #8 on:** June 10, 2013, 11:27:43 PM »

Quote from: songbird

One who, after baptism, retaining the name of Christian pertinaciously denies(rejects) or doubts a divinely revealed truth is a heretic and by that fact ceases to be Catholic. A heretic incurs ipso facto excommunication, automatically, without sentence of law. A heretic is not a Catholic and the pope must be a Catholic. St. Robert Bellarmine"Should a pope become a formal heretic he would by the very fact cease to be pope and could be judged and declared deposed by the Church". There is no such thing as a Heretic Pope.

.. spot on.

Neil Obstat · « **Reply #9 on:** June 10, 2013, 11:38:50 PM »

.

"Pope" and "schism" are not compatible concepts. Schism is
separation from the pope. How does the Pope separate from
himself? He would have to cease to be pope. But who would be
the judge of that? All the bishops of the world could not convene
to legitimately depose a reigning pope. Only after he dies or
abdicates can a successor pope pronounce him as having ceased
to have been pope, and he would have to define the day and hour
and minute that took place.

sspxbvm · « **Reply #10 on:** June 11, 2013, 01:23:59 AM »

Quote from: Neil Obstat

.

"Pope" and "schism" are not compatible concepts. Schism is
separation from the pope. How does the Pope separate from
himself? He would have to cease to be pope. But who would be
the judge of that? All the bishops of the world could not convene
to legitimately depose a reigning pope. Only after he dies or
abdicates can a successor pope pronounce him as having ceased
to have been pope, and he would have to define the day and hour
and minute that took place.

This is not true. The pope deposes himself by becoming a heretic. A council has no authority to depose any pope as a council is not of higher authority. A council would merely affirm the heresy which deposed the pope in the first place.

Neil Obstat · « **Reply #11 on:** June 11, 2013, 06:27:26 AM »

Quote from: sspxbvm

Quote from: Neil Obstat
.

"Pope" and "schism" are not compatible concepts. Schism is
separation from the pope. How does the Pope separate from
himself? He would have to cease to be pope. But who would be
the judge of that? All the bishops of the world could not convene
to legitimately depose a reigning pope. Only after he dies or
abdicates can a successor pope pronounce him as having ceased
to have been pope, and he would have to define the day and hour
and minute that took place.

This is not true.

No, it IS true. You're ignorant. That's the problem.

Quote

The pope deposes himself by becoming a heretic. A council has no authority to depose any pope as a council is not of higher authority. A council would merely affirm the heresy which deposed the pope in the first place.

You've been listening to the sedevacantists, and now you're becoming one.

This is true, what I said, and you don't know it because you're deceived.

The Pope does not depose himself unless a future pope declares that
it happened. It's a FUTURE council WITH THE NEW POPE that has the
authority to depose a PREVIOUS pope. This has already happened in
the Church, but you don't know any Church history, so of course, you
are confused, listening to the sedevacantists.

Sad.

songbird · « **Reply #12 on:** June 11, 2013, 06:07:24 PM »

Read Vatican I! If you don't, you don't get the true definitions.

sspxbvm · « **Reply #13 on:** June 11, 2013, 11:54:34 PM »

Quote from: Neil Obstat

Quote from: sspxbvm
Quote from: Neil Obstat
.

"Pope" and "schism" are not compatible concepts. Schism is
separation from the pope. How does the Pope separate from
himself? He would have to cease to be pope. But who would be
the judge of that? All the bishops of the world could not convene
to legitimately depose a reigning pope. Only after he dies or
abdicates can a successor pope pronounce him as having ceased
to have been pope, and he would have to define the day and hour
and minute that took place.

This is not true.

No, it IS true. You're ignorant. That's the problem.

Quote
The pope deposes himself by becoming a heretic. A council has no authority to depose any pope as a council is not of higher authority. A council would merely affirm the heresy which deposed the pope in the first place.

You've been listening to the sedevacantists, and now you're becoming one.

This is true, what I said, and you don't know it because you're deceived.

The Pope does not depose himself unless a future pope declares that
it happened. It's a FUTURE council WITH THE NEW POPE that has the
authority to depose a PREVIOUS pope. This has already happened in
the Church, but you don't know any Church history, so of course, you
are confused, listening to the sedevacantists.

Sad.

Rash judgement, oh poor, presumptuous "learned one" blinded by pride and self-love, which is put on display on a daily basis (few people have so much time on their hands) on this website!! It is better to seek salutary advice from humble and upright persons than from learned persons who are proud.

If you want to have an honest debate quit being so haughty and then try to embarrass poor little me who am so humbled by your highness. Your style of debate is to offer put downs without any footnotes. Funny.

We are working not trying to reach only traditional Catholics but ALL Catholics so your petty, tiny words will never reach them.

For a very obvious reason you wish to discredit us on this end of cyber world. Your lack of charity in every post that doesn't meet with your agenda literally tears your mask off and leaves you stark naked for all to see (who want to). Why don't you tell everybody exactly how closely you work with Pablo and Father Pfeiffer??

Vigilance, my friends, vigilance!! Let's not be caught sleeping ...even in a "Resistance" sleeping bag...however safe it may seem.

BTW...why does NEIL OBSTAT keep resurfacing when I put him on ignore? Site updates?

Now, let us apply the Words of Our Lord to whatever response is made: "Therefore, by their fruits you shall know them."
:ready-to-eat: