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Author Topic: +Huonder to Consecrate SSPX Holy Oils  (Read 13723 times)

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Offline Plenus Venter

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Re: +Huonder to Consecrate SSPX Holy Oils
« Reply #90 on: April 11, 2023, 06:43:11 AM »
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    • Quote from: trento on April 10, 2023, 10:51:23 PM
    Obviously! But what I said was Mgr Lazo laid hands dressed as a bishop. Is this considered "putting lipstick on a pig" as another obnoxious commenter said earlier?














    Yes, doesn't look good in hindsight, does it?
    The important thing is, there was no risk to the validity of sacraments.
    The question of the validity of the new rite of Episcopal Consecration has obviously been more thoroughly studied since.
    It would be interesting to have Bishop Williamson's perspective on this. Is it something that was discussed among the Society bishops and superiors, or was it some kind of oversight? Perhaps Sean will address the issue in his next interview with BW?
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    Offline SeanJohnson

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    Re: +Huonder to Consecrate SSPX Holy Oils
    « Reply #91 on: April 11, 2023, 06:48:05 AM »
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    • Quote from: Plenus Venter on April 11, 2023, 06:43:11 AM
    It would be interesting to have Bishop Williamson's perspective on this. Is it something that was discussed among the Society bishops and superiors, or was it some kind of oversight? Perhaps Sean will address the issue in his next interview with BW?

    Some comments here, beginning at 25:53-

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    Online 2Vermont

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    Re: +Huonder to Consecrate SSPX Holy Oils
    « Reply #92 on: April 11, 2023, 07:16:53 AM »
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    • Quote from: Jr1991 on April 09, 2023, 07:24:44 PM
    Yes, the SSPX probably threatened Gloria Tv to take the video down. The video has serious ramifications, and it probably upset the SSPX money train.
    Both the German and English SSPX sites have no record of it, except for a general article teaching what happens at such a mass referencing "the bishop".  They aren't even denying that it was him or that some other bishop consecrated the oils.  Just nothing.
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    Offline Plenus Venter

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    Re: +Huonder to Consecrate SSPX Holy Oils
    « Reply #93 on: April 11, 2023, 07:50:40 PM »
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    • Quote from: SeanJohnson on April 11, 2023, 06:48:05 AM
    Some comments here, beginning at 25:53-


    Thanks Sean.
    Good to hear that again.
    It is unfortunate that His Excellency doesn't draw the necessary conclusion, like Fr Calderon in the material you provided, that such a doubt cannot be tolerated when it comes to the administration of the sacraments. I think perhaps his aging brain got lost in his philosophizing and went off on a bit of a tangent.
    It would be interesting to know what the talk was among the SSPX bishops and superiors in relation to Mgr Lazo, or was it completely overlooked?

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    Online 2Vermont

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    Re: +Huonder to Consecrate SSPX Holy Oils
    « Reply #94 on: April 11, 2023, 08:02:50 PM »
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    • There are actually people who are now questioning whether he ever did do the consecration of the oils.  Because there is no evidence. What morons.

    Well played SSPX. Well played.
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    Offline Ladislaus

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    Re: +Huonder to Consecrate SSPX Holy Oils
    « Reply #95 on: April 11, 2023, 08:58:24 PM »
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    • Quote from: 2Vermont on April 11, 2023, 08:02:50 PM
    Well played SSPX. Well played.

    This ^^^
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    Offline SeanJohnson

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    Re: +Huonder to Consecrate SSPX Holy Oils
    « Reply #96 on: April 11, 2023, 09:04:51 PM »
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    • Quote from: 2Vermont on April 11, 2023, 08:02:50 PM
    There are actually people who are now questioning whether he ever did do the consecration of the oils.  Because there is no evidence. What morons.

    Well played SSPX. Well played.

    Still, some archivists are keeping up with the charade (and backing up their data) 😉.
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    Offline trento

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    Re: +Huonder to Consecrate SSPX Holy Oils
    « Reply #97 on: April 11, 2023, 11:22:19 PM »
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    • Quote from: Plenus Venter on April 11, 2023, 07:50:40 PM
    Thanks Sean.
    Good to hear that again.
    It is unfortunate that His Excellency doesn't draw the necessary conclusion, like Fr Calderon in the material you provided, that such a doubt cannot be tolerated when it comes to the administration of the sacraments. I think perhaps his aging brain got lost in his philosophizing and went off on a bit of a tangent.
    It would be interesting to know what the talk was among the SSPX bishops and superiors in relation to Mgr Lazo, or was it completely overlooked?

    Why not someone ask Fr. Morgan about it since he was the Philippines superior at that time?
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    Offline SeanJohnson

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    Re: +Huonder to Consecrate SSPX Holy Oils
    « Reply #98 on: April 16, 2023, 07:34:22 AM »
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    • If the SSPX hasn’t already received a canonical approval (possibly, but not certainly implicit in the Argentine recognition) “in pectore,” which would explain many things (eg., using ICK priests to staff its African chapels, acquiescing in the COVID19 shot, sending the 2018 General Chapter results to Rome for ratification, having Huonder consecrate holy oils, receive jurisdiction for confessions, General refusal to attack V2 from the pulpit, etc.), this further extension and progression of Huonder’s activity within the SSPX may have set the table for it.

    Recall the pitch marketed by the SSPX that Huonder just wanted to retire there (whereas we docuмented his being sent by Francis expressly to report on and help the Society’s progress toward conciliar reintegration).

    To gradually progress from wanting a nice place to sleep, to consecrating holy oils is quite the expansion.  Rome must be pleased.  And if holy oils fly without protest, why not bishops?

    A priest in Winona when I was there during and after the Campos capitulation told me that Rome had quietly sanated their marriages, unannounced.  Given that the Protocol signed, then rejected by Lefebvre also included a provision proposed by Rome to sanate SSPX marriages “ad cautelam” (ie., just in case), I can’t shake the thought that something similar has been done with the Society.

    It would be unprovable and unknowable, barring an admission, of course, but would explain many puzzling things (like those mentioned above).
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    Offline SeanJohnson

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    Re: +Huonder to Consecrate SSPX Holy Oils
    « Reply #99 on: April 17, 2023, 10:22:13 PM »
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    • Quote from: SeanJohnson on April 16, 2023, 07:34:22 AM
    If the SSPX hasn’t already received a canonical approval (possibly, but not certainly implicit in the Argentine recognition) “in pectore,” which would explain many things (eg., using ICK priests to staff its African chapels, acquiescing in the COVID19 shot, sending the 2018 General Chapter results to Rome for ratification, having Huonder consecrate holy oils, receive jurisdiction for confessions, General refusal to attack V2 from the pulpit, etc.), this further extension and progression of Huonder’s activity within the SSPX may have set the table for it.

    Recall the pitch marketed by the SSPX that Huonder just wanted to retire there (whereas we docuмented his being sent by Francis expressly to report on and help the Society’s progress toward conciliar reintegration).

    To gradually progress from wanting a nice place to sleep, to consecrating holy oils is quite the expansion.  Rome must be pleased.  And if holy oils fly without protest, why not bishops?

    A priest in Winona when I was there during and after the Campos capitulation told me that Rome had quietly sanated their marriages, unannounced.  Given that the Protocol signed, then rejected by Lefebvre also included a provision proposed by Rome to sanate SSPX marriages “ad cautelam” (ie., just in case), I can’t shake the thought that something similar has been done with the Society.

    It would be unprovable and unknowable, barring an admission, of course, but would explain many puzzling things (like those mentioned above).

    Remember this one^^^
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    Offline St Giles

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    Re: +Huonder to Consecrate SSPX Holy Oils
    « Reply #100 on: April 17, 2023, 11:45:05 PM »
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    • Quote from: SeanJohnson on April 16, 2023, 07:34:22 AM
    Rome had quietly sanated their marriages, unannounced.  Given that the Protocol signed, then rejected by Lefebvre also included a provision proposed by Rome to sanate SSPX marriages “ad cautelam” (ie., just in case), I can’t shake the thought that something similar has been done with the Society.
    What does sanate mean? 
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    Offline SeanJohnson

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    Re: +Huonder to Consecrate SSPX Holy Oils
    « Reply #101 on: April 17, 2023, 11:53:17 PM »
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    • Quote from: St Giles on April 17, 2023, 11:45:05 PM
    What does sanate mean?

    SANATION

    The canonical pricess by which an invalid marriage is validated retroactively, back to the time when the contract was first made. Renewal of consent is not required once the impediments are dispensed. Thus, by a sort of legal fiction, the marriage will have been considered valid from the beginning. It is especially useful in the legitimation of children already born. Sanation may also be imperfect, thus not retroactive to the time of the original contract.
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    Offline trento

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    Re: +Huonder to Consecrate SSPX Holy Oils
    « Reply #102 on: April 18, 2023, 02:26:30 AM »
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    • Quote from: Plenus Venter on April 11, 2023, 07:50:40 PM
    Thanks Sean.
    Good to hear that again.
    It is unfortunate that His Excellency doesn't draw the necessary conclusion, like Fr Calderon in the material you provided, that such a doubt cannot be tolerated when it comes to the administration of the sacraments. I think perhaps his aging brain got lost in his philosophizing and went off on a bit of a tangent.
    It would be interesting to know what the talk was among the SSPX bishops and superiors in relation to Mgr Lazo, or was it completely overlooked?

    So is my understanding correct that +Williamson is accepting the validity of Mgr Huonder's orders while some Resistance priests and lay folks do not?
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    Offline SeanJohnson

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    Re: +Huonder to Consecrate SSPX Holy Oils
    « Reply #103 on: April 18, 2023, 03:54:28 AM »
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    • Quote from: trento on April 18, 2023, 02:26:30 AM
    So is my understanding correct that +Williamson is accepting the validity of Mgr Huonder's orders while some Resistance priests and lay folks do not?

    He thinks they’re probably, but not certainly, valid.
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    Offline SeanJohnson

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    Re: +Huonder to Consecrate SSPX Holy Oils
    « Reply #104 on: April 18, 2023, 04:30:19 AM »
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    • The Non Possumus Blog obtained this suppressed pic of Bishop (?) Huonder consecrating (?) the holy oils, assisted by Fathers Jeindl and Schreiber (SSPX).

    http://nonpossumus-vcr.blogspot.com/2023/04/non-possumus-tuvo-acceso-una-de-las.html?m=1
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