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Author Topic: +Huonder to Consecrate SSPX Holy Oils  (Read 13723 times)

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Offline SeanJohnson

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+Huonder to Consecrate SSPX Holy Oils
« on: April 05, 2023, 07:17:47 AM »
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  • “We must be patient.  What is important is that there no longer be rejection in their hearts.  Gradually, we must expect further steps, like concelebration.” (Fr. Cottier, on his conquest of Campos)

    Or, apparently, the acceptance of conciliar ministration for critical functions and necessities of the SSPX apostolate:

    When Francis sent retired Swiss Bishop Vitus Huonder to live with the SSPX at its boys school, the Society played it off as though Huonder was converting to Tradition, whereas my book “As We Are?” docuмented Huonder being sent by Francis to keep him abreast of, and further, SSPX reintegration.

    It appears now that this stratagem has been so effective, and born so much conciliar fruit for Francis, that the SSPX’s German seminary schedule for Holy Week announces that +Huonder will be the one to celebrate the Holy Thursday Chrism Mass (and consequently be the one to consecrate SSPX holy oils)!

    https://fsspx.today/chapel/zaitzkofen/#d-2023-04-06

    Slowly, slowly, the deterioration of the SSPX progresses, as it slides into conciliarism.

    Is this a Roman-Menzingen agreement to further condition the faithful (who have already accepted the ministration of Ecclesia Dei priests at African SSPX chapels) to accept conciliar episcopal consecration for their own future bishops?
    Rom 5: 20 - "But where sin increased, grace abounded all the more."

    Offline AnthonyPadua

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    Re: +Huonder to Consecrate SSPX Holy Oils
    « Reply #1 on: April 05, 2023, 07:26:43 AM »
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  • “We must be patient.  What is important is that there no longer be rejection in their hearts.  Gradually, we must expect further steps, like concelebration.”

    Or, apparently, the acceptance of conciliar ministration for critical functions and necessities of the SSPX apostolate:

    When Francis sent retired Swiss Bishop Vitus Huonder to live with the SSPX at its boys school, the Society played it off as though Huonder was converting to Tradition, whereas my book “As We Are?” docuмented Huonder being sent by Francis to keep him abreast of, and further, SSPX reintegration.

    It appears now that this stratagem has been so effective, and born so much conciliar fruit for Francis, that the SSPX’s German seminary schedule for Holy Week announces that +Huonder will be the one to celebrate the Holy Thursday Chrism Mass (and consequently be the one to consecrate SSPX holy oils)!

    https://fsspx.today/chapel/zaitzkofen/#d-2023-04-06

    Slowly, slowly, the deterioration of the SSPX progresses, as it slides into conciliarism.

    Is this a Roman-Menzingen agreement to further condition the faithful (who have already accepted the ministration of Ecclesia Dei priests at African SSPX chapels) to accept conciliar episcopal consecration for their own future bishops?
    Bishop Vitus Huonder is a novus ordo bishop right? This seems like it's going to have a big effect on the validity of the future SSPX clergy.


    Offline Ladislaus

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    Re: +Huonder to Consecrate SSPX Holy Oils
    « Reply #2 on: April 05, 2023, 07:53:11 AM »
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  • Bishop Vitus Huonder is a novus ordo bishop right? This seems like it's going to have a big effect on the validity of the future SSPX clergy.

    Yes, he was "consecrated" in the new rite.  In fact, he was also "ordained" in the new rite, in 1971.  So Huonder may not even be a priest, much less a bishop ... for those who have concerns about the new rites of orders.

    It's getting worse and worse with neo-SSPX.  Before going to an SSPX chapel, one now has to investigate whether any NO priest had been through there in recent days/weeks.

    Offline Yeti

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    Re: +Huonder to Consecrate SSPX Holy Oils
    « Reply #3 on: April 05, 2023, 08:10:05 AM »
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  • This is very disturbing. I believe the sacrament of Extreme Unction requires "oil consecrated by a bishop for this sacrament" in order to be valid, so if this is a bishop consecrated in the new modernist rite of Holy Orders, anyone anointed using his oils would not receive the sacrament of Extreme Unction.

    I don't think a priest can validly consecrate holy oils, but I'd have to look that up. And that's assuming this guy is validly ordained a priest, also.

    Offline Cornelius935

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    Re: +Huonder to Consecrate SSPX Holy Oils
    « Reply #4 on: April 05, 2023, 01:04:42 PM »
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  • I foresaw Huonder's functioning as a “Society bishop” (because he celebrated some Pontifical High Masses), but not so soon, and not for consecrating holy oils, on which the validity of other Sacraments depend... I thought they would first let him administer Confirmations, then slowly let him take over more and more episcopal duties. This is serious and shocking.

    What's the point of the SSPX administering conditional Confirmations, if their Chrism is only a little “less doubtful” than oils from the Novus Ordo. Now those SSPX faithful “Confirmed” with oils from Huonder's “Chrism Mass” will need to receive conditional Confirmations from the Resistance or elsewhere.

    The only thing we can expect from Menzingen, is that they will keep coming up with new ways to exceed our expectations in their further destruction of the SSPX.


    Offline josefamenendez

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    Re: +Huonder to Consecrate SSPX Holy Oils
    « Reply #5 on: April 05, 2023, 01:30:30 PM »
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  • Does the Neo-SSPX do conditional confirmations anymore? I don't think they have for a very long time

    Offline Confiteor Deo

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    Re: +Huonder to Consecrate SSPX Holy Oils
    « Reply #6 on: April 05, 2023, 03:43:52 PM »
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  • This is a screenshot from 39 minutes 50 seconds into this docuмentary in French about Huonder.  https://odysee.com/@adext:e/S2E8:c

    Offline Ladislaus

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    Re: +Huonder to Consecrate SSPX Holy Oils
    « Reply #7 on: April 05, 2023, 04:37:06 PM »
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  • This is a screenshot from 39 minutes 50 seconds into this docuмentary in French about Huonder.  https://odysee.com/@adext:e/S2E8:c

    Excellent.  Archbishop Lefebvre:  "All Sacraments from the Modernist bishops or priests are doubtful now."

    So we have SSPX subjecting seminarians and the lay faithful to Sacraments that their founder declared "all doubtful now" in 1988.


    Offline MiracleOfTheSun

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    Re: +Huonder to Consecrate SSPX Holy Oils
    « Reply #8 on: April 05, 2023, 05:03:16 PM »
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  • When one considers the magnitude of what that letter actually and factually states, it boggles the mind.
     
    So what the hell is Goodship Lollipop, I mean the SSPX, doing?  Teaming up Smiley and +H (doubtful), and peddling their cover-ups and endless number of watering downs to lay people who get to bank roll huge churches and seminaries for tens of millions of dollars?  It ain't like this is news in the SSPX world.  This has been going on since GREC - and that's saying something.


    Offline SeanJohnson

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    Re: +Huonder to Consecrate SSPX Holy Oils
    « Reply #9 on: April 05, 2023, 05:09:35 PM »
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  • Excellent.  Archbishop Lefebvre:  "All Sacraments from the Modernist bishops or priests are doubtful now."

    So we have SSPX subjecting seminarians and the lay faithful to Sacraments that their founder declared "all doubtful now" in 1988.

    Combine that letter (which pertains to intention) with this one (which pertains to form in the new rite of episcopal consecration) of +de Mallerais in 1998:

    http://www.fathercekada.com/2013/11/28/sspx-bishops-on-bishops-and-bishops/




    "Thank you for sending me a copy of Dr. Rama Coomarawamy’s pamphlet “Le Drame Anglican.”

    After reading it quickly, I concluded there was a doubt about the validity of episcopal consecration conferred according to the rite of Paul VI.
    The [phrase] “spiritum principalem” in the form introduced by Paul VI is not sufficiently clear in itself and the accessory rites do not specify its meaning in a Catholic sense.
    As regards Mgr Lazo, it would be difficult for us to explain these things to him; the only solution is not to ask him to confirm or ordain.
    Yours very truly in Our Lord Jesus Christ,
    +Bernard Tissier de Mallerais
    PS: Another thought: Mgr Lazo has already confirmed “quite a few” [people] with us. Obviously, this is valid because “the Church supplies” (canon 209), because a simple priest can confirm with jurisdiction. And it is difficult to see how to make our doubt known to Mgr Lazo. So silence and discretion about this, please!
    Rom 5: 20 - "But where sin increased, grace abounded all the more."

    Offline SeanJohnson

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    Re: +Huonder to Consecrate SSPX Holy Oils
    « Reply #10 on: April 05, 2023, 05:33:19 PM »
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  • Combine that letter (which pertains to intention) with this one (which pertains to form in the new rite of episcopal consecration) of +de Mallerais in 1998:

    http://www.fathercekada.com/2013/11/28/sspx-bishops-on-bishops-and-bishops/




    "Thank you for sending me a copy of Dr. Rama Coomarawamy’s pamphlet “Le Drame Anglican.”

    After reading it quickly, I concluded there was a doubt about the validity of episcopal consecration conferred according to the rite of Paul VI.
    The [phrase] “spiritum principalem” in the form introduced by Paul VI is not sufficiently clear in itself and the accessory rites do not specify its meaning in a Catholic sense.
    As regards Mgr Lazo, it would be difficult for us to explain these things to him; the only solution is not to ask him to confirm or ordain.
    Yours very truly in Our Lord Jesus Christ,
    +Bernard Tissier de Mallerais
    PS: Another thought: Mgr Lazo has already confirmed “quite a few” [people] with us. Obviously, this is valid because “the Church supplies” (canon 209), because a simple priest can confirm with jurisdiction. And it is difficult to see how to make our doubt known to Mgr Lazo. So silence and discretion about this, please!

    Note this critical phrase by +de Mallerais:

    "...and the accessory rites do not specify its meaning in a Catholic sense.

    In making reference to "the accessory rites" (i.e., other parts of the form), +de Mallerais appears to be saying that the ambiguity of the essential form of the NREC is not resolved by the principle "significatio ex adiunctis" (i.e., a principle of sacramental theology which states that, where the essential form of a sacramental rite does not expressly mention the the power and grace conferred by a sacrament -thereby presenting an ambiguity- but said power and/or grace is said in other parts of the rite, then these accessory parts of the rite can be used to resolve the ambiguity).
    Rom 5: 20 - "But where sin increased, grace abounded all the more."


    Offline HeavyHanded

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    Re: +Huonder to Consecrate SSPX Holy Oils
    « Reply #11 on: April 05, 2023, 06:49:29 PM »
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  • Do you have an english source for this?

    Offline SeanJohnson

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    Re: +Huonder to Consecrate SSPX Holy Oils
    « Reply #12 on: April 05, 2023, 06:58:58 PM »
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  • Do you have an english source for this?

    An English translation of +de Mallerais’s letter can be found here:

    http://www.fathercekada.com/2013/11/28/sspx-bishops-on-bishops-and-bishops/

    Or, if you were referring to the principle significatio ex adiunctis, it is referenced in the index of Michael Davies’ Order of Melchizedek.
    Rom 5: 20 - "But where sin increased, grace abounded all the more."

    Offline Ladislaus

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    Re: +Huonder to Consecrate SSPX Holy Oils
    « Reply #13 on: April 05, 2023, 07:14:10 PM »
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  • Or, if you were referring to the principle significatio ex adiunctis, it is referenced in the index of Michael Davies’ Order of Melchizedek.

    Right, and the principle wasn't invented by Davies.  It comes from Pope Leo XIII in his analysis of the Anglican Orders.

    Offline AnthonyPadua

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    Re: +Huonder to Consecrate SSPX Holy Oils
    « Reply #14 on: April 05, 2023, 07:26:04 PM »
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  • I foresaw Huonder's functioning as a “Society bishop” (because he celebrated some Pontifical High Masses), but not so soon, and not for consecrating holy oils, on which the validity of other Sacraments depend... I thought they would first let him administer Confirmations, then slowly let him take over more and more episcopal duties. This is serious and shocking.

    What's the point of the SSPX administering conditional Confirmations, if their Chrism is only a little “less doubtful” than oils from the Novus Ordo. Now those SSPX faithful “Confirmed” with oils from Huonder's “Chrism Mass” will need to receive conditional Confirmations from the Resistance or elsewhere.

    The only thing we can expect from Menzingen, is that they will keep coming up with new ways to exceed our expectations in their further destruction of the SSPX.
    Oh dear I didn't consider confirmation. I was "confirmed" in the novus ordo so I don't believe my confirmation is valid and was hoping to get a conditional confirmation with the SSPX in the future, this is definitely going to be a big problem.