Send CathInfo's owner Matthew a gift from his Amazon wish list:
https://www.amazon.com/hz/wishlist/ls/25M2B8RERL1UO

Author Topic: +Huonder to Consecrate SSPX Holy Oils  (Read 13712 times)

0 Members and 1 Guest are viewing this topic.

Offline Giovanni Berto

  • Full Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 1338
  • Reputation: +1083/-81
  • Gender: Male
Re: +Huonder to Consecrate SSPX Holy Oils
« Reply #75 on: April 09, 2023, 03:01:20 PM »
  • Thanks!1
  • No Thanks!0
  • https://fsspx.de/de/news-events/news/was-lehrt-die-bisch%C3%B6fliche-liturgie-der-%C3%B6lweihe-am-gr%C3%BCndonnerstag-%C3%BCber-das

    They cut 'Bp.' Huonder out of all/most of the pics, wow
    This is simply ridiculous.

    It is unfitting to the priestly state to act in such ridiculous manner.

    How can you have a public ceremony on which the celebrant is kept hidden?

    Sacraments are public. This is simply humiliating to the faithful. Having priests and bishops who act in secret.

    To me, this is a new level of decadence. Men don't act like this. Real catholic priests don't act like this. 

    I hope that the SSPX spies who watch this forum read this. This is simply not manly.

    Offline Jr1991

    • Full Member
    • ***
    • Posts: 719
    • Reputation: +327/-90
    • Gender: Male
    Re: +Huonder to Consecrate SSPX Holy Oils
    « Reply #76 on: April 09, 2023, 07:24:44 PM »
  • Thanks!0
  • No Thanks!0
  • Video is gone now.

    Yes, the SSPX probably threatened Gloria Tv to take the video down. The video has serious ramifications, and it probably upset the SSPX money train. 


    Offline Jr1991

    • Full Member
    • ***
    • Posts: 719
    • Reputation: +327/-90
    • Gender: Male
    Re: +Huonder to Consecrate SSPX Holy Oils
    « Reply #77 on: April 09, 2023, 07:30:23 PM »
  • Thanks!0
  • No Thanks!0
  • THE NEO-FSSPX PUBLISHES 19 PHOTOS OF THE CONSECRATION (?) FROM THE OILS BY THE BISHOP (?) HUONDER, BUT NONE OF THEM SEE HIS FACE


    Non Possumus: THE NEO-FSSPX PUBLISHES 19 PHOTOS OF THE CONSECRATION (?) FROM THE OILS BY THE BISHOP (?) HUONDER, BUT NONE OF THEM SEE HIS FACE (nonpossumus-vcr.blogspot.com)

    Offline SeanJohnson

    • Hero Member
    • *****
    • Posts: 15060
    • Reputation: +10006/-3162
    • Gender: Male
    Re: +Huonder to Consecrate SSPX Holy Oils
    « Reply #78 on: April 09, 2023, 07:36:44 PM »
  • Thanks!0
  • No Thanks!0
  • John 3: 20-21:

    "For every one that doth evil hateth the light and cometh not to the light, that his works may not be reproved. But he that doth truth cometh to the light, that his works may be made manifest: because they are done in God."
    Rom 5: 20 - "But where sin increased, grace abounded all the more."

    Offline trento

    • Full Member
    • ***
    • Posts: 800
    • Reputation: +226/-144
    • Gender: Male
    Re: +Huonder to Consecrate SSPX Holy Oils
    « Reply #79 on: April 09, 2023, 10:29:57 PM »
  • Thanks!1
  • No Thanks!1
  • This type of speculation does not help resolve this issue. For such a serious matter, it would be morally wrong for the SSPX to give the impression that the Huonder is legit and push his "ministry" upon the faithful, all in the name of human respect. Real men cannot make competent decisions based on wishful thinking, especially when it comes to the Sacraments.

    In the mid-1990s when Fr. Morgan was superior in the Philippines, Mgr Lazo was allowed to function as a bishop, doing confirmations, and partaking of ordinations in Econe as a a bishop. The crux of the matter is whether or not praxis has changed.


    Offline SeanJohnson

    • Hero Member
    • *****
    • Posts: 15060
    • Reputation: +10006/-3162
    • Gender: Male
    Re: +Huonder to Consecrate SSPX Holy Oils
    « Reply #80 on: April 10, 2023, 06:23:22 AM »
  • Thanks!0
  • No Thanks!0
  • In the mid-1990s when Fr. Morgan was superior in the Philippines, Mgr Lazo was allowed to function as a bishop, doing confirmations, and partaking of ordinations in Econe as a a bishop. The crux of the matter is whether or not praxis has changed.

    +Lazo publicly rejected Roman modernism, and modernist Rome, whereas +Huonder was sent by modernist Rome to help reintegrate the SSPX into modernist Rome.

    The two contrast sharply.

    As regards Fr. Morgan allowing +Lazo to “partake of ordinations,” what exactly does this mean?  If you are suggesting +Lazo ordained SSPX priests, please supply the proof.  Were it true, which I very much doubt, those priests would be under the same cloud as all conciliar ordained priests.

    As far as +Huonder performing confirmation, it does not resolve doubts about the validity of his consecration (per +Tissier’s letter expressing them, and acknowledging even a simple priest can perform them in necessity), which is yet another difference between the two: Hounder was ordained in the new rite; +Lazo in the old (ie., Huonder’s confirmations would remain doubtful, where +Lazo’s would not).

    Neither does any of your post dispel doubts regarding the oils, which can only be consecrated by a bishop.

    Finally, one must be allowed to wonder: If +Lazo had lived in the 2010’s, and said the same things of modernist Rome he said in the late ‘90’s, would the Society still have collaborated with him? Given the persona non grata posture they have taken toward +Vigano, one must be allowed to doubt it.
    Rom 5: 20 - "But where sin increased, grace abounded all the more."

    Offline SeanJohnson

    • Hero Member
    • *****
    • Posts: 15060
    • Reputation: +10006/-3162
    • Gender: Male
    Re: +Huonder to Consecrate SSPX Holy Oils
    « Reply #81 on: April 10, 2023, 06:50:25 AM »
  • Thanks!0
  • No Thanks!0
  • For more on the contrast between +Lazo  and +Huonder, and the real reason the latter came to the SSPX, see here (at #27):

    https://www.cathinfo.com/sspx-resistance-news/catalog-of-compromise-change-and-contradiction-in-the-sspx/15/ 
    Rom 5: 20 - "But where sin increased, grace abounded all the more."

    Offline DustyActual

    • Newbie
    • *
    • Posts: 137
    • Reputation: +95/-3
    • Gender: Male
    Re: +Huonder to Consecrate SSPX Holy Oils
    « Reply #82 on: April 10, 2023, 07:35:40 AM »
  • Thanks!0
  • No Thanks!0
  • +Lazo publicly rejected Roman modernism, and modernist Rome, whereas +Huonder was sent by modernist Rome to help reintegrate the SSPX into modernist Rome.

    The two contrast sharply.

    As regards Fr. Morgan allowing +Lazo to “partake of ordinations,” what exactly does this mean?  If you are suggesting +Lazo ordained SSPX priests, please supply the proof.  Were it true, which I very much doubt, those priests would be under the same cloud as all conciliar ordained priests.

    As far as +Huonder performing confirmation, it does not resolve doubts about the validity of his consecration (per +Tissier’s letter expressing them, and acknowledging even a simple priest can perform them in necessity), which is yet another difference between the two: Hounder was ordained in the new rite; +Lazo in the old (ie., Huonder’s confirmations would remain doubtful, where +Lazo’s would not).

    Neither does any of your post dispel doubts regarding the oils, which can only be consecrated by a bishop.

    Finally, one must be allowed to wonder: If +Lazo had lived in the 2010’s, and said the same things of modernist Rome he said in the late ‘90’s, would the Society still have collaborated with him? Given the persona non grata posture they have taken toward +Vigano, one must be allowed to doubt it.
    True, Bishop Lazo did repudiate vatican 2 and the new mass, but he was still consecrated a bishop in the new rite; I don't think confirmations would be valid if a bishop is doubtfully consecrated, but validly ordained as a priest. This does open the question about the episcopacy; why is it that when a priest is given the delegation by his bishop to confirm, it's valid, but when he isn't given a delegation it's invalid? On the other hand, eastern rite priests have always been able to validly confirm.
    Go to Jesus through Our Lady.


    Offline SeanJohnson

    • Hero Member
    • *****
    • Posts: 15060
    • Reputation: +10006/-3162
    • Gender: Male
    Re: +Huonder to Consecrate SSPX Holy Oils
    « Reply #83 on: April 10, 2023, 07:45:53 AM »
  • Thanks!0
  • No Thanks!0
  • True, Bishop Lazo did repudiate vatican 2 and the new mass, but he was still consecrated a bishop in the new rite; I don't think confirmations would be valid if a bishop is doubtfully consecrated, but validly ordained as a priest. This does open the question about the episcopacy; why is it that when a priest is given the delegation by his bishop to confirm, it's valid, but when he isn't given a delegation it's invalid? On the other hand, eastern rite priests have always been able to validly confirm.

    There would be no doubt regarding the validity of confirmations administered by a certainly validly ordained priest who received delegation from his bishop.

    The salient point here is that the SSPX didn’t use +Lazo in such a capacity which would engender doubts, in light of his consecration in the new rite (as it is now using +Huonder).
    Rom 5: 20 - "But where sin increased, grace abounded all the more."

    Offline 2Vermont

    • Hero Member
    • *****
    • Posts: 11440
    • Reputation: +6398/-1149
    • Gender: Female
    Re: +Huonder to Consecrate SSPX Holy Oils
    « Reply #84 on: April 10, 2023, 07:54:03 AM »
  • Thanks!0
  • No Thanks!0
  • There would be no doubt regarding the validity of confirmations administered by a certainly validly ordained priest who received delegation from his bishop.

    The salient point here is that the SSPX didn’t use +Lazo in such a capacity which would engender doubts, in light of his consecration in the new rite (as it is now using +Huonder).
    Did New Rite Bishop Lazo ordain priests? If so, there certainly would be doubts as to the validity of those priests.  And given this most recent news, how would we ever know for sure?

    Offline SeanJohnson

    • Hero Member
    • *****
    • Posts: 15060
    • Reputation: +10006/-3162
    • Gender: Male
    Re: +Huonder to Consecrate SSPX Holy Oils
    « Reply #85 on: April 10, 2023, 08:01:36 AM »
  • Thanks!0
  • No Thanks!0
  • Did New Rite Bishop Lazo ordain priests? If so, there certainly would be doubts as to the validity of those priests.

    I have never heard that he did, but Trento’s ambiguous post could be read as suggesting he did.

    I have requested proof, if this is what he is claiming.

    Supposing he did (which again would be highly doubtful, particularly in light of +de Mallerais’ doubts expressed in the published letter on the issue of +Lazo and the NREC), yes, all the same doubts would apply to his ordinations.

    But again, Trento’s unsupported and ambiguous statement is the first time I’ve seen this claim made (which unless he can substantiate it, is to be rapidly discarded):

    ”That which is alleged without proof, can be dismissed without proof.”
    Rom 5: 20 - "But where sin increased, grace abounded all the more."


    Offline trento

    • Full Member
    • ***
    • Posts: 800
    • Reputation: +226/-144
    • Gender: Male
    Re: +Huonder to Consecrate SSPX Holy Oils
    « Reply #86 on: April 10, 2023, 11:13:01 AM »
  • Thanks!0
  • No Thanks!0
  • I have never heard that he did, but Trento’s ambiguous post could be read as suggesting he did.

    I have requested proof, if this is what he is claiming.

    Supposing he did (which again would be highly doubtful, particularly in light of +de Mallerais’ doubts expressed in the published letter on the issue of +Lazo and the NREC), yes, all the same doubts would apply to his ordinations.

    But again, Trento’s unsupported and ambiguous statement is the first time I’ve seen this claim made (which unless he can substantiate it, is to be rapidly discarded):

    ”That which is alleged without proof, can be dismissed without proof.”

    I didn't claim that he personally ordained SSPX priests. But when he was in Econe for the annual priestly ordinations in June, he was indeed dressed as a bishop and laid his hands on them. I'm quite certain he did confirmations, as attested by +Tissier's note above and in pictures available on the Internet.

    Offline SeanJohnson

    • Hero Member
    • *****
    • Posts: 15060
    • Reputation: +10006/-3162
    • Gender: Male
    Re: +Huonder to Consecrate SSPX Holy Oils
    « Reply #87 on: April 10, 2023, 11:20:46 AM »
  • Thanks!0
  • No Thanks!0
  • I didn't claim that he personally ordained SSPX priests. But when he was in Econe for the annual priestly ordinations in June, he was indeed dressed as a bishop and laid his hands on them. I'm quite certain he did confirmations, as attested by +Tissier's note above and in pictures available on the Internet.

    Thank you for the clarification.
    Rom 5: 20 - "But where sin increased, grace abounded all the more."

    Offline Plenus Venter

    • Full Member
    • ***
    • Posts: 1525
    • Reputation: +1248/-97
    • Gender: Male
    Re: +Huonder to Consecrate SSPX Holy Oils
    « Reply #88 on: April 10, 2023, 07:09:44 PM »
  • Thanks!0
  • No Thanks!0
  • I didn't claim that he personally ordained SSPX priests. But when he was in Econe for the annual priestly ordinations in June, he was indeed dressed as a bishop and laid his hands on them. I'm quite certain he did confirmations, as attested by +Tissier's note above and in pictures available on the Internet.
    All the PRIESTS present at the ceremony participate in the laying on of hands:

    Watch from 3:15


    Offline trento

    • Full Member
    • ***
    • Posts: 800
    • Reputation: +226/-144
    • Gender: Male
    Re: +Huonder to Consecrate SSPX Holy Oils
    « Reply #89 on: April 10, 2023, 10:51:23 PM »
  • Thanks!0
  • No Thanks!0
  • All the PRIESTS present at the ceremony participate in the laying on of hands:

    Watch from 3:15



    Obviously! But what I said was Mgr Lazo laid hands dressed as a bishop. Is this considered "putting lipstick on a pig" as another obnoxious commenter said earlier?