Catholic Info
Traditional Catholic Faith => SSPX Resistance News => Topic started by: jman123 on April 09, 2016, 10:26:39 PM
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That docuмent by Pope Francis is terrible. What do you think the SSPX will now do ?
In contrast, what would Archishop Lefebvre have said?
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That docuмent by Pope Francis is terrible. What do you think the SSPX will now do ?
In contrast, what would Archishop Lefebvre have said?
I can tell you my priest today spoke strongly against it, I think it's a good litmus test at least for my chapel that they are still orthodox , I think if he were to ignore it or justify it in any way I would seriously think about leaving...can't speak for other chapels but for now I don't see any reason to leave my sspx chapel..I'd like to hear some other's take on this
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iman:
That docuмent by Pope Francis is terrible.
Can you point to specific parts of it which are terrible? I'm trying to plow through this very long docuмent now. Maybe I'm trying to read it too fast. But thus far anyway I haven't found anything "terrible." Help me out.
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iman: That docuмent by Pope Francis is terrible.
Can you point to specific parts of it which are terrible? I'm trying to plow through this very long docuмent now. Maybe I'm trying to read it too fast. But thus far anyway I haven't found anything "terrible." Help me out.
Hardly surprising, since you can't find anything wrong with Valtorta either.
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ultra:
Hardly surprising, since you can't find anything wrong with Valtorta either.
Cheap shot. Still no answer to my question. Anyone? I would prefer that somebody whom I respect might step forward with substantive passages from the docuмent, which help point up how terrible it is. Seriously, I'm willing to be shown why I should think it to be as terrible as some say that it is.
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How will SSPX respond to Amoris Laetitia?
The same way they respond to all the non-Catholic docuмents that come out of the Vatican. They'll criticize it and then go on as if it doesn't exist. Isn't this what all R&R do?
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iman: That docuмent by Pope Francis is terrible.
Can you point to specific parts of it which are terrible? I'm trying to plow through this very long docuмent now. Maybe I'm trying to read it too fast. But thus far anyway I haven't found anything "terrible." Help me out.
Hence it can no longer simply be said that all those in any “irregular” situations are living in a state of mortal sin and are deprived of sanctifying grace. More is involved here than mere ignorance of the rule. A subject may know full well the rule, yet have great difficulty in understanding “its inherent values” [?], or be in a concrete situation which does not allow him or her to act differently and decide otherwise without further sin.
There are other specific examples here:
Pope Francis Departs from Church Teaching in New Exhortation
www.onepeterfive.com/pope-francis-departs-from-church-teaching-in-new-exhortation/
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Thanks, Cantarella, that's certainly a start. Yes, troubling. My suspicion is, though, that some (trads) who write off this very lengthy docuмent have really not read its contents, and make snap judgments.
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Well, some of us might wait until you have read this lengthy docuмent, and tell us what you think it really means, and so preserve us from making snappy judgements!
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iman: That docuмent by Pope Francis is terrible.
Can you point to specific parts of it which are terrible? I'm trying to plow through this very long docuмent now. Maybe I'm trying to read it too fast. But thus far anyway I haven't found anything "terrible." Help me out.
Hence it can no longer simply be said that all those in any “irregular” situations are living in a state of mortal sin and are deprived of sanctifying grace. More is involved here than mere ignorance of the rule. A subject may know full well the rule, yet have great difficulty in understanding “its inherent values” [?], or be in a concrete situation which does not allow him or her to act differently and decide otherwise without further sin.
There are other specific examples here:
Pope Francis Departs from Church Teaching in New Exhortation
www.onepeterfive.com/pope-francis-departs-from-church-teaching-in-new-exhortation/
Thanks, Cantarella, that's certainly a start. Yes, troubling. My suspicion is, though, that some (trads) who write off this very lengthy docuмent have really not read its contents, and make snap judgments.
In addition to the article Cantarella posted above, here are a few more. So far, the majority I've seen are not by what we might consider full-fledged "Trads", but rather sort of conservative Novus Ordo. Just saying that, in that it seems unlikely that conservative N.O. types, who usually bend over backwards to excuse problems with the Conciliar popes, are unlikely to be making snap judgments against one. I haven't bothered to read these articles (so also can't vouch for them), but maybe the articles will have footnotes, to prove the problems are in the docuмent. (?)
I don't know if links work yet, so just remove any spaces I put in the links below.
http: // rorate-caeli.blogspot.com/ 2016/04/amoris-laetitia-in-conflict-with.html
'Amoris laetitia' in conflict with the Catholic Faith
http:// voiceofthefamily.com/ catholics-cannot-accept-elements-of-apostolic-exhortation-that-threaten-faith-and-family/
CATHOLICS CANNOT ACCEPT ELEMENTS OF APOSTOLIC EXHORTATION THAT THREATEN FAITH AND FAMILY
http:// remnantnewspaper.com /web/index.php/articles/item/2421-pope-francis-the-apostolic-exhortation-and-the-age-of-individual-conscience
Pope Francis, the Apostolic Exhortation and the Age of Individual Conscience
http:// www.cfnews.org/page88/files/eef697b31863ac4b1bb8405c418215e8-561.html
Exhortation: Francis Advances Situation Ethics - Subverts Moral Theology
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Cantarella quoted a portion of paragraph #301 above. Here is the whole of that paragraph for our instruction hopefully:
Mitigating factors in pastoral discernment
301. For an adequate understanding of the possibility and need of special discernment in certain “irregular” situations, one thing must always be taken into account, lest anyone think that the demands of the Gospel are in any way being compromised. The Church possesses a solid body of reflection concerning mitigating factors and situations. Hence it is can no longer simply be said that all those in any “irregular” situation are living in a state of mortal sin and are deprived of sanctifying grace. More is involved here than mere ignorance of the rule. A subject may know full well the rule, yet have great difficulty in understanding “its inherent values”,339 or be in a concrete situation which does not allow him or her to act differently and decide otherwise without further sin. As the Synod Fathers put it, “factors may exist which limit the ability to make a decision”.340 Saint Thomas Aquinas himself recognized that someone may possess grace and charity, yet not be able to exercise any one of the virtues well;341 in other words, although someone may possess all the infused moral 339 John Paul II, Apostolic Exhortation Familiaris Consortio (22 November 1981), 33: AAS 74 (1982), 121. 340 Relatio Finalis 2015, 51. 341 Cf. Summa Theologiae I-II, q. 65, art. 3 ad 2; De Malo, q. 2, art. 2. 233 virtues, he does not clearly manifest the existence of one of them, because the outward practice of that virtue is rendered difficult: “Certain saints are said not to possess certain virtues, in so far as they experience difficulty in the acts of those virtues, even though they have the habits of all the virtues”.342
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That docuмent by Pope Francis is terrible. What do you think the SSPX will now do ?
In contrast, what would Archishop Lefebvre have said?
I can tell you my priest today spoke strongly against it, I think it's a good litmus test at least for my chapel that they are still orthodox , I think if he were to ignore it or justify it in any way I would seriously think about leaving...can't speak for other chapels but for now I don't see any reason to leave my sspx chapel..I'd like to hear some other's take on this
Same for my chapel. There's hope yet!