Author Topic: How much control should a Trad chapel have over its members? (Read 8488 times)

Luker · « **Reply #10 on:** August 04, 2014, 04:33:02 PM »

Quote from: Matthew

As a perfect example, you have the common misconception (actively taught by Menzingen and company) that SSPX Catholics-in-the-pews owe a special "obedience" to Bishop Fellay, Fr. Rostand, etc.

No, they don't.

They owe obedience to the FAITH and to their local Ordinaries in the dioceses where they live.

We legitimately disobey our local Ordinaries because they are leading us away from the Faith. So we scurry around looking for a place to receive the Sacraments that will not harm our Faith. We find various safe harbors here and there.

The SSPX is merely operating with supplied jurisdiction, like all the other Trad groups. They have no special claim to obedience. They deserve our respect only insofar as they are fighting the good fight for the Faith itself. If that ever ceases, they will be worthless and have no God-based claims on our obedience whatsoever.

I was going to bring this up. As I understand it, we Catholics aren't supposed to be 'parish shopping' anyways right ? We are supposed to support our local parish that is where our legitimate pastor is. Obviously with the crisis being what it is, this is an option for very few of us. But perhaps with the crisis in the Church continuing on, some traditional clergy are forgetting that they are not our pastors, technically speaking ? That said, it is a bit difficult to balance trying to have a normal parish life for us traditional Catholics, in what amounts to not a parish but a life boat. Perhaps a good reminder for us to pray for our clergy.

Stubborn · « **Reply #11 on:** August 04, 2014, 04:47:24 PM »

Got it.

I see what you're saying now.

Of course you're right, they have no business using the Mass and sacraments as a weapon of sorts against resistance members.

If the priest is concerned about the resistance, then his primary duty is to look into the entire mess honestly with the salvation of souls in mind, so as to provide sound counsel to the sheep - and for his own welfare.

Stubborn · « **Reply #12 on:** August 04, 2014, 04:51:45 PM »

Quote from: Ambrose

FWIW, the CMRI gets an A grade on the points you brought up. They do not act in such ways.

The CMRI is a terribly screwed up Schuckardt group anyway, best to keep them out of any comparisons with the resistance or SSPX - they are in another world all their own.

Viva Cristo Rey · « **Reply #13 on:** August 04, 2014, 04:52:48 PM »

Obedience to the Pastor as long as it doesn't jeapardize our souls or
Make us an accessory to sin. If he preaches false teachings or does something
We must not lie, cover up or remain silent. Jesus is Truth.

2Vermont · « **Reply #14 on:** August 04, 2014, 05:46:44 PM »

Quote from: Matthew

Quote from: Ladislaus
Quote from: TKGS
Ladislaus's comment above is out of line.

That was a joke, but a joke that was intended to make a point.

Where's the line between legitimate authority and cult-like micromanagement / control?

Pastor (normally) does have legitimate authority to exercise on behalf of souls and for the good of the parish. Where does he go over the line? Not an easy black-and-white question.

That's why I started this thread.

There was another thread today about the Cebu City "Diktat" where the SSPX authorities warned that anyone promoting the Resistance would be denied the Sacraments.

It got me thinking; how far can a chapel morally go to protect itself against the "competition" -- and should there be there any "competition", properly speaking, between a Catholic chapel and another Catholic chapel?

Unless you have to competing CULTS which are merely herds of cattle owned and harvested by their respective warlords. If that is the case, then of course you want exclusivity, cut-throat competition, etc.

But in the Trad world, I think we should all have the LIBERTY OF CONSCIENCE to decide which Traditional Catholic chapel we think it's most prudent to attend.

Basically I'm all for a limited form of religious liberty and ecuмenism -- when applied strictly to Traditional Catholicism. We should be left to our own free will/judgement/conscience/virtue of prudence about which TRAD CATHOLIC group we will attend.

Because the Catholic Church was founded by Jesus Christ, and is the sole means of salvation - It alone is the Truth. But beyond that, which TRAD GROUP has the exclusive stamp of approval from Jesus Christ himself? None of them -- or all of them, depending on how you want to look at it

So all the things that apply to false religions (error has no rights, acquiescence to Catholic authority, etc.) DO NOT APPLY when you're talking about ONE TRAD GROUP vs ANOTHER. Get it?

I would agree with this as long as the groups were on the same page theologically, which I would think they would be if they are truly Trad. I don't think a Trad chapel should deny Sacraments to any Trad whether they are SSPX, Resistance or Sedevacantist.