Author Topic: How many priests and religious has the SSPX lost yet ? (Read 14045 times)

VinnyF · « **Reply #15 on:** March 16, 2014, 01:24:37 PM »

Quote from: hollingsworth

I saw Fr. Tim Pfeiffer's name on Traditio's list a couple of days ago. Did he finally join his brother in the resistance?

As of his last visit to our chapel, Fr Tim Pfeiffer was very clear that his brother was wrong and the priests of the resistance are intellectually dishonest and are doing a disservice to the faithful. Just in case you were not clear about his opinion or whether he was contemplating moving to the resistance.

VinnyF · « **Reply #16 on:** March 16, 2014, 01:26:53 PM »

Quote from: Nobody

Does anyone know how many priests and religious the SSPX has lost to the Resistance ? Is there any score or register being kept ? I know Traditio has put up a list, but I don't trust them. I'd rather double check elsewhere..

Since 2012 .. 2 - in the U.S. .. and counting.

VinnyF · « **Reply #17 on:** March 16, 2014, 01:28:48 PM »

Quote from: Wessex

The Society has always lost priests, that is why it took such a long time to pass the 500 mark. One would expect the new direction towards Rome would see changes in the type of candidate it is seeking. Also, I expect it has allowed for a continuing trickle of existing priests leaving while the new programme bites, as well as making provision for those that need neutralising. This all has to be seen in the light of Menzingen reversing ABL's dramatic reaction to the new church and wanting to blend in with those bodies on the fringes of the mainstream.

The Achbishop lamented at the time of the episcopal consecrations that half of the priests he ordained had left the Society. That included the 4 he dismissed for disobedience.

hollingsworth · « **Reply #18 on:** March 16, 2014, 02:39:03 PM »

Vinny:

Quote

As of his last visit to our chapel, Fr Tim Pfeiffer was very clear that his brother was wrong and the priests of the resistance are intellectually dishonest and are doing a disservice to the faithful. Just in case you were not clear about his opinion or whether he was contemplating moving to the resistance.

This is not quite how I heard it from Fr. J. Pfieffer's mouth to my ear. He seemed to be telling us some months back that his brother agrees with many of the issues raised by the resistance, but chooses for now to work from within the SSPX. So, perhaps, Fr. Tim has adjusted his earlier position, (as we understood it anyway), and is accusing resistance priests of "intellectual dishonesty." That would represent a sea change, wouldn't it? :thinking:

MaterDominici · « **Reply #19 on:** March 16, 2014, 03:04:25 PM »

Quote from: VinnyF

Quote from: hollingsworth
I saw Fr. Tim Pfeiffer's name on Traditio's list a couple of days ago. Did he finally join his brother in the resistance?

As of his last visit to our chapel, Fr Tim Pfeiffer was very clear that his brother was wrong and the priests of the resistance are intellectually dishonest and are doing a disservice to the faithful. Just in case you were not clear about his opinion or whether he was contemplating moving to the resistance.

You can't really draw much conclusions from such a broad statement. We visited here with Fr Hewko about 2-3 weeks after Fr T Pfeiffer was in the US last summer (August?). As Fr Timothy was the priest who married us, we were quite curious as to what he had to say about the Resistance. Fr Hewko's summary was that he agreed with the Resistance priests about almost everything except what the proper course of action for a Society priest should be.

VinnyF · « **Reply #20 on:** March 16, 2014, 03:20:09 PM »

Quote from: MaterDominici

Quote from: VinnyF
Quote from: hollingsworth
I saw Fr. Tim Pfeiffer's name on Traditio's list a couple of days ago. Did he finally join his brother in the resistance?

As of his last visit to our chapel, Fr Tim Pfeiffer was very clear that his brother was wrong and the priests of the resistance are intellectually dishonest and are doing a disservice to the faithful. Just in case you were not clear about his opinion or whether he was contemplating moving to the resistance.

You can't really draw much conclusions from such a broad statement. We visited here with Fr Hewko about 2-3 weeks after Fr T Pfeiffer was in the US last summer (August?). As Fr Timothy was the priest who married us, we were quite curious as to what he had to say about the Resistance. Fr Hewko's summary was that he agreed with the Resistance priests about almost everything except what the proper course of action for a Society priest should be.

His comment was that he felt their actions were divisive and were causing a rift among the faithful. In charity, he only said from the pulpit that they were off-the-reservation and on a different track than he was. But he elaborated on the three points he thought they were wrong on in discussions after Mass. So Fr. Hewko's statement could be technically true if he agreed with everything but 3 points .. assuming there was, say, a dozen points to be considered. But Fr. Hewko was being a bit over-broad if his intent was to demonstrate that Fr. Tim and the resistance were in lock step except for the execution of the movement.

untitled · « **Reply #21 on:** March 16, 2014, 04:05:22 PM »

SSPX Bishop: 1
SSPX Priests: 28
SSPX Religious: 0

ESTADÍSTICAS DE LA RESISTENCIA

OBISPO:

S.E.R. Monseñor Richard N. Williamson FSSPX (Inglaterra)

COMUNIDADES RELIGIOSAS:

1. Monasterio de la Santa Cruz OSB, Nova Friburgo, Brasil.
2. Monasterio de Nuestra Señora de la Fe y del Rosario (FBMV), Candeias, Bahía, Brasil.
3. Dominicos de Avrillé, Francia.
4. Monasterio de San José OSB, Santa Sofía, Boyacá, Colombia.
5. Convento Esclavas de María Reina de la Paz, Mato Grosso do Sul, Brasil.
6. Carmelo de San José, Alemania.

SACERDOTES :

1. Abraham, Steven FSSPX [1] (Inglaterra)
2. Abrahamowicz, Florian FSSPX [2] (Italia)
3. Altamira, Fernando FSSPX [3] prior (Argentina)
4. Arízaga, Rafael OSB (México)
5. Avril, Maurice fundador de la obra de Notre-Dame de Salérans, (Francia)
6. Bitzer, Gavin (E.U.A)
7. Brito, Jahir FBMV (Brasil)
8. Bruno OSB (Francia)
9. Bufe, Craig SSPX [4] (Irlanda)
10. Cardozo, Ernesto FSSPX [5] (Argentina)
11. Chazal, Francois FSSPX [6] (Francia)
12. Dardis, Brendan O.S.B. (E.U.A.)
13. de Mérode, Roland FSSPX [7], prior (Francia)
14. de Sainte-Marie d’Agneau, Hubert FSSPX [8] (Francia)
15. Dominic Mary of the Pillar OP (E.U.A.)
16. Elijah OFM (Asia)
17. Faure, Jean Michel FSSPX [9] (Francia)
18. Fuchs, Martin FSSPX [10] (Austria)
19. Girouard, Patrick FSSPX [11] (Canadá)
20. Gruner, Nicholas (Canadá)
21. Hewko, David FSSPX [12] (E.U.A.)
22. Iglesias, Juan Antonio (España)
23. Joaquim Daniel Maria de Sant’Ana FBVM (Brasil)
24. Kramer, Paul (Irlanda)
25. Makarios (Brasil)
26. Méramo, Basilio FSSPX [13] (Colombia)
27. N’dong, Pierre-Célestin FSSPX [14] (Gabón)
28. Nariai, John (Japón)
29. O'Connor, John (E.U.A)
30. Ortiz, Juan Carlos FSSPX [15](Colombia)
31. Pfeiffer, Joseph FSSPX [16] (E.U.A.)
32. Picot, Rémi FSSPX [17] (Francia)
33. Pinaud, Nicolas FSSPX [18] (Francia)
34. Raffali (Francia)
35. Raja, Pancras (India)
36. Ribas, Ramiro (España)
37. Ringrose, Ronald (E.U.A.)
38. Rioult, Olivier FSSPX [19] (Francia)
39. Ruiz, Hugo FSSPX [20] (México)
40. Salenave, Mathieu FSSPX [21] (Francia)
41. Sauer, Frank FSSPX [22] (Alemania)
42. Tomás de Aquino OSB (Brasil)
43. Trauner, Arnold FSSPX [23] (Austria)
44. Trincado, René FSSPX [24] (Chile)
45. Vargas, Arturo FSSPX [25] (México)
46. Vignalou, Pierre FSSPX [26] (Francia)
47. Voigt, Richard SDB (E.U.A.)
48. Weinzierl, Hermann FSSPX [27] (Alemania)
49. Zaby, Bernhard FSSPX [28] (Alemania)
50. Pierre-Marie OP con
60. los otros 10 sacerdotes Dominicos de Avrillé (7 de Francia, 2 de E.U.A., 1 de Polonia)

MIEMBROS DE LA FSSPX: 29
NO MIEMBROS DE LA FSSPX: 32

NACIONALIDADES:

Francia: 21
E.U.A.: 10
Alemania: 3
Brasil: 4
Méjico: 3
Argentina: 2
Austria: 2
Canadá: 2
Colombia: 2
España: 2
Inglaterra: 2
Chile: 1
Gabón: 1
Japón: 1
India: 1
Italia: 1
Irlanda: 1
Polonia: 1
Indeterminado: 1

http://nonpossumus-vcr.blogspot.com/p/estadisticas-de-la-resistencia-obispos-s.html

hollingsworth · « **Reply #22 on:** March 16, 2014, 04:25:09 PM »

mater dominici:

Quote

Fr Hewko's summary was that he (Fr. Tim) agreed with the Resistance priests about almost everything except what the proper course of action for a Society priest should be.

This is exactly what we have heard. Yet Vinny seems to be telling us that Fr. T. Pfieffer stands four square with the Society. That's not the way we understand it. His disagreement with the Resistance is basically tactical, not ideological. He sees clearly what is wrong with the neo-sspx, but chooses for the time being to struggle from within. Fr. Joe Pfeiffer has never said any differently, and he comes to our "resistance" community at least once a month, sometimes twice.

VinnyF · « **Reply #23 on:** March 16, 2014, 05:45:26 PM »

Quote from: untitled

SSPX Bishop: 1
SSPX Priests: 28
SSPX Religious: 0

ESTADÍSTICAS DE LA RESISTENCIA

OBISPO:

S.E.R. Monseñor Richard N. Williamson FSSPX (Inglaterra)

COMUNIDADES RELIGIOSAS:

1. Monasterio de la Santa Cruz OSB, Nova Friburgo, Brasil.
2. Monasterio de Nuestra Señora de la Fe y del Rosario (FBMV), Candeias, Bahía, Brasil.
3. Dominicos de Avrillé, Francia.
4. Monasterio de San José OSB, Santa Sofía, Boyacá, Colombia.
5. Convento Esclavas de María Reina de la Paz, Mato Grosso do Sul, Brasil.
6. Carmelo de San José, Alemania.

SACERDOTES :

1. Abraham, Steven FSSPX [1] (Inglaterra)
2. Abrahamowicz, Florian FSSPX [2] (Italia)
3. Altamira, Fernando FSSPX [3] prior (Argentina)
4. Arízaga, Rafael OSB (México)
5. Avril, Maurice fundador de la obra de Notre-Dame de Salérans, (Francia)
6. Bitzer, Gavin (E.U.A)
7. Brito, Jahir FBMV (Brasil)
8. Bruno OSB (Francia)
9. Bufe, Craig SSPX [4] (Irlanda)
10. Cardozo, Ernesto FSSPX [5] (Argentina)
11. Chazal, Francois FSSPX [6] (Francia)
12. Dardis, Brendan O.S.B. (E.U.A.)
13. de Mérode, Roland FSSPX [7], prior (Francia)
14. de Sainte-Marie d’Agneau, Hubert FSSPX [8] (Francia)
15. Dominic Mary of the Pillar OP (E.U.A.)
16. Elijah OFM (Asia)
17. Faure, Jean Michel FSSPX [9] (Francia)
18. Fuchs, Martin FSSPX [10] (Austria)
19. Girouard, Patrick FSSPX [11] (Canadá)
20. Gruner, Nicholas (Canadá)
21. Hewko, David FSSPX [12] (E.U.A.)
22. Iglesias, Juan Antonio (España)
23. Joaquim Daniel Maria de Sant’Ana FBVM (Brasil)
24. Kramer, Paul (Irlanda)
25. Makarios (Brasil)
26. Méramo, Basilio FSSPX [13] (Colombia)
27. N’dong, Pierre-Célestin FSSPX [14] (Gabón)
28. Nariai, John (Japón)
29. O'Connor, John (E.U.A)
30. Ortiz, Juan Carlos FSSPX [15](Colombia)
31. Pfeiffer, Joseph FSSPX [16] (E.U.A.)
32. Picot, Rémi FSSPX [17] (Francia)
33. Pinaud, Nicolas FSSPX [18] (Francia)
34. Raffali (Francia)
35. Raja, Pancras (India)
36. Ribas, Ramiro (España)
37. Ringrose, Ronald (E.U.A.)
38. Rioult, Olivier FSSPX [19] (Francia)
39. Ruiz, Hugo FSSPX [20] (México)
40. Salenave, Mathieu FSSPX [21] (Francia)
41. Sauer, Frank FSSPX [22] (Alemania)
42. Tomás de Aquino OSB (Brasil)
43. Trauner, Arnold FSSPX [23] (Austria)
44. Trincado, René FSSPX [24] (Chile)
45. Vargas, Arturo FSSPX [25] (México)
46. Vignalou, Pierre FSSPX [26] (Francia)
47. Voigt, Richard SDB (E.U.A.)
48. Weinzierl, Hermann FSSPX [27] (Alemania)
49. Zaby, Bernhard FSSPX [28] (Alemania)
50. Pierre-Marie OP con
60. los otros 10 sacerdotes Dominicos de Avrillé (7 de Francia, 2 de E.U.A., 1 de Polonia)

MIEMBROS DE LA FSSPX: 29
NO MIEMBROS DE LA FSSPX: 32

NACIONALIDADES:

Francia: 21
E.U.A.: 10
Alemania: 3
Brasil: 4
Méjico: 3
Argentina: 2
Austria: 2
Canadá: 2
Colombia: 2
España: 2
Inglaterra: 2
Chile: 1
Gabón: 1
Japón: 1
India: 1
Italia: 1
Irlanda: 1
Polonia: 1
Indeterminado: 1

http://nonpossumus-vcr.blogspot.com/p/estadisticas-de-la-resistencia-obispos-s.html

THOSE WHO DISAGREE WITH THE RESISTANCE
600 SSPX Priests
3 BISHOPS
MANY OTHER BENEDICTINES, DOMINICANS, SSPX SISTERS, SSPX TERTIARIES

... and your point is?

VinnyF · « **Reply #24 on:** March 16, 2014, 05:51:50 PM »

Quote from: hollingsworth

mater dominici:
Quote
Fr Hewko's summary was that he (Fr. Tim) agreed with the Resistance priests about almost everything except what the proper course of action for a Society priest should be.

This is exactly what we have heard. Yet Vinny seems to be telling us that Fr. T. Pfieffer stands four square with the Society. That's not the way we understand it. His disagreement with the Resistance is basically tactical, not ideological. He sees clearly what is wrong with the neo-sspx, but chooses for the time being to struggle from within. Fr. Joe Pfeiffer has never said any differently, and he comes to our "resistance" community at least once a month, sometimes twice.

In fairness T., anyone that stands 'four square' in allegiance to anyone but God is misled. As I am sure you do not stand 'four square' in agreement with everything each resistance priest has ever said or done, I am sure that there are things Fr. Tim P has issues with pertaining to how things were handled, particularly on a disciplinary level. But I believe that there is where his problem ends. If the foundation of the resistance is predicated on disciplinary issues (which I believe it is) and not on solid conflicts of faith, then the division it has caused is not warranted.

Sigfrid · « **Reply #25 on:** March 16, 2014, 06:04:14 PM »

unititle's list is inflated with a bunch of independents and SSPX priests who have not taken any public stance as well as priests who left the society for other reasons well before the current crisis like Fr Abrahamowicz who joined the IMBC (Euro-sedes). Might as well include "the nine" on that list as well with the bar so low for being counted as "resistance".

Matthew · « **Reply #26 on:** March 16, 2014, 06:10:48 PM »

Quote from: VinnyF

Quote from: hollingsworth
mater dominici:
Quote
Fr Hewko's summary was that he (Fr. Tim) agreed with the Resistance priests about almost everything except what the proper course of action for a Society priest should be.

This is exactly what we have heard. Yet Vinny seems to be telling us that Fr. T. Pfieffer stands four square with the Society. That's not the way we understand it. His disagreement with the Resistance is basically tactical, not ideological. He sees clearly what is wrong with the neo-sspx, but chooses for the time being to struggle from within. Fr. Joe Pfeiffer has never said any differently, and he comes to our "resistance" community at least once a month, sometimes twice.

In fairness T., anyone that stands 'four square' in allegiance to anyone but God is misled. As I am sure you do not stand 'four square' in agreement with everything each resistance priest has ever said or done, I am sure that there are things Fr. Tim P has issues with pertaining to how things were handled, particularly on a disciplinary level. But I believe that there is where his problem ends. If the foundation of the resistance is predicated on disciplinary issues (which I believe it is) and not on solid conflicts of faith, then the division it has caused is not warranted.

Well that's not surprising, as this is coming from you.

You're one of those accordista types. You remind me of John McFarland or others like him.

You don't understand it, you don't want to understand it, etc. You give no acknowledgement whatsoever of the real problems in the SSPX today. And I'm not just talking about disciplinary issues. I'm talking about openness to the modern world, Vatican II, the Conciliar Church, etc.

I'm talking about priests ordained in 2001 that are already speaking differently from what they were taught in the seminary.

People all over the world are noticing these things -- on their own -- even though there is no charismatic personality doing the convincing. It's people independently coming to the same conclusions. People in Europe, North America, South America, Australia, Asia -- did I leave any inhabited continents out?

One of the biggest Resistance supporters in my area came to his first Resistance-affiliated Mass without ever having met Fr. Pfeiffer, Fr. Hewko, or Bishop Williamson. This man was not swayed by anyone's rhetoric or strong personality. He simply did his homework, and didn't want to be a part of the new SSPX.

None of this strong evidence do you acknowledge.

MaterDominici · « **Reply #27 on:** March 16, 2014, 06:14:11 PM »

Quote from: Sigfrid

unititle's list is inflated with a bunch of independents

It splits them out at the bottom.

MIEMBROS DE LA FSSPX: 29
NO MIEMBROS DE LA FSSPX: 32

But, I wouldn't discount the departure of a priest who was previously covering an SSPX Mass location and now is not. (I don't know how many this applies to.) Except on rare occassion, the only priest we ever have at our SSPX chapel is someone who is not a member of the SSPX.

When Fr Ringrose stopped working with the Society, the SSPX established a new Mass location in that area, so it certainly shows that some of these priests weren't all that "independent".

Quote

and SSPX priests who have not taken any public stance

Who are you referring to?

VinnyF · « **Reply #28 on:** March 16, 2014, 06:15:38 PM »

Quote from: Matthew

Quote from: VinnyF
Quote from: hollingsworth
mater dominici:
Quote
Fr Hewko's summary was that he (Fr. Tim) agreed with the Resistance priests about almost everything except what the proper course of action for a Society priest should be.

This is exactly what we have heard. Yet Vinny seems to be telling us that Fr. T. Pfieffer stands four square with the Society. That's not the way we understand it. His disagreement with the Resistance is basically tactical, not ideological. He sees clearly what is wrong with the neo-sspx, but chooses for the time being to struggle from within. Fr. Joe Pfeiffer has never said any differently, and he comes to our "resistance" community at least once a month, sometimes twice.

In fairness T., anyone that stands 'four square' in allegiance to anyone but God is misled. As I am sure you do not stand 'four square' in agreement with everything each resistance priest has ever said or done, I am sure that there are things Fr. Tim P has issues with pertaining to how things were handled, particularly on a disciplinary level. But I believe that there is where his problem ends. If the foundation of the resistance is predicated on disciplinary issues (which I believe it is) and not on solid conflicts of faith, then the division it has caused is not warranted.

Well that's not surprising, as this is coming from you.

You're one of those accordista types. You remind me of John McFarland or others like him.

You don't understand it, you don't want to understand it, etc. You give no acknowledgement whatsoever of the real problems in the SSPX today. And I'm not just talking about disciplinary issues. I'm talking about openness to the modern world, Vatican II, the Conciliar Church, etc.

I'm talking about priests ordained in 2001 that are already speaking differently from what they were taught in the seminary.

People all over the world are noticing these things -- on their own -- even though there is no charismatic personality doing the convincing. It's people independently coming to the same conclusions. People in Europe, North America, South America, Australia, Asia -- did I leave any inhabited continents out?

One of the biggest Resistance supporters in my area came to his first Resistance-affiliated Mass without ever having met Fr. Pfeiffer, Fr. Hewko, or Bishop Williamson. This man was not swayed by anyone's rhetoric or strong personality. He simply did his homework, and didn't want to be a part of the new SSPX.

None of this strong evidence do you acknowledge.

Matthew, hopefully you are not lawyer if this post passes for evidence. Can you point me to a fairly concise list of evidence that doesn't include flying saucers?

VinnyF · « **Reply #29 on:** March 16, 2014, 06:19:03 PM »

Quote from: VinnyF

Quote from: Matthew
Quote from: VinnyF
Quote from: hollingsworth
mater dominici:
Quote
Fr Hewko's summary was that he (Fr. Tim) agreed with the Resistance priests about almost everything except what the proper course of action for a Society priest should be.

This is exactly what we have heard. Yet Vinny seems to be telling us that Fr. T. Pfieffer stands four square with the Society. That's not the way we understand it. His disagreement with the Resistance is basically tactical, not ideological. He sees clearly what is wrong with the neo-sspx, but chooses for the time being to struggle from within. Fr. Joe Pfeiffer has never said any differently, and he comes to our "resistance" community at least once a month, sometimes twice.

In fairness T., anyone that stands 'four square' in allegiance to anyone but God is misled. As I am sure you do not stand 'four square' in agreement with everything each resistance priest has ever said or done, I am sure that there are things Fr. Tim P has issues with pertaining to how things were handled, particularly on a disciplinary level. But I believe that there is where his problem ends. If the foundation of the resistance is predicated on disciplinary issues (which I believe it is) and not on solid conflicts of faith, then the division it has caused is not warranted.

You're one of those accordista types. You remind me of John McFarland or others like him.

... and for the record, I am NOT for an accord.